DSCB57 Posted April 2, 2018 Does anyone know how to contact any of GM Doo Wai's other high level students such as Sifu Dan LaRochelle and the Rizzo brothers? I wrote to Sifu LaRochelle via his website, but received no reply. Were there any others, apart from Sifu Terry Dunn who were trained to a high level in the Doo Family arts, and how many of them are still teaching or available for consultation? Are there any high level students of GM Doo Wai based in the EU? Thank you. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronMarshall Posted June 29, 2018 I've had similar experiences as you on this topic. I've talked to maybe a half dozen people on facebook; all who've messaged Dan LaRochelle at some point and only one or two people ever got a response. The one's who did get a response only got that single reply and nothing from their follow-ups. So apparently he does not care to return or reply to messages, to answer questions or to run his business with any level of competency or care. From a purely "business" analysis; WhiteTigerKungFu.com is a joke: Customer service? (i.e. reponse to messages about products) is zero. Fail. Quality of the goods? (i.e. 20-30 year old low-quality VHS clips transferred to digital for download) is very poor compared to quality of similar videos shot today with cell phone cameras. Very poor quality when compared with the current market and industry standard. Quality of instruction on the videos? (None. They're demonstration's Doo Wai made for his own clan and left it up to them to figure it out, which is also why six people performing the same Qigong set or form all look different from one another). Which is also why you have those same six instructors bickoring on the internet over which one is the right way to do it and each one trying to claim that they have secret knowledge from Doo Wai which is supposed to give them leverage of legitimacy. It doesn't. Pricing Structure of the goods? (People are apparently still clinging to the idea that a meditation or Kung Fu can have monetary value placed on it and that this style in particular is worth ten's of thousands of dollars). Completely laughable and ridiculous concept. Does the over all price reflect the quality of video? NO! Or the quality of instruction? NO! Or the quality of Customer Service and Interaction? NO! I've messaged LaRochelle 3 or 4 times personally over the past 4 or 5 years and have never got a response to any message. I've also messaged the Rizzo brothers via their website as I was in their area a couple years ago interested in swinging by for a private lesson and they never responded. I tried calling the phone number when I was there and a woman answered who could not help me with the "private lesson" information and asked me to call back on a different day. A day that I was no longer going to be in their neighborhood. So that was a bust. I've talked to 3 or 4 other guys who are supposed to be rather "high level" in the Bak Fu Pai world under Doo Wai and every conversation I've had with them is absolutely pointless. One guy tries to talk like a sage and answer every question with another more spiritual question; which doesn't play. Not even a little. Maybe it works when someone's asking you life advice, but not when you're asking simple straight forward questions. Let me give you an example. I asked him a simple question about Tibetan Lama Burning Palm. I asked if there was more to the system than the simple 9 meditations. His response was something along the lines of "before you can know the answer; you must seek to understand why you ask the question." Oh but it didn't stop there. He'd get me going on this whole "you have to go back to the beginning of it all" kind of thing. I assumed he meant the universe, right? 'Cuz we're talking about the Taoist influence on some of these arts. What he actually meant was the beginning design of human beings by alien's who put us here to fulfill a specific purpose and when I understand that purpose I will have attained the highest understanding of Qigong. No, I'm not kidding with you. This is a guy very close to Doo Wai. Now, I'm not trying to bash him or anything. I dig the whole "alien's brought humans to this planet" idea and I'm down for whatever beliefs people might have. But if you're even a remotely intelligent person; surely you can understand the absurdity of someone asking a straight forward question only to get a 40 minute long conversation about alien's being the source of human life. It doesn't wash. Why cant you just answer the most basic questions? I also remember asking him how many forms were in the Bak Fu Pai system only to get another long sagely conversation about how forms are meaningless and it's what we understand that matters; and to understand... you guessed it; you have to go back to the beginning. The beginning of human being's creation by alien's. Who knows, maybe the guy is just screwing with me. But again, a rational person would have to ask, why? Why can't you just answer the most basic and fundamental questions about your system? Is there something wrong with a guy knowing how many levels to Tibetan Lama Burning Palm there are? Or how many forms are in the system? Or why do they practice Flying Phoenix when there are supposed to be much stronger, simpler and more powerful healing methods in Bak Fu Pai? Another guy very close (and who is also a close friend of the previously mentioned fella) is so paranoid of anyone and everyone who asks him a question about Bak Fu Pai he absolutely refuses to answer you and instead accuses you of being a spy. Actually, he accused me of being a spy for the Rizzo Brothers. I'm not completely up to speed on the whole internal politics with these guys; but apparently they can't even get along with each other. Rizzo is the successor to Bak Fu Pai. For better or worse. Why does he need spies? What are these spies after? What does one of the Rizzo Brother's having a spy have to do with a simple question about White Tiger Bak Mei? He seems to be a likeable enough guy. We've had a dozen conversations. He's very willing to share and talk about another Kung Fu master he studies under. He talks about him all the time. Praises him deeply. More than willing to answer questions about that system. Its forms and training methods. But if you try to steer it back to Bak Fu Pai; YOU'RE A SPY! WHAT ARE YOU REALLY AFTER?! It's all so absurd and ridiculous. I think you really have to question a group of people who can't be honest within their own group; let alone anyone looking for a legitimate answers. I think I saw of these guys who has a video on YouTube literally accuse a guy of being butt hurt that he didn't get something for "free" when the guy asked if he could simply repost the same demo video he made without background music and instead allow people to hear the original audio - which looked to be of him teaching an application from Tibetan Lama Burning Palm. Most of these guys are so childish and defensive I can't imagine you getting anywhere with any of them so tread very carefully, buy some chapstick and plan to do a whole lot of butt kissing and stroking some ego's because that's about your only option. I wish you the best of luck on your endeavor and hope you find the answers you're seeking. And whether you do or not; be sure to come back and share your journey with the rest of us. 2 2 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Qi Posted June 29, 2018 Haha , classic Doo Wai drama. When will all the nonsense cease around this stuff ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted June 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Bruce Qi said: Haha , classic Doo Wai drama. When will all the nonsense cease around this stuff ! Probably never, as long as the mystique surrounding this tradition remains, and the few instructors actually capable of teaching the system decide to come out into the open and provide and honest service to the MA community. I doubt that is going to happen any time soon. For the time being I have no other option than to learn and practice what is available to me - the Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Qigong, as taught by SIfu Dunn - whatever its shortcomings. I think the reason people still practice these meditations rather than more powerful and simpler forms is quite simply a question of lack of access/availability. Sifu Dunn refuses to teach anything other than the FPCK meditations outside of his own classes and Skype one to one sessions, and not even the entire FPCK system is available on his DVDs. He presently has a monopoly on the system because for better or for worse GM Doo Wai appointed Sifu Garry Hearfield as his representative for Europe. All well and good until you take into consideration the distance between Australia - where Sifu Garry is based - and Europe!!!!! Obviously GM Doo Wai's knowledge of geographical locations fell somewhat short, and no-one thought to inform him of this rather sad mistake...leaving absolutely zero resources for anyone in Europe with the desire to learn and carry on this tradition. Sifu Dunn has also made it quite clear that he is not interested in translating or providing foreign language subtitles for his videos - a grave oversight, I feel. So those of us who are neither anywhere near the USA or Australasia have very little choice if we want to follow the Bak Fu Pai tradition or learn any of the other GM Doo Wai traditional arts. Hence my post. Nevertheless I will say that having reached the Volume 7 sitting meditations I do regard this as a powerful Qigong method, and whether or not it is capable of leading to full awakening as Sifu Dunn claims, I can attest to having achieved a very deep meditative state during my practice, and I daily experience practising at the pace 'of a shifting sand dune'. Something that I would not have thought possible prior to my discovery of this art. I should perhaps clarify that I came to this method for its healing properties, as I was in a pretty bad way. It has certainly helped with my health to a certain extent, but I do feel that the meditations take far too long to complete the required number of repetitions. A single moving meditation can easily take me upwards of 40 minutes to complete 7 repetitions, by which time I really need to make a great effort to do another meditation such as the Volume 4 long form. There are simply not enough hours in the day to fit this in on top of one's daily responsibilities. So if someone were to offer me a more powerful and effective healing system within the Bak Fu Pai tradition I would certainly be interested. But I agree that the videos on offer at any of the sites discussed cannot be worth that kind of money, and I find it difficult to believe that it was GM Doo Wai himself who decided on those prices. But maybe I am mistaken... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leif Posted July 2, 2018 On 29. 6. 2018 at 4:54 PM, DSCB57 said: GM Doo Wai appointed Sifu Garry Hearfield as his representative for Europe. Unless there were some recent changes, my understanding in the past was that GMDW appointed Garry Hearfield (WBBM) as his representative for some arts, subsequently Christer Wretfors who lives in Sweden is representative of WBBM for Europe. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 3, 2018 On 02/07/2018 at 4:48 PM, Leif said: Unless there were some recent changes, my understanding in the past was that GMDW appointed Garry Hearfield (WBBM) as his representative for some arts, subsequently Christer Wretfors who lives in Sweden is representative of WBBM for Europe. Thank you. That is good to know, except that technically Sweden is not actually part of the EU, and is pretty far removed from the main countries which do constitute Europe. Most masters have established firm connections and trained instructors in the UK, France, Germany and other important cultural centres within Europe itself (even though since Brexit the UK is no longer part of the EU either). That makes a great deal of sense if one wants one's tradition to expand and extend worldwide. This is what I am complaining about. Also, like his sifu Garry Hearfield, Christer is not trained in the better part of the Doo family traditional arts, only a very small part of Bak Fu Pai and the Tibetan Burning Palm represented by Sifu Hearfield. In fact none of the instructors appointed by GM Doo Wai to carry on the lineage appear to have received training in all the systems GM Doo Wai preserves, of even any single complete system within Bak Fu Pai. I find that worrying, because many of his arts will die with him, and the range of arts represented by Sifu Dunn and Sifu Hearfield are only the tip of the iceberg - almost a taster of what his family arts are really about...if you have practised any of the meditations such as Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix, the 690AD Doo Family Healing meditations, the San Gong meditations or any of many many others offered by GM Doo Wai on video, or even the Ginggong on Sifu Dan La Rochelle's instruction tapes, you will realize that there are far more powerful systems than either Flying Phoenix or the Tibetan Burning palm, and no-one seems to be actually teaching them in person. That is a real shame. Yet in a way I can understand, because of all the flak that GM Doo Wai has taken over the years, as well as the controversies which have ensued with his ex students such as Sifu Jim Lacey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tao stillness Posted July 5, 2018 The above complaints about Sifu Dan La Rochelle surprise me because over the last 5 years he has always replied to any questions I had about what he offers on his website. The Rizzo brothers have also always replied to my questions about their products and they were the ones who informed me of Doo Wai's health issues with the strokes. As far as Flying Phoenix taking too long to do, I totally agree with that. And that is the only shortcoming I find in that system. The quality of those dvds by Terry Dunn is beyond what most other qigong dvds look like. The question about if there are any qigong methods out there which do not take as long as FP but are equally or more beneficial can only be answered on an individual basis that would take a legitimate medical clairvoyant to determine. That is how I determine which qigong methods I currently practice. Each method is relative to other methods and is always based on your individual condition of your nervous system, energy blocks, etc. There is no way to determine this on your own. As for the crazy high prices for some of Doo Wai videos, I was told by a few of his students that the price relates to how powerful the claimed benefits are for that particular qigong method from the Doo Wai family lineage. That is why 690 AD method costs $300. Some of the Doo Wai students were charged $30,000 for Doo Wai to make them a video of a certain qigong form. PT Barnum said it best. