Saints and Psychopaths

[Gerard]

Hi friends,

 

I recently came across this insightful and wonderful book which is available online as a PDF reading:

 

 

Everyone wallking this path should read this book especially those interested in attaining the highest level: enlightenment.

 

The following quote is worth its weight in gold:

 

"Buddhism has fewer psychopaths than other major religious traditions. This is partly because Buddhists have a clearer idea of what enlightenment is, and leaders are more likely to spot someone who is pretending to be enlightened. Also, Buddhism is outwardly comparatively boring. Psychopaths are more likely to be attracted to singing, dancing, love, light, miracles, and channeling. Usually psychopaths have a great deal of trouble sitting quiet and still. I appreciate the boring facade of Buddhism, as it is a great protection."

 

"There is one negative aspect to being intelligent or highly educated. The problem is that discursive and analytical thinking has a very negative effect on being able to develop a calm and concentrated mind. Intelligent and educated people are very prone to thinking about things. The essence of vipassana meditation is to develop a profound examination of objects of consciousness. Thinking is not observation. The more advanced your practice becomes, the

less logical or reasonable your objects of perception become. It is essential to develop the ability to profoundly examine and penetrate into objects of meditation without thinking about them. Intellectuals, as a group, progress in meditation more slowly and are less likely to be successful. However, I know several people who have a Ph D, MD or other highly educated status and have become enlightened.
Intelligence and education can have some advantages for a meditator such as understanding the potential of meditation and cultivating philosophical understanding, but you must develop the ability to suspend intellectual processes during the practice."

 

I want to say thanks to the person(s) who made this available as a free reading and also to the author, William L. Hamilton.

 

As always good luck and all the best in your journey.

 

Gerard

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Gerard

[Starjumper]

12 hours ago, Gerard said:

"Buddhism has fewer psychopaths than other major religious traditions. This is partly because Buddhists have a clearer idea of what enlightenment is, and leaders are more likely to spot someone who is pretending to be enlightened. Also, Buddhism is outwardly comparatively boring. Psychopaths are more likely to be attracted to singing, dancing, love, light, miracles, and channeling. Usually psychopaths have a great deal of trouble sitting quiet and still. I appreciate the boring facade of Buddhism, as it is a great protection."

 

I agree that Buddhism can be better than all the new age pablum we see these days, but apparently the author had not heard about Taoism.  Taoism has a much better focus on the process to achieve enlightenment, it just happens to be rather well hidden, or buried under all the BS put out by wannabe Taoist psycopaths.  The author is just plain wrong about intelligence being a barrier to enlightenment.   

 

I liked the picture on the cover:

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Starjumper

[Gerard]

Taoism has been remained obscure for a very long time (still is at some level) and possibly the author never heard of it or knew little about it.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taoism#Taoism_in_the_West

 

That book was written in 1995. I never heard of Taoism back then while I was familiar with Buddhism. Didn't practice anything either as I lived a purely material existence. 

 

Taoism also has its shortcomings, the major one is not clearly defining a way to attain the state of Tao (enlightenment). It often gets lost in the forest rather than finding a direct opening and getting out. 

 

No system is perfect.

 

Please do not be harsh with your words. Organised Buddhism is a different story though there are good apples and bad apples like in any other organisations...The Dharma is precious jewel and it's what counts the most because it's a Universal Law available to everyone for FREE. The only condition is that one must put the right effort and develop and maintain sustained concentration in order to remove all the defilements that cause aversion and craving: likes and dislikes. 

 

The intelligence thing is more about being less analytical of the whole process and more practical...less thinking and more action. This is how I see it and I think the author follows this premise.

 

Wasn't Wang Liping a young boy when he was picked up by three Wandering Taoists? Less conditioned social Mind and a more open Heart, hence easier learning and attaining deep insight. The right young human thinks less and makes a better student.

 

Be well!

 

[Starjumper]

Yes, I'm sorry about the harsh words, and thank you for the kind response, I was feeling a little bad about that so I edited out some right at the start.  I'll edit out more now.  I suppose it comes from being rather disappointed in the ways of the world and of human nature.

 

Personally I have no use for Buddhist dharma but I'm sure it comforts a lot of people.

 

I was 'damaged' as a boy   I had four younger brothers, and we were all 'smart'.  At the dinner table we used to have big arguments, with someone always playing devil's advocate, and the arguments included the most character assassination and yelling possible while not being kicked out of the room, which happened often enough, this was formative for my character.  Anyway, I found a local FB forum that encourages ranting and insulting so I'll work on just sticking to that.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Starjumper

[Jeff]

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

...

