Passive, afraid to fight back because of karma?

[Nothing]

Hello everyone.

 

I'm very much into the buddhist practices and philosophy. But my problem is, I'm so afraid of karma that I dare to do someting. It's like fear of creating karma. Especially in my social interactions this has great effects. I don't want to hurt other people even when they attack me. I always remember then the quote from jesus where he said: "When someone someone slaps your right cheek, give him also the left cheek." I understand this I should remain confident with myself but also don't fight back. But sometimes I'm not sure if I don't should defend myself more or to show others more my borders.

 

Any advice on being afraid of remaining confident or defending myself because of the fear of hurting others or creating karma? And what is confidence from a spiritual perspective?

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

I`m no true-blue Buddhist, but seems to me you`re misapplying the concept of karma.  OK, do no harm.  I get that.  But what about harm to yourself?  You are entitled to your dignity, to be treated like a human being, to have reasonable boundaries about how other people are allowed to treat you.  Allowing yourself to be mistreated out of fear of creating karma...creates karma.  

 

The secret isn`t to go all ninja on other people.  You didn`t say much about your circumstances, but standing up for yourself likely doesn`t require hurting other people.  Most of the time it`s not necessary to raise our voices, call names, break arms.  It`s possible to be perfectly peaceful while radiating a loving don`t fuck with me vibe.  

[thelerner]

I like Liminals answer.  I think there is a middle ground, of stating your truth, even your feelings, in a way thats more philosophical and less attacking and leaving it at that.  Ie, state your truth and walk away, or rather stay, knowing you've expressed yourself. 

 

The real problem is often not the situation but 'back thoughts'.. reliving and re-analyzing an old situation over & over, instead of moving on.  For that, the difficult work of learning to quiet the mind and limit 'tail chasing' thoughts is needed.  I like the work of Barry Long for that.  He's got Youtubes.  

 

I'd recommend you practice disagreeing cheerfully with people next month.  Try it, see how it feels, disagreeing in a way that's kinda pleasant, ie 'I see where your coming from, its got some valid points.. but.. .  Even better if you have no dog in the race, that way you can be more relaxed and build work up to disagreeing about larger issues. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a couple weeks we'll have you

fist fighting with annoying strangers. 

Karma be damned..  kidding.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by thelerner

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, Nothing said:

I always remember then the quote from jesus where he said: "When someone someone slaps your right cheek, give him also the left cheek."

 

Jesus also said:  "Let him who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one".

 

Concerning karma, maybe it would be good for some bully's karma to be taken down by a citizen.  Maybe it would be good for your karma to be the one who takes him down and helps him with his karma.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Starjumper

[silent thunder]

The Compassionate Monk

 

 

A ship, on which two monks booked passage, was beset by pirates.

Standing passively to the sides the two monks, both highly trained and skilled in the energetic arts and the various martial styles did nothing as the pirates looted and filled bags with the belongings of the other passengers.

 

However, after settling their gains, the pirates then turned and began assaulting the passengers, intending to kill them to prevent the possibility of being caught later.

 

At this point, the compassionate monk stepped calmly out and slew every pirate on board.

 

When the scene was done and all the passengers calmed and treated, the brother of the compassionate monk approached rather horrified and asked.

 

"how could you abandon yourself to violence and to karma in such a way?"

 

"I was being compassionate to the pirates."  responded Compassionate

 

"by killing them?"  brother asked incredulously

 

"precisely.  I have developed training and skills to work with my karma.  Those poor souls would have been stained for countless generations.  I have prevented their karma and taken on my own, which I gladly and readily will settle."

 

So... was he compassionate in his actions?

 

I have no idea... who can know such things?!

It's my paraphrase of an old story that resonates whenever this topic comes up...

 

I'm going to the museum now.

I wish you calm and joy in your pursuits mate!

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by silent thunder

[Starjumper]

24 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

So... was he compassionate in his actions?

 

Yes.

 

 

24 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I have no idea... who can know such things?!

 

Me 

[Nothing]

Well, then... let's go in and win.

[thelerner]

In my book, nothing wrong with defending oneself, family or community, yet the roots and branches of karma are above my pay scale.