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted July 8, 2018 Sorry, but Dan LaRochelle and the Rizzo brothers sounds like a circus act to me. The question is, are they acrobats or clowns? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted July 8, 2018 apparently they own their circus 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted July 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: apparently they own their circus Aha, so they ARE the circus, not just one of the acts, that had occurred to me too, but I wanted to be nice =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronMarshall Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 11:59 AM, tao stillness said: The above complaints about Sifu Dan La Rochelle surprise me because over the last 5 years he has always replied to any questions I had about what he offers on his website. The Rizzo brothers have also always replied to my questions about their products and they were the ones who informed me of Doo Wai's health issues with the strokes. As far as Flying Phoenix taking too long to do, I totally agree with that. And that is the only shortcoming I find in that system. The quality of those dvds by Terry Dunn is beyond what most other qigong dvds look like. The question about if there are any qigong methods out there which do not take as long as FP but are equally or more beneficial can only be answered on an individual basis that would take a legitimate medical clairvoyant to determine. That is how I determine which qigong methods I currently practice. Each method is relative to other methods and is always based on your individual condition of your nervous system, energy blocks, etc. There is no way to determine this on your own. As for the crazy high prices for some of Doo Wai videos, I was told by a few of his students that the price relates to how powerful the claimed benefits are for that particular qigong method from the Doo Wai family lineage. That is why 690 AD method costs $300. Some of the Doo Wai students were charged $30,000 for Doo Wai to make them a video of a certain qigong form. PT Barnum said it best. My comments about Dan LaRochelle not only reflect my personal experience with him, but also a handful of other people I've come into contact with who are also interested in Bak Fu Pai. I certainly don't want to speak for them as that's hearsay, so please don't take my word for it. It's extremely disappointing. However, I have also come across another individual such as yourself who claims that they have had a long-standing relationship with Mr. LaRochelle and that he's always replied to emails and answered questions with him. But I also know that this individual has spent a LOT of money with Dan. Probably thousands. Perhaps that's why he's willing to spare five minutes to send an email to him? Or to you? How much have you spent with him? And is that the deciding factor of whether or not the rest of us are worthy enough of his time? This individual also claims that LaRochelle has a massive hidden library of Doo Wai material that has never been for sale publicly on the website and that if you're lucky enough to make friends with him; he's willing to sell you some super rare stuff. As for the Rizzo Brothers; honestly, I've only contacted them that one time because I was in the area. I'm not really blaming them for their unavailability as it was a pretty random, spur of the moment inspiration that I had since I was near them. I only wanted to relay my experience. If I ever go back out that way; I'll try to make preparations weeks in advance to ensure they're available and do things in a more mutually practical way. If the issue were with one single guy, seller, instructor; it wouldn't be such a big deal. But the problem is that it seems like it's ALL of these guys. Not only are they horrible to their potential customers and students, but they're horrible to each other and they're all forking over large sums of cash for horrible videos so that they can individually claim to be the number one leader of the system (or a certain part of the system). Why? Because this system in particular has set a precedent for having people (as you yourself claim above) pay upwards of $30,000 for a video on a Qigong Form. That's a serious revenue stream. Hell, I've been practicing Tibetan Lama Burning Palm since 1994. Anyone out there wanna pay me $6000 for some high quality videos and a few certificates? I could use a new motorcycle. Or a nice vacation. Come on guys, hook a brother up? I think, after Doo Wai dies, you're going to see a whole army of guys popping up claiming to have secret knowledge of this and that. And Grandmaster Doo Wai is known for handing out titles, ranks and Grandmasterships. So, whether we're talking Garry Hearfield or anyone else; I'm really not that impressed by their resume. And unless Grandmaster Doo Wai himself ever posts a list of certified representatives; instructors and students, how are you, me and anyone else really sure of someone's claims? We can't be, unless we can ask him ourselves. And that's unlikely to happen. And also, all the available instructors (which are few and far between) are also going to probably expand on their claims of styles and mastery from Doo Wai after his death. Why wouldn't they? If they can keep feeding the sheep a line of crap about paying them $300 for this or that; it's a major cash cow for them. So I think it'll be interesting to see the feuding between these guys at that point. (Also, I do actually have respect for some of these guys as they are actually very accomplished in other martial arts systems on top of what they do in the Bak Fu Pai realm and I'm only speaking about how I sincerely feel about this particular material. Nothing else.) I think another interesting point is that you never see a "complete" demonstration of an art by any of these guys. Ask them how many forms there are in Omei Bak Mei, or White Tiger Kung Fu and then ask to see a quick demonstration of ALL the forms at once? Or how many levels of Sunn Yee Gong and ask to see a demonstration of all the material. My feeling is that they can't do it and they only show what they've learned and none of these Grandmasters, Instructors and/or Representatives have even learned all the material they're claiming to have been given. They'll show a few basic things and then maybe one or two advanced things that gives you an impression that they must know all the intermediate things too. A sort of sleight of hand there. If I can do White Belt Form 1 and Black Belt Form 10, then obviously I must know all the forms from 2 to 9, right? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to see a demo that verifies their claims. Do you? I mean, if I walked into a Kenpo school and asked to see all the forms, or self-defense techniques they allege to teach; the guy would show me. And if he couldn't then I would have serious cause to think he's a fake individual who's misleading his students and/or audience into believing he's the keeper of a knowledge which doesn't actually possess. If I walked into any Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kung Fu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school in the world and asked to see a demonstration of all their forms; or techniques at a certain level; I would be obliged in most cases. Particularly if an instructor is skilled. They like to show off their mastery. Instead, when it comes to the majority of the Doo Wai guys; you get excuses, or paranoid rants, a changing of the subject and a verbally abusive list aimed to discredit you simply for asking about proof of mastery. Cuz how dare anyone question their obvious superiority. They claim that you're only out to steal their system or info and therefore they can't show you 'cuz you're a spy. Or they make a claim like Doo Wai has only authorized me to let certain parts out at certain times. Huh? That hurt my brain. So.... he gave you the info but told you only to release it at certain times? For what purpose exactly? I think what they really mean is; "I'll let it out as I learn it." As for the price tags on some of the videos or training; I cannot believe anyone would pay $300 or even $30,000 for a series of meditations. But hey, if you create something you have the right to charge whatever you want for it. There are far more popular systems of Qigong and Internal Arts available, some of which (like Tai Chi) have been analyzed and studied by Harvard Medical School with a long standing record of verifiable evidence to support certain health and fitness claims. I'd much rather dedicate a large portion of my energy into the practice and research of a system that is widely available enough that you can compare and contrast your skill sets with others. I don't know why people insist on trying to find something rare and unique that only one or two people on the planet might know. That tells me you're learning something for your Ego, not for it's actual benefit. 90% of the guys who claim lineage under Doo Wai have never even met the guy face to face. They've learned what they teach from the same horrible videos we've all purchased. And yet they'll sit back and say they are doing it the right way and they know that because Doo Wai blessed them with a certain "special" extra knowledge about that method that those other guys don't have. Or that you don't have. You can't simply do a google search and verify any of their claims. You can't compare their performance of a Qigong set, Form or Procedure with someone else because - well, this stuff has to remain secretive. We live in the information age. If you can't verify or research something online; there's a big issue with that, in my opinion. And for people who claim to have the most POWERFUL, LIFE CHANGING, HEALTH PROMOTING methods of Chinese Martial Arts the world has ever seen; I certainly don't see anyone making an effort to get those life-saving methods into the hands of people who might actually need or benefit from them or volunteering to do health studies with groups of sick patients to see if the addition of these ultra-powerful Qigong and Meditations methods actually improve someone's health. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 10, 2018 On 02/07/2018 at 4:48 PM, Leif said: Unless there were some recent changes, my understanding in the past was that GMDW appointed Garry Hearfield (WBBM) as his representative for some arts, subsequently Christer Wretfors who lives in Sweden is representative of WBBM for Europe. A slight correction. It was not GM Doo Wai who appointed Christer Wretfors as anything. WBBM as far as I am aware is the sole provenance of Sifu Garry Hearfield, and it was he who in fact appointed Christer to represent his organisation in the EU - that is not what I asked about, and is of no interest to me whatsoever. Please get your facts right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) On 05/07/2018 at 6:59 PM, tao stillness said: As far as Flying Phoenix taking too long to do, I totally agree with that. And that is the only shortcoming I find in that system. The quality of those dvds by Terry Dunn is beyond what most other qigong dvds look like. I am coming to the conclusion that this is not a question of being a shortcoming in the system itself, but only the particular branch of the Flying Phoenix system which Terry Dunn teaches and represents. However, now that I have had the opportunity to begin to investigate and practice other branches of the Flying Phoenix I can attest that there is absolutely no reason why it should take someone in the region of 2 years practice to reach the Volume 7 level without actually having attained very much in terms of cultivation, and if limiting oneself to Terry Dunn's teachings, with no real hope of ever moving far beyond that level. Nonetheless, as silum stated back in 2012, whilst this branch of Flying Phoenix may not be particularly high level cultivation within the entirety of the Bak Fu Pai system, which is vast, there can be no argument against the fact that it does provide a pretty sound introduction to the more advanced systems of meditation. Had I begun the Golden Lotus without first moving through the various stages of development provided by Volumes 1 through 7 as presented by Terry Dunn, I would probably had a far more difficult time of it trying to learn and self correct the high level material found in the albeit poorly produced video material of GM Doo Wai himself performing these. Now to your comment regarding the quality of Terry Dunn's videos as opposed to those of GM Doo Wai. While there is no denying the obvious huge disparity between the actual video and production quality of GM Doo Wai's and Terry Dunn's videos, to the skilled eye there is something I feel that perhaps you did not pick up on. To my eye Terry Dunn's performance of the Flying Phoenix forms (meditations in BFP parlance), it seems very obvious that Terry has injected the flavour of the other IMAs he teaches and practises into his movements. In fact it appears to me that he performs the FPCK meditations as though he were actually practising Taijiquan. On the other hand, when you really watch GM Doo Wai's movements closely, and I mean minutely closely - the kind of absolute precision necessary to actually learn the forms from these videos - there is a subtle nuance which is not