 

The intelligence thing is more about being less analytical of the whole process and more practical...less thinking and more action. This is how I see it and I think the author follows this premise.

 

Wasn't Wang Liping a young boy when he was picked up by three Wandering Taoists? Less conditioned social Mind and a more open Heart, hence easier learning and attaining deep insight. The right young human thinks less and makes a better student.

 

Be well!

 

 

I think your comment about having an open heart is more revelant and important than concern about intelligence. With clarity of mind, naturally comes intelligence, the difference is found in focusing on the moment and not worrying/day dreaming type thinking. All masters have razor sharp minds that are naturally quiet, not dull ones with no thoughts.

[shazlor]

Great quote and a true cover blurb, I shall assimilate this book next, cheers.

 

Stumbled upon this podcast a few weeks ago, relevant as the title is essentially ditto. Someone may find it interesting.

Spoiler

TL;DL - Around 19.30 - 23mins -

Sage: Will to meaning.

Psychopath: Strictly Will to power.

"At the fork in the road, look for the true seed"

Spoiler

¿Feel without feelings?

 

 

[Gerard]

The thing is that to fully open the heart one must practice like "hell," there is no other way around it. No magic spells, chakras, crystals and devas will do that for you ---> Right Effort.

 

From that book:

 

"One of my teachers, Tungpulu Sayadaw, practiced in a cave for thirty-nine years without lying down, and he emerged an Arahant." (p.91)

 

The mind keeps going deeper (you can see how your consciousness changes over time) with each stage of enlightenment while slowly the defilements drop dead like old leafs in Autumn.

 

Hard work pays off!

[Bindi]

23 minutes ago, Gerard said:

The thing is that to fully open the heart one must practice like "hell," there is no other way around it. No magic spells, chakras, crystals and devas will do that for you ---> Right Effort.

 

From that book:

 

"One of my teachers, Tungpulu Sayadaw, practiced in a cave for thirty-nine years without lying down, and he emerged an Arahant." (p.91)

 

The mind keeps going deeper (you can see how your consciousness changes over time) with each stage of enlightenment while slowly the defilements drop dead like old leafs in Autumn.

 

Hard work pays off!

 

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes:

 

“People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular."

― C.G. Jung

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Jeff]

5 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes:

 

“People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular."

― C.G. Jung

 

Pulling the subconscious into the conscious mind, and clearing the karma, issues and fears that made it subconscious. Leaving increasingly expanded clarity...
 

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, Daemon said:

That's a basic tenet of the Path of Light. The overwhelming majority of people fear the shadows that the Light reveals and they prefer to hide in the darkness of their pretended selves rather than to face the reality.

 

☮️

 

I would use the term light differently I think, the light that reveals my self is perhaps the light of consciousness, but following this light brings me to a place in my heart that is completely dark, where there are no shadows. Light as I understand it then begins to shine from within this dark place or "cave of the heart". 

 

In the abyss of this darkness [in the heart], in which the loving spirit has died to itself, there begin the manifestation of God and eternal life. For in this darkness there shines and is born an incomprehensible light, which is the son of God, in whom we behold eternal life.

 

- Jan van Ruysbroeck (13^th century mystic)

 

Quote

 

The “ground of the soul”, as it is referred to by Christian mystics, is the innermost part of man. It is the centre of our being, the point and source of all life. It is the cave of divine darkness, the krypta of the heart. Within it, the light of our true nature illuminates the whole universe like the sun and is revealed to us through beholding the hidden –en krypto.

 

In the infinite darkness of the cave of the heart, at the moment of mystical death, we will take part in the ascent of the inner light.

 

Excerpt from ch 7 Free Yourself of Everything: Radical Guidance in the Spirit of Zen and Christian Mysticism

By Wolfgang Kopp

 

 

 

[Bindi]

12 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Pulling the subconscious into the conscious mind, and clearing the karma, issues and fears that made it subconscious.

 

 

Yes, agreed.

 

12 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Leaving increasingly expanded clarity...
 

 

After passing through the darkness, the abyss, the chasm, the "divine void" within, sure. 

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon
to add link to The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage by Jan van Ruysbroeck

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, Daemon said:

I don't feel that our individual truths are that far apart Bindi, we may just be expressing the same thing in a different way. One of the things that's said about those of us who follow paths of the Light is that if there are two of us in the same room discussing something, there are three different opinions. I like to view that observation as a reflection of the fact that, despite all of us having a particular individual view, we're also known for our ability to reach consensus, which could be viewed as being the third opinion in the room. Incidentally, that in no way negates the other two individual truths.