 

I'm egoic enough to rationalize fights I'm in as 'justified', but the truth is I have no ideas what dominoes I'm knocking over and what potential havoc I could be responsible for.  Fighting is like that, one is lighting a potentially very destructive fuse.  You don't know what your leaving in your wake.  So imo.. best be careful.. these days, I'll protect myself and take no pleasure in it.  Wasn't always that way. 

 

I'm no Christian, but as I recall soon after Jesus said  'Let him who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one',  he soon stated something like "Those who draw swords will die by swords".. something like that. 

 

 

[Nothing]

Yes, good warning. It's important to don't go too far and to take no pleasure in it.

[Miroku]

You cannot avoid creating karma. Doing nothing or just neutral actions creates neutral karma. As long as the ignorance of your real enlightened nature is present in your life you are going to continue creating more and more karma. Buddha has said avoid bad actions do good ones and master your mind. It is bad to attack someone but protecting is always good, be it yourself or loved ones. There is no need to hurt the ones who attack you especially if it is just a discussion (you dont have to call them idiots) but you can try to stand your ground. 

Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche's grandmother once fought with a monk who came for her son (Rinpoche's father) saying that he is a reincarnation of their master. She told him off as he was quite rude to her and didn't listen to her when she said that she will send him to them after the funeral is over and they even screamed insults at one another. Was it the best situation? No. Was she a person abiding by dharma? Yes (Rinpoche wrote it precisely how much he looked up to her and how realized she was).

If you look at the stories of some of the greatest masters of buddhism (be it vajrayana, zen or other) they usually could get pretty wild and often had "no nonsense" attitude.

Do not worry too much it does not help. Buddhism is in many ways a training where you go 999 times wrong so you can get it at least once right. You can do daily confessions and purification practices like 35buddhas or vajrasattva if you are so afraid. Find a teacher, start walking the path and it will be okay. You'll see.

[silent thunder]

I recall once, driving several people from a retreat around in my truck one evening.

 

The subject of conversation was about great teachers and healers setting up foundations, schools and clinics along with those accomplished masters who choose not to teach and avoid healing and others in general and why...

 

From the back seat, one person shared this and it still resonates.

 

"karma is karma... some avoid contact and withdraw from 'beneficial actions' as well as harmful, what are the reaching ends of a beneficial action?   Even good karma may bind one to the wheel of samsara." 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

karma is with everything you flow through and without..

 

But it is understood via the gut feeling and reaction..including the knot in the gut so to speak..

[Nothing]

Well, I've practised and thought about the advice you gave me since I've asked the question. First I have to say how appropriate all of your replies where. Therefor thank you all of you.

 

Here is how it worked so far. First I dived too agressive in a discussion, switched from defending myself to attacking, lost my temper and had pleasure in the fight. But all worked well, we handshaked figuratively after the fight. 

 

Then I was again more passive, also because I was a bit lazy and had no interested in discussing. But there are some people who don't stop until you rebuff them.

 

At the moment I'm again practising and it starts to have effect and make progress.

[9th]

Steve still needs a lot of help coming out of his little shell.

 

Wont you help him find out where oh where he went oh so wrong?

[9th]

1 hour ago, Nothing said:

Well, I've practised and thought about the advice you gave me since I've asked the question. First I have to say how appropriate all of your replies where. Therefor thank you all of you.

 

Here is how it worked so far. First I dived too agressive in a discussion, switched from defending myself to attacking, lost my temper and had pleasure in the fight. But all worked well, we handshaked figuratively after the fight. 

 

Then I was again more passive, also because I was a bit lazy and had no interested in discussing. But there are some people who don't stop until you rebuff them.

 

At the moment I'm again practising and it starts to have effect and make progress.

 

 

Steve - werent you the same guy that was so concerned about "attacking people anonymously"???

 

Then - pray tell - why are you hiding behind these sock puppets, doing the SAME EXACT THING that you are supposedly so concerned with?

 

Let me tell you something - you dont have to live in fear of your own inability to do things.  Dont be afraid.  Dont hide behind your little games.  Dont "attack people anonymously" and then whine about it in the same fucking breath.

 

Moreover, if someone extends a friendly hand - dont bite it off... especially when you have absolutely no fucking clue where it came from in the first place...  Thats how diseases can get spread!  Infections!  Sicknesses!  

 

and so forth.