present in any of the demonstrations I have seen of Terry Dunn, either on Youtube or on any of his DVD productions. Perhaps a better way to describe what I mean is that I perceive that it is him mainly focusing on the correctness of the outward movement rather than actually being moved by the Flying Phoenix energy, which as in the case of truly high level IMA practitioners often results in the performance of the forms appearing sloppy or even choppy. This is because the more one advances in an internal art such as Taijiquan, the more internalised the movements become, until hardly any of the roundness or other prettiness remains. Perhaps this also explains why despite his exhortations to his students to practice 'at the pace of a moving sand dune', I have seen nothing close to this in any of his demonstrations, and indeed one can see that far from being in a state of bliss his eyes are in fact tightly clenched, and he seems to find it necessary also to edit some of his demonstrations of the Volume 4 long form in order to make it appear that he is capable of performing it slowly with his eyes closed whilst maintaining his balance. If you do not believe me, just check out the demo on Youtube in which he is dressed in jeans and performing the long form by the sea. At the point at which he moves into the 'crane standing on one leg' movement and changes to the cat stance you will see a very poorly edited section in which another version has obviously been spliced into the video to make it appear that there is a smooth transition between these movements. But in order to see this you will have to slow the video down and cut that section out and really look at it...but it is there, I assure you. Quote Quote The question about if there are any qigong methods out there which do not take as long as FP but are equally or more beneficial can only be answered on an individual basis that would take a legitimate medical clairvoyant to determine. OK, I am sorry, but I really take issue with this. One of the things I have seen on the FPCK thread which I truly take offence to is Terry Dunn's continual imposition of ideas like this and his opinions regarding western occultism, hermeticism and what amounts to Crowley adulation - none of which have any place in a thread concerning these arts. This clearly shows his level of attainment, or lack thereof, as he has clearly fallen into the trap of occult fascination with Aleistair Crowley and all the New Age nonsense which was one of his main objectives for his legacy to the world. Clairvoyants receive their information from the lower astral realm, which is very very low in the scheme of things, and certainly nothing to do with the level of attainment one should be aspiring toward in these cultivation arts. I would certainly not entrust my choice of direction in cultivation methods to someone who is basically channeling entities. Like it or not that is what it boils down to... In my opinion it is such tendencies as this and the fixation upon the martial aspect of these arts which limited what GM Doo Wai was able to impart to the instructors he actually taught. That is the most probable reason for none of these instructors having access to any complete branch of the system. Quote Quote That is how I determine which qigong methods I currently practice. A very poor choice... Yes, there is a way. Reach attainment and you will become your own master. That is what this system is really about. Even Terry Dunn intimates this, although he cannot demonstrate it. Quote As for the crazy high prices for some of Doo Wai videos, I was told by a few of his students that the price relates to how powerful the claimed benefits are for that particular qigong method from the Doo Wai family lineage. That is why 690 AD method costs $300. Some of the Doo Wai students were charged $30,000 for Doo Wai to make them a video of a certain qigong form. PT Barnum said it best. There is a cultural inference we also need to take stock of. To the Chinese money is nothing more than another type of Qi, so they expect one to have it in abundance, and we interpret that as overt materialism on their part - which for us it is! But I have no doubt that GM Doo Wai like many Chinese is a very astute business man. He knows when he dangles a carrot in front of the right nose that the person will do anything to get to it. But he is not the one responsible for this. What has made this possible is the fact that there has always been so much secrecy in these arts. I have little doubt that it also has to do with us being Gwai Lohs, as you simply would not find a Chinese who would accept being treated like that. It is also a matter of greed for greed. These people are greedy for knowledge, and the masters are greedy for wealth and power. There is a certain synergy in this. But Terry Dunn recently let some truth out. He said that when a master comes across a student of the right calibre, money will not be involved and teachings will be given free of charge, and I have found his to be so. Edited July 10, 2018 by DSCB57 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 10, 2018 10 hours ago, IronMarshall said: Quote This individual also claims that LaRochelle has a massive hidden library of Doo Wai material that has never been for sale publicly on the website and that if you're lucky enough to make friends with him; he's willing to sell you some super rare stuff. If it were real friendship they would not charge for it... 10 hours ago, IronMarshall said: Quote If the issue were with one single guy, seller, instructor; it wouldn't be such a big deal. But the problem is that it seems like it's ALL of these guys. Not only are they horrible to their potential customers and students, but they're horrible to each other and they're all forking over large sums of cash for horrible videos so that they can individually claim to be the number one leader of the system (or a certain part of the system). Why? Because this system in particular has set a precedent for having people (as you yourself claim above) pay upwards of $30,000 for a video on a Qigong Form. That's a serious revenue stream. Hell, I've been practicing Tibetan Lama Burning Palm since 1994. Anyone out there wanna pay me $6000 for some high quality videos and a few certificates? I could use a new motorcycle. Or a nice vacation. Come on guys, hook a brother up? All they have done is jump on the bandwagon, and there is no doubt that GM Doo Wai had a part in setting that precedent. But as I said before, that would not be acceptable for a Chinese student, so he probably would not bother trying it on with them. But there is another way to look at this. If one were to invest such a sizeable sum in order to learn a very powerful system from a master such as GM Doo Wai, and that system were authentic, then in all probability that practice would be capable of producing the right conditions to be able to attract a great deal more wealth than just that. As to whether even if one were able to pay out such a sum in return for such information and training would assure actually obtaining the right to access that knowledge is another question. One could very well find it impossible to actually pursue the practice because of a lack of de or other such shortfall. There would also be no way to force him to divulge that information even if one did pay through the nose for it. I would far rather attempt to prove my worth to the master not in terms of my ability to pay such exaggerated amounts, but in my value as a student capable of honouring and upholding the tradition and practice of his family arts. Not that at my age that would even be possible :). Quote I think, after Doo Wai dies, you're going to see a whole army of guys popping up claiming to have secret knowledge of this and that. And Grandmaster Doo Wai is known for handing out titles, ranks and Grandmasterships. So, whether we're talking Garry Hearfield or anyone else; I'm really not that impressed by their resume. Nor should you be. Quote And unless Grandmaster Doo Wai himself ever posts a list of certified representatives; instructors and students, how are you, me and anyone else really sure of someone's claims? We can't be, unless we can ask him ourselves. And that's unlikely to happen. Well, if you are following the latest events in the FPCK thread drama, on the video uploaded by Terry Dunn, that is precisely what he is trying to force GM Doo Wai to do. Quote And also, all the available instructors (which are few and far between) are also going to probably expand on their claims of styles and mastery from Doo Wai after his death. Why wouldn't they? If they can keep feeding the sheep a line of crap about paying them $300 for this or that; it's a major cash cow for them. So I think it'll be interesting to see the feuding between these guys at that point. (Also, I do actually have respect for some of these guys as they are actually very accomplished in other martial arts systems on top of what they do in the Bak Fu Pai realm and I'm only speaking about how I sincerely feel about this particular material. Nothing else.) I feel that GM Doo Wai has a surprise in store for all of them that will put them all in their places, and if I am correct, their level of attainment would then be possible to compare with that of someone with a real level of attainment, and their material worth would have to be adjusted to suit the situation. Quote I think another interesting point is that you never see a "complete" demonstration of an art by any of these guys. Ask them how many forms there are in Omei Bak Mei, or White Tiger Kung Fu and then ask to see a quick demonstration of ALL the forms at once? Or how many levels of Sunn Yee Gong and ask to see a demonstration of all the material. My feeling is that they can't do it and they only show what they've learned and none of these Grandmasters, Instructors and/or Representatives have even learned all the material they're claiming to have been given. They'll show a few basic things and then maybe one or two advanced things that gives you an impression that they must know all the intermediate things too. A sort of sleight of hand there. If I can do White Belt Form 1 and Black Belt Form 10, then obviously I must know all the forms from 2 to 9, right? With such a vast system as Bak Fu Pai, in all honesty it is probably too much to expect for any one student who in all probability only began to learn the art at some point in their 20's to ever have learned all the forms from even a single branch of the system. It is really mind boggling to me that GM Doo Wai is able to remember all these forms from all these systems with their accompanying breath control sequences, mudras and mantras. That for me is evidence of attainment of an extremely high level of cultivation, and to expect something similar from any of his instructors is frankly ridiculous. Quote I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to see a demo that verifies their claims. Do you? I mean, if I walked into a Kenpo school and asked to see all the forms, or self-defense techniques they allege to teach; the guy would show me. And if he couldn't then I would have serious cause to think he's a fake individual who's misleading his students and/or audience into believing he's the keeper of a knowledge which doesn't actually possess. In order to know the level of an instructor one needs to also have a level of attainment. These instructors are well aware that most students will have zero level of attainment, and so they can play with that. Many who call themselves martial arts instructors are in fact only a couple of steps ahead of their own students, and dependent on another instructor to continue to teach them so that they have something new to teach their students. I am in no way referring to any of GM Doo Wai's instructors when I say that, but in their particular case, how would one know what level they had attained without having already attained a similar level? The answer is that one cannot. So one is left with the dilemma of being forced to trust that the instructor in question really has the level of skill he or she pretends to have attained to. That boils down to a question of integrity. This is why the old ways involved the gradual development of a relationship between Sifu and student during which both of them came to know one another in a father/son relationship. Yet despite that it was sometimes the case that they would find out too late that they had created a monster, then that lineage would eventually become completely corrupt. That is a risk any master must face. But I believe that this is even more the case with such powerful and deadly skills as those imparted by Bak Fu Pai, Bak Mei etc. Not only that, but in the case of the higher cultivation within the system there is also the risk of allowing the system to get into the hands of a student who at some point would pervert or destroy the practice, by watering down the practice or by holding back vital information. Secrecy is one way of trying to preserve the tradition in its original form. The other point was also mentioned by Terry Dunn. At one point on the FPCK thread, he stated that these arts are not for everyone. I believe that statement to be true. In order to be able to practice these arts there seem to me to be certain requirements, and some of them in all probability relate to karma and de (virtue). If a practitioner feels they are achieving nothing they will very quickly give it up as a lost cause. The same is true of many Qigong practices. If you lack the self discipline you are unlikely to stay the course. Quote Or they make a claim like Doo Wai has only authorized me to let certain parts out at certain times. Huh? That hurt my brain. So.... he gave you the info but told you only to release it at certain times? For what purpose exactly? I think what they really mean is; "I'll let it out as I learn it." This may make more sense to you once you have read my take on this further down the page... As for the price tags on some of the videos or training; I cannot believe anyone would pay $300 or even $30,000 for a series of meditations. But hey, if you