Understanding lesser and greater yin/yang and their relationships

[asbc_tao]

Hi all,

I'm trying to understand the relationship between the lesser yin/yang and the greater yin/yang in the Wu Xing system. I know that the elements are arranged along the continuum like this:

 

Greater yin - Lesser yin - Neutral - Lesser yang - Greater yang

Water - Metal - Earth - Wood - Fire

 

I know there is something significant about the pairs Metal-Wood and Water-Fire. I'm trying to understand this better and any help would be appreciated. I know that the Kan-Li meditation focuses on exchanging the places of Water and Fire to reach their unity. And also that Metal and Wood house the spirits of Po and Hun respectively, which are the two aspects of the soul. Whereas the heart and kidneys house the Shen and Zhi. If Hun and Po combine to form the complete soul, what does the combination of Shen and Zhi generate? Is this perhaps the spirit? If so, what is the relationship between soul and spirit?

 

One thing that confuses me is that the animal symbols for Kan-Li (Fire-Water) meditation are actually those for the Wood and Metal elements - the green dragon and white tiger. So it looks like both the lesser and the greater yin/yang pairs are involved in Kan-Li steaming. Would somebody explain what their relationship is?

 

I found this quote from Michael Winn on the transformation that happens during the Kan-Li (lesser enlightenment):

"The Five vital organ spirits of heart-mind (xin) transmute into the Three primal soul forces (ling). These Three forces – Primal Water, Primal Fire, and Primal Earth – produce the Golden Elixir, the divine seed-egg, our Immortal Embryo, that will mature into our Inner Sage." (http://healingtaoretreats.com/retreat-listings/2017-3b-inner-sexual-alchemy-lesser-kan-li-michael-winn/)

 

Here's how I'm reading the quote: As the lesser yin/yang of Po and Hun (Metal and Wood) combine the five spirits are reduced to three primal forces (ling). At this point the combination shifts to the greater yin/yang of Li and Kan (Water and Fire), leading to the Golden Elixir and eventually the Inner Sage. Does this make sense to others?

 

In part I'm asking to understand my own emotional experience. A few years ago I went through intense periods of anger and grief, which I know are the imbalanced emotions of Hun and Po. After working through them, I began to see more clearly my attachments and fears (the emotions corresponding to the heart and kidneys - Shen and Zhi). Somehow these had been obscure before, and I wonder if this isn't because I was at the stage of the lesser Kan-Li enlightenment, where Hun and Po are at issue. 

 

Any input would be very helpful. Thanks. 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by asbc_tao

[voidisyinyang]

9 hours ago, asbc_tao said:

Hi all,

I'm trying to understand the relationship between the lesser yin/yang and the greater yin/yang in the Wu Xing system. I know that the elements are arranged along the continuum like this:

 

Greater yin - Lesser yin - Neutral - Lesser yang - Greater yang

Water - Metal - Earth - Wood - Fire

 

I know there is something significant about the pairs Metal-Wood and Water-Fire. I'm trying to understand this better and any help would be appreciated. I know that the Kan-Li meditation focuses on exchanging the places of Water and Fire to reach their unity. And also that Metal and Wood house the spirits of Po and Hun respectively, which are the two aspects of the soul. Whereas the heart and kidneys house the Shen and Zhi. If Hun and Po combine to form the complete soul, what does the combination of Shen and Zhi generate? Is this perhaps the spirit? If so, what is the relationship between soul and spirit?

 

One thing that confuses me is that the animal symbols for Kan-Li (Fire-Water) meditation are actually those for the Wood and Metal elements - the green dragon and white tiger. So it looks like both the lesser and the greater yin/yang pairs are involved in Kan-Li steaming. Would somebody explain what their relationship is?

 

I found this quote from Michael Winn on the transformation that happens during the Kan-Li (lesser enlightenment):

"The Five vital organ spirits of heart-mind (xin) transmute into the Three primal soul forces (ling). These Three forces – Primal Water, Primal Fire, and Primal Earth – produce the Golden Elixir, the divine seed-egg, our Immortal Embryo, that will mature into our Inner Sage." (http://healingtaoretreats.com/retreat-listings/2017-3b-inner-sexual-alchemy-lesser-kan-li-michael-winn/)

 

Here's how I'm reading the quote: As the lesser yin/yang of Po and Hun (Metal and Wood) combine the five spirits are reduced to three primal forces (ling). At this point the combination shifts to the greater yin/yang of Li and Kan (Water and Fire), leading to the Golden Elixir and eventually the Inner Sage. Does this make sense to others?

 

In part I'm asking to understand my own emotional experience. A few years ago I went through intense periods of anger and grief, which I know are the imbalanced emotions of Hun and Po. After working through them, I began to see more clearly my attachments and fears (the emotions corresponding to the heart and kidneys - Shen and Zhi). Somehow these had been obscure before, and I wonder if this isn't because I was at the stage of the lesser Kan-Li enlightenment, where Hun and Po are at issue. 

 

Any input would be very helpful. Thanks. 

 

 

Yin Zhenren #|H)\. 1615. Xingming gui zhi sã fisłH (Leading to the Core of Life).

Quote

Black Lead—the Water Tiger—is the root of the emission and development of Heaven and Earth.
Only then is there substance (zhi ) and qi.

