Does any one think that The Tao Te Ching is about writing poetry?

[Boundlesscostfairy]

I came to this realization last night.. that not only is the Tao Te Ching a script of poetry.. but also that it describes precisely what poetry is..how to create it and how to disband away from things and that what the way is, IS Poetry!

[Stosh]

Can't be, It says nothing about Nantucket. 

[Marblehead]

Or even a sleigh ride.

 

[Stosh]

28 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Or even a sleigh ride.

 

You have psychic ability !  How the heck did you know I was thinking about Melville !!! earlier. Wow. ( not in this thread , but certainly in the other , and was going to drag out a favorite passage. )

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I have powers beyond imagination.

 

But actually, you mentioning Nantucket brought to my mind the album by Mountain, Nantucket Sleighride.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Stosh]

Never heard that before, I was thinking more of the famous lass of many poems who came from nantucket. 

Different past, differing associations.

[Stosh]

I suppose I agree a bit about the poetic nature of the writing . It uses various techniques to draw the parts into a unified whole, relies on some participation by the reader. And some passages are gratuitous. 

The proofs or rationale is essentially intuitive like an assessment of ones life. 

[Lost in Translation]

I'm not sure about poetry. I always thought the Tao Te Ching was about murder/mysteries, or perhaps spy novels. ;-)

[Stosh]

There is the possibility that it was intended as entirely sarcastic too.

[Stosh]

I dont know if the story is true, but heard that a copy was given to some of the early european visitors... and so its possible that , at the time, they considered it to be detrimental to societal order.

Here guys, chew on this! 

[Marblehead]

Well, I;'m sure that in the Chinese it is pretty poetic.  Not so much in English.

 

[Rickie]

15 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

I came to this realization last night.. that not only is the Tao Te Ching a script of poetry.. but also that it describes precisely what poetry is..how to create it and how to disband away from things and that what the way is, IS Poetry!

 

Poetry or not does it change it's value?  Other than an interesting discussion, that may or may not have value does it matter?

[Lost in Translation]

Tao Te Ching makes a great coffee table book. It's an excellent party starter.

 

Now Hagakure, that's poetry!

[idquest]

Have you heard somebody reading out loud DDJ in Chinese? It is like nails being hit by a hammer in your head. If this is your idea of poetry then sure, why not.

[Stosh]

Maybe its like the sound of one hand clapping.  Much is left to the imagination. 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that stuff.

 

 

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that stuff.

 

 

Quite right. According to Classical chinese music , there are the three musical sounds . 

Ping

Bang 

and Clash

And this is why they are known to have said that -the three sounds deafen the ear.  

 

[Marblehead]

I have some Chinese as well as Korean music, traditional, in my collection and for sure one must empty one's mind in order to find the beauty in the music.

 

 

[doc benway]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:42 PM, Boundlesscostfairy said:

I came to this realization last night.. that not only is the Tao Te Ching a script of poetry.. but also that it describes precisely what poetry is..how to create it and how to disband away from things and that what the way is, IS Poetry!

 

I agree with you.

Spirituality is poetry, life is poetry.

The Daodejing is many things to many people.

Even though it was written 2000 years ago it is still very much alive and flexible.

I think that is in part due to the Chinese language and in part due to the wisdom of the writings.

Most importantly it is because we come to it with all of our conditioning, experience, questions, desires, fears, and we each derive our own unique interpretation and expression of the simple yet profound truths it offers.

[dawei]

I've delayed any comment to think more as I know my gut reaction but I'm still stuck with my gut reaction.

 

IN a word, YES.

 

I had this same thought when I first encountered the text.. why ?

 

As an oral text in any tradition, rhythm is easier to remember.

 

I accept the explanation of Hendricks who has spent his studies on the Guodian and MWD versions.   That the original had rhythm.

 

That will please Marblehead who is a Hendrick's supporter 

 

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

4 hours ago, dawei said:

I've delayed any comment to think more as I know my gut reaction but I'm still stuck with my gut reaction.

 

IN a word, YES.

 

I had this same thought when I first encountered the text.. why ?

 

As an oral text in any tradition, rhythm is easier to remember.

 

I accept the explanation of Hendricks who has spent his studies on the Guodian and MWD versions.   That the original had rhythm.

 

That will please Marblehead who is a Hendrick's supporter 

 

 

 

Do you have any links to these Tao Te Chings that have a flow or rythm?

[OldDog]

I totally buy into the notion of TTC as poetry; though I admit it takes some understanding. I am sure that much is lost in translation, depending on the art of the translator. The sense of rhyme and rhythm from the original Chinese, I would imagine, would be hard to preserve. Such things likely have a cultural aesthetic that does not translate. Still, I think the notion of poetry, as we understand it in the west, shows up in various interpretations of TTC.

 

Recently, I obtained a copy of David Hinton's Classical Chinese Poetry: An Anthology and have been enjoying it very much. Clearly he considered TTC as poetry, since he included excerpts in his work. My original motivation for obtaining Hinton's anthology was not for the poetry but to get a take on how someone would approach translation of Chinese when the motivation was not from a study of philosophy. 

[dawei]

19 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Do you have any links to these Tao Te Chings that have a flow or rythm?

 

Not really as the references that Hendricks makes is based on the Guodian bamboo version which is written in Chu script... but if you got his book, you could see his examples. 

[OldDog]

The Heaven and Earth join,

And the sweet rain falls,

Beyond the command of men,

Yet evenly upon all. 

       - TTC 32 (Lin Yutang)

 

Now that's poetic! 

[Marblehead]

Yep.  I'm sure the original Chinese sounds very much more poetic than does the various translations into other, especially Western, languages.