create something you have the right to charge whatever you want for it. There are far more popular systems of Qigong and Internal Arts available, some of which (like Tai Chi) have been analyzed and studied by Harvard Medical School with a long standing record of verifiable evidence to support certain health and fitness claims. Quote I'd much rather dedicate a large portion of my energy into the practice and research of a system that is widely available enough that you can compare and contrast your skill sets with others. I don't know why people insist on trying to find something rare and unique that only one or two people on the planet might know. That tells me you're learning something for your Ego, not for it's actual benefit. You know that I have a great deal of respect for you, but I disagree with what you are saying here. It is not necessarily a question of seeking out an art which is rare and unique, so much as the fact that such arts are inherently rare and unique. Do you know what the greatest difficulty is that a master can encounter? Finding someone with equal or greater skill. You will no doubt have heard that often all it will take is a single touch for one master to acknowledge the superiority of another? It really is so. And the fact that so many masters deliberately hold back information from their students pretty much ensures that none of them will actually ever surpass them or become a 'worthy opponent'. So when a master gets to that point the tendency is to stagnate because they cannot continue to grow and evolve within their art. Either that or they will look for another art to learn. Quote 90% of the guys who claim lineage under Doo Wai have never even met the guy face to face. They've learned what they teach from the same horrible videos we've all purchased. And yet they'll sit back and say they are doing it the right way and they know that because Doo Wai blessed them with a certain "special" extra knowledge about that method that those other guys don't have. Or that you don't have. You can't simply do a google search and verify any of their claims. You can't compare their performance of a Qigong set, Form or Procedure with someone else because - well, this stuff has to remain secretive. We live in the information age. If you can't verify or research something online; there's a big issue with that, in my opinion. And for people who claim to have the most POWERFUL, LIFE CHANGING, HEALTH PROMOTING methods of Chinese Martial Arts the world has ever seen; I certainly don't see anyone making an effort to get those life-saving methods into the hands of people who might actually need or benefit from them or volunteering to do health studies with groups of sick patients to see if the addition of these ultra-powerful Qigong and Meditations methods actually improve someone's health. There is something people rarely take into account. Have you ever asked yourself why it is necessary to be healthy from a cultivation perspective? The fact is that in order to practice high level cultivation one needs to be healthy. That is the start. One also needs to be spiritually awakened in order to actually understand Neidan or the alchemical process. This is only the first step on the Path toward attainment of the Dao. If you ask a high level practitioner about hands on healing of other people you might be surprised by the way they respond. Contrary to all the crap taught by Reiki practitioners and the like, one does not automatically become exempt from the karmic implications of interfering with someone's life lessons. Illness occurs when we choose to live in conditions which are contrary or out of harmony with the Dao. We create imbalance and disharmony in our lives, then we expect someone else to reestablish that harmony and balance. These New Age notions about going out and healing everyone who is suffering do not take into consideration the actual meaning of compassionate action. This is why a sage or other awakened being often appears almost devoid of compassion as we see it. Sometimes compassionate action means leaving someone to suffer or even take their life as an instrument of karma. But what we are unable to understand is the complex interaction of karmic bonds which are interwoven between people. Then there is the issue of the psychic vampirism which all too often arises as either the patient or the healer begin to diminish their energy reserves. These relationships are extremely complicated and difficult to deal with, and they make advancement toward any degree of attainment in these august arts even more difficult. So what I am trying to say is that these arts are not really about healing, they are about providing the means to maintain one's correct relationship with Dharma and the Dao in order to be able to move toward the higher levels of cultivation. It is my belief that GM Doo Wai simply could not find students with sufficient 'De' to merit being taught anything beyond the systems he has taught them and allowed them to continue to teach for their own profit. But that has very little to do with what these arts were truly designed for. There was a time when the Dharma needed an organ of protection, and originally it was the Shaolin under the auspices of Bodhidharma who served in that role. After this, as the cultivation began to absorb more of the Daoist methods, the responsibility was undertaken by the Daoist priesthood and protected by arts such as Bak Fu Pai. But these martial arts have been taken out of both the context of war and protection of these teaching in our present day, and have been transformed into a cult for the adulation of the western world. This has taken place through the media of films and television. The meaning has been lost, and very few people these days are able to perceive the interconnection between the internal arts, martial arts and spiritual cultivation. In other words, masters like GM Doo Wai see these arts in an entirely different and far more inclusive and cohesive way. But one must also take into account public demand. You cannot sell what people do not want to acquire, and you cannot teach anything which your students have no desire to learn. It is much the same situation as the western approach to TCM. The tendency is to pick one very particular branch of a huge and comprehensive system of health care and use that to represent the whole. This is what happened with acupuncture. Very many of those who went to China in the 70's in order to learn TCM returned to their respective countries and began clinics in which only acupuncture was available for treatments. Very few of them learned Chinese Fitotherapy (herbal medicine) or Qigong therapy or Tuina or an endless array of different forms of treatment which are available under the umbrella of TCM. Thus even today when one mentions TCM, the first idea that comes into someone's mind is the example of acupuncture or maybe acupressure. Do you see where I am going with this? So when we return to the subject of martial arts, who comes into our mind when anyone mentions Gongfu? Bruce Lee right? And what was Bruce Lee's attitude toward tradition? He often publicly denied that Qi existed. He totally turned his back on his former training in Wing Tsun Gongfu and on his former master in the art. That was the beginning of a trend which has culminated in the gradual erosion of the true value of these arts and the understanding of their interrelationship with all other aspects of cultivation. So now imagine GM Doo Wai's class. Back then I have no doubt whatsoever that it would have been full of gungho Bruce Lee wannabees. So he had to adjust his teaching to that level. Perhaps there was the odd individual who showed more promise, but as we have seen even those who he actually appointed as instructors have very little idea about what we are presently discussing. Actually practising these meditations is the only way in my opinion that one is going to find out what kind of energies this is really about, and sadly it appears that none of these instructors seem to have moved beyond the level of obvious jing. But we should not judge the master by his students, especially not in this case. I suspect that GM Doo Wai will find a way of transmitting his legacy to someone deserving of that privilege, and I can only hope that that person will honour and uphold those values and begin to disseminate the true teachings as they were intended to be given to the world. Otherwise these arts will die with him as has been the case with so many other arts. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
senseless virtue Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I am coming to the conclusion that this is not a question of being a shortcoming in the system itself, but only the particular branch of the Flying Phoenix system which Terry Dunn teaches and represents. However, now that I have had the opportunity to begin to investigate and practice other branches of the Flying Phoenix I can attest that there is absolutely no reason why it should take someone in the region of 2 years practice to reach the Volume 7 level without actually having attained very much in terms of cultivation, and if limiting oneself to Terry Dunn's teachings, with no real hope of ever moving far beyond that level. So how did you practice then for two years if you didn't progress much? I assume that you are speaking from your own experience. Quote Had I begun the Golden Lotus without first moving through the various stages of development provided by Volumes 1 through 7 as presented by Terry Dunn, I would probably had a far more difficult time of it trying to learn and self correct the high level material found in the albeit poorly produced video material of GM Doo Wai himself performing these. This is very ironic considering the next quoted paragraph which has a flavor of malcontent criticism. You basically admit that Sifu Terry is providing an excellent pedagogical approach to learning the Flying Phoenix and other White Tiger internal arts. Quote Now to your comment regarding the quality of Terry Dunn's videos as opposed to those of GM Doo Wai. While there is no denying the obvious huge disparity between the actual video and production quality of GM Doo Wai's and Terry Dunn's videos, to the skilled eye there is something I feel that perhaps you did not pick up on. To my eye Terry Dunn's performance of the Flying Phoenix forms (meditations in BFP parlance), it seems very obvious that Terry has injected the flavour of the other IMAs he teaches and practises into his movements. In fact it appears to me that he performs the FPCK meditations as though he were actually practising Taijiquan. On the other hand, when you really watch GM Doo Wai's movements closely, and I mean minutely closely - the kind of absolute precision necessary to actually learn the forms from these videos - there is a subtle nuance which is not present in any of the demonstrations I have seen of Terry Dunn, either on Youtube or on any of his DVD productions. Perhaps a better way to describe what I mean is that I perceive that it is him mainly focusing on the correctness of the outward movement rather than actually being moved by the Flying Phoenix energy, which as in the case of truly high level IMA practitioners often results in the performance of the forms appearing sloppy or even choppy. This is because the more one advances in an internal art such as Taijiquan, the more internalised the movements become, until hardly any of the roundness or other prettiness remains. Any good qigong or martial arts teacher will emphasize the importance of learning the correct form first. Sifu Terry's DVDs are for beginners, hence they need to focus on correct form to get the optimal energy cultivation to start with. There would be no need to make a point about wuwei and letting the energy take the lead at this stage because it would just complicate learning and possibly create misleading impressions how to practice in the beginning. You may already well know that many people, especially the Westerners, like to take shortcuts and cut around corners. Teaching it like Sifu Terry has done is pedagogically sound because keeping it simple keeps discipline easy. As for the Taijiquan flavor of FP forms, I think you are reading too much into this. Round and smooth movement is not the exclusive property of Taijiquan, but it certainly makes it easier to learn and practice the external forms. 11 hours ago, DSCB57 said: OK, I am sorry, but I really take issue with this. One of the things I have seen on the FPCK thread which I truly take offence to is Terry Dunn's continual imposition of ideas like this and his opinions regarding western occultism, hermeticism and what amounts to Crowley adulation - none of which have any place in a thread concerning these arts. This clearly shows his level of attainment, or lack thereof, as he has clearly fallen into the trap of occult fascination with Aleistair Crowley and all the New Age nonsense which was one of his main objectives for his legacy to the world. So correct me if I am wrong here. You condemn Sifu Terry's fascination and high-spirited elaboration of Western mystical traditions as occultism, which by definition means secret doctrines and teachings, but on the other keep on insisting that GMDW has been with-holding secrets from his former students that are now going to be spilled out for everyone with enough ca$h by your new mystical infatuation, the supposed Kriyayoga master Ausar. Occultism here and there. Is this not glaring hypocrisy? Quote Clairvoyants receive their information from the lower astral realm, which is very very low in the scheme of things, and certainly nothing to do with the level of attainment one should be aspiring toward in these cultivation arts. I would certainly not entrust my choice of direction in cultivation methods to someone who is basically channeling entities. I have met many people who can actually see energy and have had this ability since birth. Are you sure you are not here projecting your own prejudices about medical clairvoyants? Quote In my opinion it is such tendencies as this and the fixation upon the martial aspect of these arts which limited what GM Doo Wai was able to impart to the instructors he actually taught. Complete hyperbole without any evidence, and there is actually proof for the opposite. As you have followed the FPCK thread for years, you should be well aware that Sifu Terry, for example, is an initiated Daoist Priest and a skilled master in the Tao Tan Pai tradition long before learning from GMDW. Master Share K. Lew, the late head of Tao Tan Pai, was also in very good terms with GMDW and hence there has been no mistake nor misjudgement about the high qualification and attainment Sifu Terry already had before learning from GMDW. Quote That is the most probable reason for none of these instructors having access to any complete branch of the system. So if you can't have, then no one else may have either? 