 

I'm interested in your quote from Jan van Ruysbroeck, which doesn't really speak to me as it stands, without the wider context in which it was possibly written. Could you point me towards the source of that (if it exists and if you have it) please? Was it http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/asm/index.htm

 

The full Jan van Ruysbroeck quote can be found here in THE THIRD BOOK, CHAPTER I

"SHOWING THE THREE WAYS BY WHICH ONE ENTERS INTO THE GOD-SEEING LIFE."

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Bindi

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Bindi]

6 hours ago, Daemon said:

Why did you change your original reply from 

?

 

I researched it further to answer your question better regarding context for the quote. 

[Apech]

12 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

I researched it further to answer your question better regarding context for the quote. 

 

 

You don't seem to have mastered the off-the-cuff posting of opinion dressed up as authority that is the hallmark of DBs these days.

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Bindi]

2 minutes ago, Daemon said:

Thanks. I seem to remember that you'd also included a link to the relevant section of the book in which you'd come across that quote in an intermediate edit, if my memory serves me well. If so, would you mind reposting it or PMing it to me please, as I didn't have the leisure to read it at the time and I mistakenly failed to bookmark it?

 

The reason I ask is because I have a sense that the secondary source may have a misunderstanding of what the primary source was intending to convey and/or that my understanding of this is radically different because I sense the heart as an important centre from which the Light may appear to radiate (despite there being an seeming paradox in that assertion).

 

☮️

 

I referred to my earlier post which has the link to the book in it here 

but you can get the information you need from the van Ruysbroeck link. 

 

I'm interested to hear what you think his understanding of the light is, and how it compares to your understanding. 

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Daemon]

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Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, Daemon said:

If I were to accept your invitation, wouldn't I be placing myself in the position of a figure of authority (a guru; someone who imagines that their opinion is the only opinion that matters because they imagine that they (as an individual) are the source and therefore the priest of the Light)? I'd also be losing our direct connection by attempting to be the authority in interpreting the words of someone long-gone, who was writing in a lost language and in the context of being an integrated part of a brutally repressive patriarchal religious hierarchy.

 

It sounds to me like this (above) is actually an opinion which intrinsically discounts his point of view, which is an answer of sorts. 

 

2 hours ago, Daemon said:

What I'm doing here is I'm seeking to discover if our two individual (and axiomatically equally valid) perspectives allow for the 3rd perspective to emerge (see above) and for that to happen (if it is to happen) I need to really hear what you're saying. In this case, you've stated your perspective and cited 2 authors who seem (on my brief reading) to hold contradictory viewpoints, so I'm of the opinion that it might be better for me both to stay with your own experience and to refer to my first post on this thread with which you seemed not to agree?

 

If it's the case that you disagree with my understanding of the Light, which I've already illustrated by saying that

 

 

then all the more reason (from my perspective) for me to strive to understand what you're saying.

 

I'm hoping that makes sense to you?

 

☮️

 

I suspect we would deeply disagree on our understanding and expectation of light, for you light reveals shadows, but how can light reveal the darkness that I believe exists in the deepest reaches of our hearts, or prepare me to enter into that darkness? As it is I'm absolutely sure it's not the right tool for me, and I'm happy to leave it at that. 

[Daemon]

☮️

Edited October 5, 2018 by Daemon

[Gerard]

"In 1954, when U Nandiya heard that his teacher Jetavana Mingon Sayadaw had died, he walked many miles to pay his last respects to the body, which was guarded by a snake. It is said that only upon the arrival of U Nandiya did the snake depart."

 

Source: https://bit.ly/2pKmXuR

 

 

The Snake:

 

Mine is the wisdom of the ages.
I hold the key to the mysteries of life.
Casting my seeds on fertile ground
I nurture them with constancy and purpose.
My sights are fixed.
My gaze unchanging.
Unyielding, inexorable and deep
I advance with steady, unslackened gait,
The solid earth beneath me.


I am the SNAKE.

 

 

Philosopher, theologian, political wizard, wily financier-the Snake person is the deepest thinker and enigma of the Chinese cycle.

 

https://bit.ly/2pKlWTC (Chinese Zodiac info)

 

 

That explains why a snake was guarding the body of the deceased arahant.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Gerard