Red Lead—the Fire Dragon—is the foundation of the emission and development of Heaven and Earth.
Only then is there qi and no substance.

 

http://neidanromania.proboards.com/thread/236

 

 

Quote

Cantong qi says: “Li-ji [central yang] daylight. Kan-wu [central yin] moon essence.” Therefore Li’s ji is like the dragon’s new moon qi, while Kan’s wu is like the tiger’s new moon qi. For wu and ji are the substance of the Yellow Court-True Earth. Because the Supreme Polarity divided they separately occupy the two substances of the dragon and the tiger.

 

So the heart is the sun that has moon but then the lung is also the sun as the left eye yang qi, and the kidney is the moon that has sun but the liver is the moon as the right eye yin qi.

 

This is how the dragon and tiger have yang and yin and vice versa. You have "water tiger" but then also "white tiger" and then you have "fire dragon" but also "green dragon."

 

The spirit is created from the qi.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[thelerner]

On 4/1/2018 at 1:43 AM, asbc_tao said:

..A few years ago I went through intense periods of anger and grief, which I know are the imbalanced emotions of Hun and Po. After working through them, I began to see more clearly my attachments and fears (the emotions corresponding to the heart and kidneys - Shen and Zhi). Somehow these had been obscure before, and I wonder if this isn't because I was at the stage of the lesser Kan-Li enlightenment, where Hun and Po are at issue. 

 

Any input would be very helpful. Thanks. 

 

 

Maybe.. in many traditions there's a point where an experienced practitioner must work though the dark midnight of the soul.  A period where you face despair- metaphysical and personal, and have to reconcile with them.   Paths leading out are nihilism, enlightenment, craziness.. or going back to normal life. 

 

 

Addon> FWIW this thread inspired me to create a new one on 'The Dark night of the Soul' int he Taoist section.

Edited April 6, 2018 by thelerner

[Kara_mia]

11 hours ago, asbc_tao said:

 And also that Metal and Wood house the spirits of Po and Hun respectively, which are the two aspects of the soul. Whereas the heart and kidneys house the Shen and Zhi. If Hun and Po combine to form the complete soul, what does the combination of Shen and Zhi generate? Is this perhaps the spirit? If so, what is the relationship between soul and spirit?

 

I found this quote from Michael Winn on the transformation that happens during the Kan-Li (lesser enlightenment):

"The Five vital organ spirits of heart-mind (xin) transmute into the Three primal soul forces (ling). These Three forces – Primal Water, Primal Fire, and Primal Earth – produce the Golden Elixir, the divine seed-egg, our Immortal Embryo, that will mature into our Inner Sage." (http://healingtaoretreats.com/retreat-listings/2017-3b-inner-sexual-alchemy-lesser-kan-li-michael-winn/)

 

Here's how I'm reading the quote: As the lesser yin/yang of Po and Hun (Metal and Wood) combine the five spirits are reduced to three primal forces (ling). At this point the combination shifts to the greater yin/yang of Li and Kan (Water and Fire), leading to the Golden Elixir and eventually the Inner Sage. Does this make sense to others?

 

 

 

In fact, according to Taoist treatises, the unborn body is acquired when a uniform and single soul ling gets into the palace of Qian (which is the head). Then there it divides into Hun and Po. The balance and interaction between Kan and Li transforms Hun and Po.

 

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2018-04-01 at 7:24 PM, thelerner said:

 Paths leading out is nihilism, enlightenment, craziness.. or going back to normal life. 

 

Riffing on a theme for the sake of further discussion, i think you nailed it from the start though.

 

I’m starting to see the predawn wee-hours of the soul and i went through all three, huge bunnyears on the ”enlightenment” part since i’m obviously not shooting bolts of lightning from my eyes and there have been no diamond and gemstone precipitations. A little dissappointed about that, no biggie.

 

But returning to the entrance of the cave, or reemerging into normal life, i think it might be a good sign if you did stumble over illusions, nihilism and crazy. They are huge deals, but belong in the cave: cling and be poisoned.

Even the cave has its limits.

 

But thats just a parenthesis.

 

Stoked about this thread!

Edited April 3, 2018 by Rocky Lionmouth
Fixing

[Gerard]

Good you ask that's important BUT...don't get too carried away by it. The elements are NOT THE SPIRIT/MIND. This is rule number 1.

 

The Mind goes beyond the yin/yang, sixiang (four phases), wuxing (5E) and the Bagua. One needs to practice with earnest to find this out. No books contain this information. 

 

When the spirit takes form or exists in the state of duality it absorbs/merges with the yin-yang and all its aspects/characteristics; once rebirth and karma are overcome ---> Returning to the Source, attaining the state of Tao, then duality is left behind and the spirit/mind is free. 

 

Until then maintain a state of complete balance, purify the mind from its defilements in order to achieve it because emotions stir the Mind and mess up the internal balance of the five elements making them too Yang, too much Fire. This and dampness another cause of internal disharmony mainly caused by poor/inadequate diet, which will also increase internal heat affecting negatively the flow of Qi in the Wood (Liver & Gallbladder). Lifestyle is the third factor: overwork/study, stress, living in the fast lane...

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Gerard