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I would far rather attempt to prove my worth to the master not in terms of my ability to pay such exaggerated amounts, but in my value as a student capable of honouring and upholding the tradition and practice of his family arts. Not that at my age that would even be possible :). Excellent work, my young padawan. Such honorable conduct as yours will surely cherish and enrich any self-respecting family and their inherited arts. 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Well, if you are following the latest events in the FPCK thread drama, on the video uploaded by Terry Dunn, that is precisely what he is trying to force GM Doo Wai to do. There has been no drama other than your persistent self-aggrandizing confusion and persecution complex. I think no one has anything against you, even though your manners have been very poor. Let me get this straight. Are you accusing that Sifu Terry is or has been trying to force GMDW to present inauthentic certifications and lie to Youtube watchers? 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I feel that GM Doo Wai has a surprise in store for all of them that will put them all in their places, and if I am correct, their level of attainment would then be possible to compare with that of someone with a real level of attainment, and their material worth would have to be adjusted to suit the situation. Would you like to talk more about your feelings and your opinion of the proper place of everyone? 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: In order to be able to practice these arts there seem to me to be certain requirements, and some of them in all probability relate to karma and de (virtue). If a practitioner feels they are achieving nothing they will very quickly give it up as a lost cause. The same is true of many Qigong practices. If you lack the self discipline you are unlikely to stay the course. This is the wisest and a genuinely useful bit in your recent writings. Maybe you should read it again and examine throughout how it relates to your own conduct and discipline? 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Have you ever asked yourself why it is necessary to be healthy from a cultivation perspective? The fact is that in order to practice high level cultivation one needs to be healthy. This is not universally true. I know for certain that there are Buddhist tantras and dzogchen meditation that have very low demands on physical capacity or health. 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: If you ask a high level practitioner about hands on healing of other people you might be surprised by the way they respond. Contrary to all the crap taught by Reiki practitioners and the like, one does not automatically become exempt from the karmic implications of interfering with someone's life lessons. Illness occurs when we choose to live in conditions which are contrary or out of harmony with the Dao. We create imbalance and disharmony in our lives, then we expect someone else to reestablish that harmony and balance. Very profound, you are on the trace. The last line especially is crucially important. 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: But one must also take into account public demand. You cannot sell what people do not want to acquire, and you cannot teach anything which your students have no desire to learn. Sifus always look to reach dedicated and enthusiastic students who are trustworthy, loyal, and morally cultivated people. Such students will cherish and conserve all the teachings without complaint and will not ask when and what to receive because such is the love for their Sifu and the tradition. 9 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Actually practising these meditations is the only way in my opinion that one is going to find out what kind of energies this is really about, and sadly it appears that none of these instructors seem to have moved beyond the level of obvious jing. You know the best. Edited July 11, 2018 by virtue 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
senseless virtue Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Perhaps this also explains why despite his exhortations to his students to practice 'at the pace of a moving sand dune', I have seen nothing close to this in any of his demonstrations, and indeed one can see that far from being in a state of bliss his eyes are in fact tightly clenched I forgot address this earlier. The demonstration speed is for the sake of learning. If he moved slower, it would be bad for establishing muscle memory. Maybe I recall this wrong, but Sifu Terry has also stated that the FP energy can move advanced practitioners a bit faster and still impart same effects. If you had reached a very high level in any internal art, then you would certainly experience that bliss ceases intoxicating you after enough karmic purity is reached. Therefore a master wouldn't react to bliss like a beginner would. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leif Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, DSCB57 said: A slight correction. It was not GM Doo Wai who appointed Christer Wretfors as anything. WBBM as far as I am aware is the sole provenance of Sifu Garry Hearfield, and it was he who in fact appointed Christer to represent his organisation in the EU - that is not what I asked about, and is of no interest to me whatsoever. Please get your facts right. Maybe you have misread what I wrote. I wrote that ChW is representative of WBBM for Europe, not that he was appointed by GMDW. You asked who was trained to a high level in Doo family arts. ChW certainly was trained to a high enough level, at least by their standards if not yours, in some of the Doo family arts, otherwise he wouldn't be appointed by WBBM/GH who is defacto a lineage holder. He is also a teacher on some of their videos (eg. Bak Fu Sunn Yee Gung). Here is a list of sifus, authorized as of around 1998 (though of course it's very unlikely any of them is in Europe), significantly larger than the list voiced by GMDW on the Skype call recently: http://web.archive.org/web/19980709125431/www.bakfupai.com/shifu.html A bit old but contacts for some of them (CT, MG, DD,..) can be still be found online. Edited July 11, 2018 by Leif Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) On 11/07/2018 at 10:00 AM, virtue said: Quote So how did you practice then for two years if you didn't progress much? I assume that you are speaking from your own experience. Did you actually read what I wrote? I acknowledged that practising Volumes 1 through 7 of the FPCK meditations produced by Terry Dunn had served as a good introduction to the higher level meditations I was now learning and practising from GM Doo Wai's videos. I acknowledged the fact that without my prior FPCK practice I doubted that I would have been able to follow and learn from the material presented on the videos of the high level systems demonstrated by GM Doo Wai which I am now practising. However the other side of the coin is that I disagree that the branch of Flying Phoenix taught by Terry Dunn is the pinnacle of the art and high level cultivation which he says it is. I say that because from personal experience of only a short time of practising several of the meditations from what GM Doo Wai himself describes as high level cultivation, his descriptions are not mere hyperbole, but truthful statements. Quote This is very ironic considering the next quoted paragraph which has a flavor of malcontent criticism. I did not criticise the material presented by Terry Dunn within its own context, other than to remark that I had never seen Terry Dunn perform these meditations in the same way as one can see GM Doo Wai perform them. I said that Terry Dunn maintains his focus upon perfection of the form, just as one does in any art, but from my experience of the Flying Phoenix energies, this has little or nothing to do with that sort of focus. Once the FP energy is moving you, rather than you trying to remember the form from Terry Dunn's DVDs, I do not feel that one need focus on correctness of movement, because the form itself will teach your body how to follow the FP energy. I have never seen that in either Terry Dunn's demonstrations nor any of his students. I also said that it was Garry Hearfield whose Bak Fu Pai sitting meditation performed at the pace of a shifting sand dune was my first taste of what that actually meant, and I said and continue to say that this was what inspired me to experience that for myself, and whether anyone else wishes to believe me or not, I did in fact achieve that eventually, and documented the fact soon after on the FPCK thread. Quote You basically admit that Sifu Terry is providing an excellent pedagogical approach to learning the Flying Phoenix and other White Tiger internal arts. Don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned excellence in relation to Terry Dunn, nor would I, because excellence involves far more than appearance, it also involves the name you espouse and many other attributes which Terry's behaviour on this thread actually negates as far as I and others are concerned. If you wish to be another sycophant and treat him as though the sun shines out of his arse, then so be it. Good luck to you. Quote Any good qigong or martial arts teacher will emphasize the importance of learning the correct form first. Sifu Terry's DVDs are for beginners, hence they need to focus on correct form to get the optimal energy cultivation to start with. Excellent, now we are on the same page. But you see, just because someone comes to this thread in order to learn more about the Flying Phoenix does not make them all beginners. You assume that I am a young inexperienced greenhorn talking out of my arse, but in fact I have probably been practising martial arts now for nearly 40 of my 60 years, and much of that time has been spent with some really high level masters. What has held me back in my cultivation has been ill health since I was born, and quite a severe spinal condition which would leave most people in a wheel chair. I began to practise FPCK on the recommendation of another TTB member according to whose diagnosis I probably had only another 10 years to live, and according to him, if it was my intention to awaken before that, this was one of the steps I needed to take. Now to return to the point you just made - Terry Dunn touts this system as being high level cultivation. You yourself have just admitted that this is a branch of Flying Phoenix which is aimed at beginners to cultivation. What I am saying is that Terry Dunn should make that fact clear, because many people dedicating years of their lives to practising these meditations sincerely believe what Terry Dunn is saying, which is that they are ultimately capable of enlightening and even liberating the practitioner. That is not true, and neither is it true that this is high level cultivation or that it involves inner alchemy such as Neidan, because at this level it does not. Quote There would be no need to make a point about wuwei and letting the energy take the lead at this stage because it would just complicate learning and possibly create misleading impressions how to practice in the beginning. See my previous point... Quote You may already well know that many people, especially the Westerners, like to take shortcuts and cut around corners. Teaching it like Sifu Terry has done is pedagogically sound because keeping it simple keeps discipline easy. Quite, but you are still talking about this as though this were the way Terry is actually advertising the system, but this is not the case. Quote As for the Taijiquan flavor of FP forms, I think you are reading too much into this. Round and smooth movement is not the exclusive property of Taijiquan, but it certainly makes it easier to learn and practice the external forms. I am not referring only to roundness or smoothness, I am talking about the focus on appearance. So very many IMA practitioners are taken in by perfect displays of perfectly performed and choreographed forms in competitions, usually in exaggeratedly low postures. But that is nothing more than posturing, as I am sure you are aware. What is important is what is taking place energetically. As I said, people often mistake a high level practitioner for a charlatan and criticise their forms for lacking flow and grace, and even for not respecting the Taiji principles. But they do not understand the possibility and indeed necessity to move beyond the form. At that point, there may be hardly a vestige of the original movement. In the case of the Flying Phoenix, what is it that one is endeavouring to achieve, do you think? For me, one of the things I actually experience within my practice is the discovery of stillness within movement and movement arising out of stillness. Thus one is actually enacting the separation of Wuji into Taiji. This is not something I would expect anyone to teach me, it was something I could not have understood without actually experiencing it first hand in my own being. These are the sorts of things I tried to share on the FPCK thread, but fell on deaf ears. How marvellous it would have been instead of being met by incredulity and suspicion that all such discoveries could have been shared as brothers of