What came first a belief or an experience?

[Shad282]

Hello, i was wondering what came first, a belief or an experience. some people say that we experience first and according to what we experience we form a belief. and other people say, that the belief creates our reality and thus our experience. 

 

Some may argue as kids we experience and then we start building beliefs according to what we feel. but other do argue that we come to the world with beliefs, that can be considered Karma inherited from our past life.

 

What do you think, what came first?

Can we experience something that we have opposite belief of ?

What are the determinants of our reality ? what determines what we experience or situations that arises in our reality?

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Shad282

[Marblehead]

I would go with experience first then establishment of beliefs.

 

[Jonesboy]

1 hour ago, Shad282 said:

What do you think, what came first?

Experience most definitely first.

1 hour ago, Shad282 said:

Can we experience something that we have opposite belief of ?

If you don’t believe in the teachings how can you ever let go enough to put in the commitment to practice? To let go enough to ever experience what others/masters have written about? You can’t, so if you don’t have Bhakti chances are you will never really try and just look for confirmation on why it is all junk, etc.

[s1va]

Karma is not belief.  It's the essence of our past experiences that we inherit as Karma.

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well the tao exists at the same time we experience..

 

But our beliefs are forms or faith based based on the Tao..

 

So the experience happens at the same time as beliefs form!

[Shad282]

20 hours ago, s1va said:

Karma is not belief.  It's the essence of our past experiences that we inherit as Karma.

inherited as beliefs in the new life. 

 

15 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Well the tao exists at the same time we experience..

 

But our beliefs are forms or faith based based on the Tao..

 

So the experience happens at the same time as beliefs form!

 

can you elaborate more ?

21 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I would go with experience first then establishment of beliefs.

 

can't we inherit a collective belief about something or a perspective from society or parents without having an experience about it ?

[Shad282]

22 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

Experience most definitely first.

If you don’t believe in the teachings how can you ever let go enough to put in the commitment to practice? To let go enough to ever experience what others/masters have written about? You can’t, so if you don’t have Bhakti chances are you will never really try and just look for confirmation on why it is all junk, etc.

but our experience is based upon our perspective. because the same thing can be experienced differently by different people. so what determines how we experience the situation or stuff ? isn't it beliefs ?

[Jonesboy]

9 minutes ago, Shad282 said:

but our experience is based upon our perspective. because the same thing can be experienced differently by different people. so what determines how we experience the situation or stuff ? isn't it beliefs ?

 

No it isn't beliefs but our own unique obstructions.

 

People can experience the same situation like you mentioned. One would be oh, no big deal while another could get filled with rage. That is a perfect example where we get caught up in our own issues.

 

If you have no obstruction for the issue to hit upon, one is left with peace of mind.

 

That is what spiritual practices are all about, working on those issues and letting them go so that one isn't caught up in the local mind.

[s1va]

34 minutes ago, Shad282 said:

inherited as beliefs in the new life. 

 

What we inherit are called Vasanas.  These are nothing but habitual tendencies that we carry over from the past. 

 

Check out the Buddhist description below.  The wiki link below has the definition of the term from Hinduism and Advaita Vedanta also.

 

Quote

Keown (2004) defines the term generally within Buddhism as follows:

"vāsanā (Skt.). Habitual tendencies or dispositions, a term, often used synonymously with bīja (‘seed’). It is found in Pāli and early Sanskrit sources but comes to prominence with the Yogācāra, for whom it denotes the latent energy resulting from actions which are thought to become ‘imprinted’ in the subject's storehouse-consciousness (ālaya-vijñāna). The accumulation of these habitual tendencies is believed to predispose one to particular patterns of behaviour in the future."^[2]

Sandvik (2007: unpaginated) states that:

... bag chags, in Sanskrit vāsanā. This word is used a lot in presentations about karma. It means habitual tendencies, subtle inclinations that are imprinted in the mind, like a stain. For example, if someone smokes, there will be a habitual tendency for an urge to smoke every day, usually around the same time. There are bigger picture bag chags, such as why some people are kind by nature, and others are cruel; it's the tendency to behave in a certain way that will trigger similar actions in future, reinforcing the bag chags.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vāsanā

[Boundlesscostfairy]

3 hours ago, Shad282 said:

inherited as beliefs in the new life. 

 

 

can you elaborate more ?

can't we inherit a collective belief about something or a perspective from society or parents without having an experience about it ?

Well the tao is the first/only thing.. 

 

So all experiences are tao..

 

So although people can have different perceptions(beliefs) they are all firmly rooted in knowledge.. rooted in the law of physics(tao)

 

So I'm saying that at the root, or well of the tao is that the first belief was also the first experience!

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, Shad282 said:

 

can't we inherit a collective belief about something or a perspective from society or parents without having an experience about it ?

Are you talking about learning experiences?  They are still experiences, aren't they?

 

No, I won't talk about collective consciousness here.

 

[七星門]

On 3/18/2018 at 3:29 PM, Shad282 said:

Hello, i was wondering what came first, a belief or an experience. some people say that we experience first and according to what we experience we form a belief. and other people say, that the belief creates our reality and thus our experience. 

 

We might say that first comes sense impressions from which we build a cohesive image of reality & how it functions. 

 

Insofar as our model of reality is dependent on the senses we might say that we are born with "beliefs" because the tools of reality construction define the parameters of our reality. 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

The question is.. are beliefs experiences..?

 

During the moment of your belief.. IS to experience that belief..

 

If we werent conscious of a belief it wouldn't exist!

[Boundlesscostfairy]

So consciousness is supreme..

 

Pure experience happened prior to beliefs.. but beliefs are an extension of experience..

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

The question is.. are beliefs experiences..?

 

During the moment of your belief.. IS to experience that belief..

 

If we werent conscious of a belief it wouldn't exist!

I think you have gone too far.  Back to the basics for you.  Yeah, and start all over again.

 

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

So consciousness is supreme..

 

Pure experience happened prior to beliefs.. but beliefs are an extension of experience..

Okay.  You have made up for that other post.  No need to go back to the basics.

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Lol.. just from one mind to another 😂

[MooNiNite]

I think experience is first, but as we grow older, our beliefs begin to shape our experience.

A lot of Buddhists compare themselves to children when talking about an enlightened state.

[ChiForce]

There are 3 paths to enlightenment according to the Buddhist cosmology.  I think is called the 3 vehicles...   In  THERAVADA AND HINAYANA, you learn about the process to become enlightened by reading, reciting, and studying the Buddhist scriptures.  In MAHAYANA, to become liberated and enlightened, you help others to release from suffering.  The middle path, is called the Pratyekabuddha....self realized Buddha enlightenment.  How?  They realize the teaching of the 4 noble truths and 8 fold paths by examining their own lives without to have studied the scriptures==self realized experiences.  You ask HOW??  LOL LOL....  There is the Samyaksambuddha.....they took the same path as the Pratyekabuddha but, instead of becoming a hermit and living in mountains, they decide to help others to become liberated.