these arts! Alas, that was not to be. Quote So correct me if I am wrong here. You condemn Sifu Terry's fascination and high-spirited elaboration of Western mystical traditions as occultism, which by definition means secret doctrines and teachings, but on the other keep on insisting that GMDW has been with-holding secrets from his former students that are now going to be spilled out for everyone with enough ca$h by your new mystical infatuation, the supposed Kriyayoga master Ausar. Occultism here and there. Is this not glaring hypocrisy? I really fail to understand how you can compare these two polar opposites in order to demonstrate your argument. Are you not aware of the difference between Crowlean occultism and high level cultivation, or have you been totally brainwashed by your exposure to this? Are you not able to understand that Aleistair Crowley was a magus who had a great deal of knowledge, deep knowledge, but he lacked the virtue to be drawn to a real cultivation tradition. He allowed his hatred for the Abrahamic religions to embitter him, and he sought only to manipulate, control and destroy the lives of those around him. He wielded enormous power, but used it to gain influence and achieve his perverse personal ends. He had great potential, but never realised it, regardless of what his sycophants want to believe. And he has left a totally corrupt legacy in our world, one which affects every genuine seeker of truth, because thanks to him and his work with HP Blavatsky and her protegée Alice Bailey we now have the New Age movement, Reiki, the Great White Brotherhood and the Ascended masters and all the rest of the crap people are spoonfed when they go in search of truth. So don't expect me to respect someone who purports to be a high level initiate of a Daoist cultivation tradition who hero worships and adulates the likes of Crowley on a thread which is supposed to be dedicated to a sacred celestial cultivation art, because it does not wash with me. You are not talking to an adolescent ignoramus. I too went through my phase of Crowley worship. The difference is that I went through it at the age of 12, around the same time I avidly read every occult treatise I could lay my hands on. And I also practised ceremonial ritual magick, and I know precisely the nature the entities Crowley was invoking in his magickal workings, as well as the risks involved. But I have grown out of it and learned how to research and think for myself, and not be limited to information gained from online forums such as TTB. On the other hand, I agree with the example of the Teachings of Don Juán to Carlos Castañeda being a good explanation of the way these energies manifest and how they can be manipulated by the intention. Why? Because I have studied the Magical Passes, and am aware that their creator was in fact a martial arts practitioner. Quote I have met many people who can actually see energy and have had this ability since birth. Are you sure you are not here projecting your own prejudices about medical clairvoyants? I have met many clairvoyants, but this may be a question of incorrect terminology. Master Kam Chuen Lam, one of my Yiquan masters had the ability to see Qi and manipulate it within the energy body of each of his students and patients. That is not what I would in any way describe as clairvoyance - medical or otherwise. Master Lam is a high level master whose level of cultivation enabled this ability in him. There are many many masters with this ability, but I mentioned him because I trained with him for several hours a day from 3 to 5 days a week every week for over 6 years. Although I never developed that skill, I do perceive Qi as golden light, but only with my eyes open, and only on rare occasions. But I can feel energy, I have mastered the art of 'ting' - listening with the hands. Quote Complete hyperbole without any evidence, and there is actually proof for the opposite. As you have followed the FPCK thread for years, you should be well aware that Sifu Terry, for example, is an initiated Daoist Priest and a skilled master in the Tao Tan Pai tradition long before learning from GMDW. Excuse me...did you just call him a master? Is that with a capital M? So tell me, how do you know that Terry Dunn is in fact a Master? No doubt you will have heard the expression "it takes a Buddha to recognise another Buddha", so are you also a Master? You see, a Master does not behave in the way Terry Dunn behaves, because he their attainment in cultivation makes frees them of personal ego and attachment. Are you trying to say that Terry Dunn is an awakened liberated Master? No, I am sure that is not what you are saying. But it is what he would like others to believe. Quote Master Share K. Lew, the late head of Tao Tan Pai, was also in very good terms with GMDW and hence there has been no mistake nor misjudgement about the high qualification and attainment Sifu Terry already had before learning from GMDW. Well my friend, actions speak louder than words. If you don't have the eyes to see, then be happy with the choice you have made and model yourself on that example of mastery. Quote So if you can't have, then no one else may have either? It is all a matter of personal choice. At each level of my development I have met with masters of different levels, each according to my own needs and karmic lessons to be worked through at the time. "When the student is ready, the master appears." But the master here as far as I am concerned is GM Doo Wai, not Terry Dunn or any of his instructors, disciples or students. Quote Excellent work, my young padawan. Such honorable conduct as yours will surely cherish and enrich any self-respecting family and their inherited arts. As I said before, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. If you are incapable of expressing yourself in other terms, that is your problem, deal with it. You have the attitude of being so much older and wiser than I am, so how old are you actually, and tell me a little about your training history. If you want to laud it over me, then you are going to have to come up with a reason why I should allow you to talk to me as though I were a spotty youth...I wish!!!! Quote There has been no drama other than your persistent self-aggrandizing confusion and persecution complex. I think no one has anything against you, even though your manners have been very poor. I wonder when you are going to stop trying to insult and belittle me and make public aspersions on my character? I decided to edit out what I originally wrote here, purely to save the moderators the trouble, and in order not to rise to your baiting. Quote Let me get this straight. Are you accusing that Sifu Terry is or has been trying to force GMDW to present inauthentic certifications and lie to Youtube watchers? No, I am stating that from the video uploaded by Terry Dunn it is clear that GM Doo Wai is in a bad way and having difficulty even talking, nevertheless Terry Dunn is obviously putting pressure on GM Doo Wai and putting words into his mouth with the obvious intention of having GM Doo Wai declare Terry Dunn and the other instructors on his list the only instructors authorised to teach Bak Fu Pai or the Flying Phoenix. I confess that I could not watch the video to the end, because it sickened me to the stomach, and as a result left me with no respect whatsoever for Terry Dunn, which is why you will have noticed that I have ceased to honour him with the title Sifu. Quote Would you like to talk more about your feelings and your opinion of the proper place of everyone? Yes, I would love to. It seems to me that those appointed to carry on this august tradition seem to have lost sight of the fact that whatever their self aggrandising ideas of self importance, not one of them actually has been taught the entire content of even one of the branches of the vast system of Bak Fu Pai and the other arts which GM Doo Wai alone preserves. It is as simple as that, whatever you or anyone else would like to believe. You see, you do not understand why it was that GM Doo Wai could not teach everything to any of his disciples. You have no idea of the karmic implications involved, nor the consequences of putting these teachings into the wrong hands. You may believe Ausar to be a fraud, but I am sure that you have also not given him the opportunity to explain anything to you, nor have you actually taken the trouble to visit the website and at least read what is being expressed. You have allowed yourself to be prejudiced by hearsay and the involvement of large sums of money into throwing the baby out with the proverbial bath water. But what Ausar actually says in my own words is that after the task of preserving the Buddha Dharma passed from the Shaolin to the Daoist schools, it was Bak Fu Pai which then undertook the preservation of the Dharma. But the energies required for that belong to the White Tiger martial arts, and it was these arts which GM Doo Wai taught to his disciples. That roughly corresponds to the Golden Lotus, which is basically the earthly manifestation of the Lotus. However, once the Daoist cultivation further purified the practitioners, the energies of the Golden Lotus were no longer sufficiently pure to allow further progress toward the Dao. Thus the White Lotus is required in order to achieve purity and awakening. According to Ausar, there remains no vestige of the martial aspects found in the anterior phases of development, as now we are dealing with the pure White light of the White Lotus. The systems associated with the meditations previously taught have one thing in common. They are complicated lengthy practices requiring the practitioner to memorise many breath control sequences and many meditations. But these have now been synthesised into easy to learn and practice forms which combine the essence of each of the meditations in a single, very powerful form. What made the original forms more powerful and effective than other systems was the combination of powerful mudras with the breath control sequences. But there is one aspect missing from those systems. If you want to know what that is, you are going to have to humble yourself and ask Ausar himself, because I have no authorisation to have said anything that I have said so far, and I am not even a student of Ausar's, let alone a paid shill, as Terry Dunn accused me of being on the FPCK thread following my defense of Ausar's character. In all honesty, just attend one of the free weekly Darshans and listen to what he has to say, and give yourself the opportunity to decide what you feel about him based upon that experience, rather than fear or peer pressure. That is what I did, and it gave me the opportunity to observe what sort of person Ausar is, and the quality of his communication and the type of energies he is transmitting. Incidentally I had not attended a Darshan prior to my post in defence of Ausar. I felt morally obligated to stand up in his defence because that is what my cultivation showed me was the proper thing to do in that situation. So what anyone else thinks about that really does not matter to me, it is purely a question of doing what feels right and opposing what feels unjust and wrong. I am also genuinely concerned that Terry Dunn has felt the need to obtain complete control of a thread which he did not even start himself, and take it upon himself to alter the content of that thread by removing other people's posts and contributions. I am equally concerned that the TTB moderators have shown considerable bias without actually taking the time and trouble to investigate the context in which this situation arose. So all this is drama, it is a very serious matter, and one which has forced me to take the decision to remove myself from the only source of information to be found online in which to share experiences with fellow practitioners and learn and grow together. Quote This is the wisest and a genuinely useful bit in your recent writings. Maybe you should read it again and examine throughout how it relates to your own conduct and discipline? What gives you the right to judge me on any level or make disparaging remarks about my conduct and discipline? Who gives you that authority? You now know a little more about me, but you have no idea who I am or what I have endured or what I have experienced, or what I may or may not have achieved. Quote This is not universally true. I know for certain that there are Buddhist tantras and dzogchen meditation that have very low demands on physical capacity or health. When we are talking about Daoist cultivation, and in case you did not realise it, we are - sound health is a prerequisite in order to sustain the Neidan and Neigong practices and have the necessary energy to cultivate the immortal embryo. Quote Very profound, you are on the trace. The last line especially is crucially important. Since you did not take the trouble to quote me, I have no idea to what you are referring, but thank you anyway. Quote Sifus always look to reach dedicated and enthusiastic students who are trustworthy, loyal, and morally cultivated people. Such students will cherish and conserve all the teachings without complaint and will not ask when and what to receive because such is the love for their Sifu and the tradition. To quote you, this is not universally true. This is a rather naïve view, based upon qualities Sifus should have, in the best of possible worlds. But the truth of the matter is that Sifus are only human. They are just as much subject to corruption and temptation as anyone else, despite the high morality associated with their tradition - if indeed they have one. The very real pressures of living in society are wont to change people, often for the worst, and greed has all too often raised its ugly head and spoilt the qualities of someone who might otherwise have turned out to be an excellent teacher and example to his students. Then there is the example of Sifus who deliberately withhold information as I have said before, so that there is little chance of any of them surpassing them and usurping their position and authority. This happens far more often than most would like to admit, and many many masters simply mount seminars extemporising and expanding upon a topic in order to give it an aura of importance which will dupe the unwary into parting with their hard earned cash in return for very little, in terms of what the student will take away with them. And thinking that they have obtained the golden nugget, they then pass that information to their own students, and so it continues. As I said before, in order to judge the attainment of a master one needs to have a degree of attainment oneself - it is a vicious cycle, and one which masters and sifus know full well how to exploit, especially with ignorant western students. I have actually witnessed this first hand, and it made me turn my back on one of my masters after having spent years at his side. I have no idea which culture you come from (actually, reading back through your post I now believe I do), but if you are lucky enough to be Asian, it is unlikely that what I am saying will resonate with your experience, because it is unlikely that you would be subjected to this to the same extent, if at all. But it must be said that there is a considerable amount of racism among the Chinese toward the 'Foreign Devils', and they make no bones about making that quite obvious if you compare the attention given to a Chinese student with the attention a non Chinese will receive. Now I am not talking about them necessarily spending more time with a Chinese student, because the truth is that in most cases this would be unnecessary. What most sets us apart from our Chinese MA brothers is the fact that they understand 'monkey do'. In other words they rarely question, and simply do what they are shown, and they have no need for a scientifically sound explanation of why something should be so - they simply accept it and do what is required. Because of this, they tend to learn more quickly and are treated with more respect by the instructor. We on the other hand always feel the need to understand all the ins and outs of everything they try to teach us, and so they see us as lacking in self discipline and obedience, and dominated by our monkey minds. But this is a cultural issue both need to come to terms with. Quote You know the best. I know nothing. I simply speak what appears to my consciousness. Knowledge within the dualistic world has only very limited importance within the purview of cultivation practice. I remain constantly open minded, because I am aware of the state of constant flux and change of our world as we experience it in our unawakened state, and I understand that the true nature of existence is one of limitless possibility. So I may be right or wrong - it does not matter. What does matter is that one continues to learn and grow from each experience, every challenge and confrontation. I am always willing to listen and learn from anyone capable of expressing themselves, but I do not suffer fools gladly, and I cannot abide falsehood injustice and hypocrisy. Probably the result of over emphasis on the LDT... Edited July 12, 2018 by DSCB57 save the moderators time and effort 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 12, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 11:07 AM, Leif said: Maybe you have misread what I wrote. I wrote that ChW is representative of WBBM for Europe, not that he was appointed by GMDW. You asked who was trained to a high level in Doo family arts. ChW certainly was trained to a high enough level, at least by their standards if not yours, in some of the Doo family arts, otherwise he wouldn't be appointed by WBBM/GH who is defacto a lineage holder. He is also a teacher on some of their videos (eg. Bak Fu Sunn Yee Gung). Here is a list of sifus, authorized as of around 1998 (though of course it's very unlikely any of them is in Europe), significantly larger than the list voiced by GMDW on the Skype call recently: http://web.archive.org/web/19980709125431/www.bakfupai.com/shifu.html A bit old but contacts for some of them (CT, MG, DD,..) can be still be found online. Good lord, do I need to quote myself from the first post? I asked for information about high level instructors who had been taught by GM Doo Wai. Clear enough for you? So just how does Sifu Christer fit that description? Thank you for the list of contacts nevertheless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 12, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 10:48 AM, virtue said: I forgot address this earlier. Quote The demonstration speed is for the sake of learning. If he moved slower, it would be bad for establishing muscle memory. Maybe I recall this wrong, but Sifu Terry has also stated that the FP energy can move advanced practitioners a bit faster and still impart same effects. OK, fine. Then I would like to see a video by Terry Dunn not produced with that end in view, in which he simply allows himself to practice the form for real. It is not only a question of the pace of movement, but the quality of the movement and the way the energy emanates from the practitioner during the practice. Quote If you had reached a very high level in any internal art, then you would certainly experience that bliss ceases intoxicating you after enough karmic purity is reached. Sorry, did I ever state that I had a high level of attainment? In the case of the Five Animals (Golden Tablets) spontaneous Qigong, I would certainly agree with you, as once the energies are balanced and the meridians cleared, the 5 animals no longer manifest. But I am still experiencing bliss, albeit differently since adopting the Golden Lotus and San Gong cultivation. I would say that it is intense, but not in the same way as the Flying Phoenix from Terry Dunn's DVDs. Sorry, I am too new to these higher level meditations to be able to adequately describe the effect, but it grows stronger and more subtle each day. Quote Therefore a master wouldn't react to bliss like a beginner would. Nevertheless, it can clearly be seen that GM Doo Wai is obviously overcome by the energies he is receiving, often actually struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness. That has also been my experience, pretty much right from the start, if you read my early contributions to the FPCK thread. How did Terry Dunn react? He criticised me and told me that I was practising incorrectly. If he had the level he would like everyone to believe he does, he would have been able to tune in to me and perceive what was actually causing this in my specific case. In fact I recall that another practitioner followed my post with one of his own in which he said that he was also experiencing this. The fact is that this experience was also accompanied by the experiences I recently described (or reiterated, as I had already described them at length on the FPCK thread) of understanding the meaning of stillness in movement and movement arising from stillness. That information should have been sufficiently revealing for a consummate master to have been able to provide me with the necessary information to help me progress to the next level. Instead I was publicly upbraided and made to lose face. Well, as karma would have it, now the favour has been returned... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
senseless virtue Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Did you actually read what I wrote? I acknowledged that practising Volumes 1 through 7 of the FPCK meditations... Yes I read. Do you wish to elaborate now how did you practice your FP meditations? 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned excellence in relation to Terry Dunn, nor would I... I didn't put any words into your mouth. But this praise did come out of your own mouth: On 4/23/2017 at 6:20 PM, DSCB57 said: once I encountered such a potent art as the Bak Fu Pai Flying Phoenix system - not to mention with a master willing to impart the real practice. Which way the wind blows today, I wonder? 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I did not criticise the material presented by Terry Dunn within its own context, other than to remark that I had never seen Terry Dunn perform these meditations in the same way as one can see GM Doo Wai perform them. I said that Terry Dunn maintains his focus upon perfection of the form, just as one does in any art, but from my experience of the Flying Phoenix energies, this has little or nothing to do with that sort of focus. Once the FP energy is moving you, rather than you trying to remember the form from Terry Dunn's DVDs, I do not feel that one need focus on correctness of movement, because the form itself will teach your body how to follow the FP energy. I have never seen that in either Terry Dunn's demonstrations nor any of his students. My congratulations for mastering both energy and anecdotal claims unlike anyone else. A rare accomplishment, but I now see why you are so attracted to Ausar. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I also said that it was Garry Hearfield whose Bak Fu Pai sitting meditation performed at the pace of a shifting sand dune was my first taste of what that actually meant, and I said and continue to say that this was what inspired me to experience that for myself, and whether anyone else wishes to believe me or not, I did in fact achieve that eventually, and documented the fact soon after on the FPCK thread. Maybe Sunn Ye Gung fits you better than Flying Phoenix. Not every style of practice fits everyone. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Now to return to the point you just made - Terry Dunn touts this system as being high level cultivation. You yourself have just admitted that this is a branch of Flying Phoenix which is aimed at beginners to cultivation. What I am saying is that Terry Dunn should make that fact clear, because many people dedicating years of their lives to practising these meditations sincerely believe what Terry Dunn is saying, which is that they are ultimately capable of enlightening and even liberating the practitioner. That is not true, and neither is it true that this is high level cultivation or that it involves inner alchemy such as Neidan, because at this level it does not. It is a high level cultivation system. Your lack of results only speaks for your practice alone. The DVDs are clearly made for beginners. In contrast, Sifu Terry has repeatedly offered to impart advanced teachings in person when the student is ready after mastering the basic material. Gaining enlightenment and liberation are the highest imaginable goals. Sifu Terry and my other teachers have always spoken that finding a correct yogic practice is only one part of the required work. The role of proper personal counsel by an advanced or even an enlightened master can never be replaced. Dhyana-samadhis, which are greatly facilitated by the unique Flying Phoenix system, are in fact complete Buddhist correspondences to the three Daoist dantians and their alchemical function. Hence the FP meditations are not lacking in terms of any spiritual or alchemical cultivation. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I really fail to understand how you can compare these two polar opposites in order to demonstrate your argument. Sure I can. Sifu Terry and Grandmaster Doo Wai are in perfect polar opposition to the deception and darkness of Ausar. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: You are not talking to an adolescent ignoramus. Right, but did you know that you are writing to an adolescent ignoramus with a highly cultivated ego and anecdotal self-centered opinions? 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I have met many clairvoyants, but this may be a question of incorrect terminology. I agree: your relation to dictionary is lacking. Clairvoyance literally means "clear seeing." It seems you have confused the word clairvoyance with mediumship or channeling. It's true that clarvoyance can be accomplished through various means including channeling, but this has been the first time when someone has claimed to me that clairvoyance has anything particular to do with channeling low-level astral entities or dabbling like that. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Excuse me...did you just call him a master? Is that with a capital M? So tell me, how do you know that Terry Dunn is in fact a Master? No doubt you will have heard the expression "it takes a Buddha to recognise another Buddha", so are you also a Master? You see, a Master does not behave in the way Terry Dunn behaves, because he their attainment in cultivation makes frees them of personal ego and attachment. Are you trying to say that Terry Dunn is an awakened liberated Master? No, I am sure that is not what you are saying. But it is what he would like others to believe. You should be fully aware of the distinction between being a skilled master of an art, be it carpentry or kungfu, and a fully realized master. There is the specific mastery of skill and then being enlightened. These terms are often called siddha (accomplishment) and mahasiddha (great accomplishment) in Sanskrit, but you probably already knew this. Why are you so easily confused then? My usage of the term was absolutely clear in the context it was provided. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: At each level of my development I have met with masters of different levels, each according to my own needs and karmic lessons to be worked through at the time. Ausar can be a powerful lesson, no doubt. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: You have the attitude of being so much older and wiser than I am... Hardly. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I wonder when you are going to stop trying to insult and belittle me and make public aspersions on my character? I decided to edit out what I originally wrote here, purely to save the moderators the trouble, and in order not to rise to your baiting. Nothing I have written was meant to be baiting, insulting, or dealing with your character, although I can agree that calling you "my young padawan" was sarcastic and out of place in contrast to the rest of my text. I can apologize if your sensibilities have been hurt. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: You see, you do not understand why it was that GM Doo Wai could not teach everything to any of his disciples. You have no idea of the karmic implications involved, nor the consequences of putting these teachings into the wrong hands. I don't claim to understand and probably would have no idea either. I see. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: You may believe Ausar to be a fraud, but I am sure that you have also not given him the opportunity to explain anything to you, nor have you actually taken the trouble to visit the website and at least read what is being expressed. You have allowed yourself to be prejudiced by hearsay and the involvement of large sums of money into throwing the baby out with the proverbial bath water. You seemingly didn't pay attention in the Flying Phoenix thread, but I already disclosed that your darshan master Ausar had creatively fabricated a price explanation video to one of his expensive scams, which was called "Blue Buddha Ascending to Heaven". The article in question is now removed because the scam was detected, but it can still be reached through Google cache and the video itself is visible here. The video has GMDW talking about monetary value, but it has been completely divorced from its original context which is the Chi Materialization art. What do you have to say for that deception and trying to cover it up when it blew? 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: In all honesty, just attend one of the free weekly Darshans and listen to what he has to say, and give yourself the opportunity to decide what you feel about him based upon that experience, rather than fear or peer pressure. That is what I did, and it gave me the opportunity to observe what sort of person Ausar is, and the quality of his communication and the type of energies he is transmitting. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of minor mystics offering some sorts of energy transmission via Youtube. I can believe that your benefactor can do something similar, so that few unfortunate and gullible people are falling for the trick. My advice has always been to verify the source of blessings and only get transmissions from fully realized masters, unless you want to be branded with samsaric energies. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: What gives you the right to judge me on any level or make disparaging remarks about my conduct and discipline? I have made no judgement or disparaging remarks other than the padawan bit. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: To quote you, this is not universally true. This is a rather naïve view, based upon qualities Sifus should have, in the best of possible worlds. But the truth of the matter is that Sifus are only human. They are just as much subject to corruption and temptation as anyone else... There is an inward and outward dimension to terms master, guru, and sifu. The inward meaning can only be known through love, and the elaborate scenarios that you talk about relate only to the outward accomplishments where love is not present. Interesting monology, but not relevant to true sifus who are not teacher-fathers by title only. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I know nothing. For having nothing to sell, you peddle many wares. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: I simply speak what appears to my consciousness. Knowledge within the dualistic world has only very limited importance within the purview of cultivation practice. I remain constantly open minded, because I am aware of the state of constant flux and change of our world as we experience it in our unawakened state, and I understand that the true nature of existence is one of limitless possibility. So I may be right or wrong - it does not matter. Pure nihilistic trolling at its finest. 16 hours ago, DSCB57 said: Nevertheless, it can clearly be seen that GM Doo Wai is obviously overcome by the energies he is receiving, often actually struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness. That has also been my experience, pretty much right from the start, if you read my early contributions to the FPCK thread. How did Terry Dunn react? He criticised me and told me that I was practising incorrectly. If he had the level he would like everyone to believe he does, he would have been able to tune in to me and perceive what was actually causing this in my specific case. In fact I recall that another practitioner followed my post with one of his own in which he said that he was also experiencing this. The fact is that this experience was also accompanied by the experiences I recently described (or reiterated, as I had already described them at length on the FPCK thread) of understanding the meaning of stillness in movement and movement arising from stillness. That information should have been sufficiently revealing for a consummate master to have been able to provide me with the necessary information to help me progress to the next level. Instead I was publicly upbraided and made to lose face. Well, as karma would have it, now the favour has been returned... Such disrespect and you are probably still completely oblivious to it. Are you for real saying that a Kungfu grandmaster in good health would be "struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness"? Do you realize how absurd things you are saying and projecting out? I am posting here Sifu Terry's generous advice again: On 4/21/2017 at 11:07 AM, zen-bear said: Continue practicing Bending the Bows with as much concentration as you can muster to keep consciousness and your count of repetitions straight. Staying alert and not dozing off or trancing out is an essential part of the FPCK mental training. Just persevere. On 4/21/2017 at 11:25 AM, zen-bear said: As I explained to DSCB57, starting conscious and alert and keeping the count of a particular FP Meditation's repetitions is an important part of the mental training--as important as memorizing the breath control sequence for each meditation. Just persevere with your practice, increase your concentration on the counting the reps accurately until you can count accurately consistently. Brain activation may reach phenomenal intensity and the Universe may be reshaping itself all around you, and your body might be shaking, quaking and tossing like you're possessed And riding the mechanical bull at Gilley's...but keep your count of the repetitions straight. You can bliss out, trance out, incinerate each and every hair follicle, slow your heart rate to a standstill, and commune with spirits in the Pleiades, but concentrate enough to keep your counting of earthly repetitions accurate! Sifu Terry gave you here the only correct advice. The purpose of all yogic training is to permanently elevate your awareness and consciousness, not to shut it out. To do otherwise is a deviant path, which is what all my Buddhist teachers have directly either stated to me or would agree with no question. 17 hours ago, DSCB57 said: What has held me back in my cultivation has been ill health since I was born, and quite a severe spinal condition which would leave most people in a wheel chair. I am very sorry for your misfortune and poor health. Since you mention spinal problems, it's my sincere recommendation that you seek the face-to-face help of Stillness-Movement teacher Michael Lomax (Ya Mu on TDB): qigongamerica.com. He has much experience in treating spinal diseases and may be able to give you some degree of permanent improvement. Read his or Brion's (kempomaster) accounts on this forum how effective their treatments can be. Good luck to you with everything. Edited July 13, 2018 by virtue 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 14, 2018 14 hours ago, virtue said: Yes I read. Do you wish to elaborate now how did you practice your FP meditations? Certainly, if you mean by that what was my approach to my practice, I would answer that I practiced assiduously, mindfully and with all my heart and soul. At the outset I paid great attention to capturing as many subtleties as possible from the videos. My previous training has enabled me to capture subtle nuances, and I made full use of that. I kept a daily journal of my practice for a considerable amount of time, but eventually decided this was not the best use of my time. Now if you are asking how did I go about teaching myself the meditations, I have no problem with explaining that. Just let me know. 14 hours ago, virtue said: I didn't put any words into your mouth. But this praise did come out of your own mouth: On 23/04/2017 at 5:20 PM, DSCB57 said: once I encountered such a potent art as the Bak Fu Pai Flying Phoenix system - not to mention with a master willing to impart the real practice. Which way the wind blows today, I wonder? Look at the date of that quote. The observations I have made recently relate to my experience sharing with the FPCK community on this thread. During this period, whilst continuing to learn and practice the FPCK meditations, I was also observing the quality of instruction, attention to the needs of students, and other factors which helped shape the impression I eventually formed of Terry Dunn. To begin with, I was happy to have found this art, and had great hopes that Terry Dunn would fulfil the promise of my initial confidence in him. I read through pretty much the entire thread, taking notes, and an impression began to form in my mind in combination with my actual experience of interacting with him over several months. My attempts at communication with him were ignored, I was not even able to order the DVDs from him, as my emails and repeated personal messages were never answered. In addition to this, when he did in fact eventually respond to me on the thread it became clear that he did not make the connection between the information I had originally provided by email and my actual identity. I can understand the confusion in part, due to the fact that I changed my name to the one you see now, after which my previous identity simply vanished, along with years of previous posts on TTB under my previous name which I cannot now remember, but I do remember changing it because eventually it sounded pretentious to me, although it was sincere. I believe it was WuWei Shen. But the moderators could find no record whatsoever of either that identity or my posts. It may even have been another forum with similar content. Sometimes my aphantasia can produce this type of situation, and there is really nothing I can do about it. In any case, if you read my initial posts, you will see for yourself how long I had to wait to receive any sort of reply from Terry, and in fact I then asked for answers from any experienced practitioners, but received no reply. Eventually, as I say, Terry Dunn did begin to respond to my questions, but what people do not realise is that by the time that he did answer the number of questions had accumulated to such a point that he could never answer all of them, and many in fact did remain unanswered, which made my practice all the more difficult. Nevertheless, I persevered, and from time to time contributed to the thread with comments on other posts, questions and reports of what seemed to me to be important signposts in my cultivation practice. There was never even an acknowledgement of any of my other contributions, so eventually I just stopped contributing to the thread. I may have wrongly perceived Terry Dunn's reaction to my post regarding the pace of my meditations, but I got the distinct impression that he did not believe me, and he made remarks which I honestly felt would have been far better communicated by PM, rather than on the thread, because challenging me to provide a video as proof in the way that this was worded was something I found really offensive. I posted several times about my feeling alienated on the thread, and later provided a considerable amount of information documenting each of the questions I had raised or comments I had made which had been summarily ignored by the entire community. Had this occurred in a class situation I would have directly confronted Terry Dunn in private, as I do not accept this type of disrespect from anyone, and if this was the way I was to be treated, and he made no effort to change his attitude, then I would simply turn my back on him and leave the kwoon. But in the context of a forum like this, and given the fact that I was actually in need of answers to questions directly relating to my practice, you can imagine that my patience was beginning to wear thin. You accused me of paranoia, well, do you find it surprising, given the circumstances? Should a forum member need to beg in order to obtain the necessary attention he can see everyone else receiving? Terry Dunn was fully aware of the pain I had been suffering, and that I needed help, and must have known how difficult it would be for me to undertake this practice, and that I would therefore need a considerable amount of support. As I saw how much attention other members were receiving, when they were really contributing very little to the thread, my impression of the character of Terry Dunn as a master began to diminish. As I recognised more and more obvious character flaws, I found myself drawn toward seeking another teacher elsewhere. During this lengthy period I had been approached by several other members who agreed that I was being treated badly, and they were very kind and supportive toward me and showed me great respect. Eventually I found that I was not alone in my misgivings about Terry Dunn, and the more time went on, the more my doubts were confirmed. At one point I became so incensed by him inculcating his occult ideology on this thread that I seriously considered calling him out over it. I believe I have already expressed my opinion on this matter and done my best to explain why I have such a low opinion of Aleistair Crowley, although there is a great deal more I could add. Terry Dunn is clearly misinformed on this topic, and not taking into account the extent to which young impressionable minds of many of the new members might be affected, because there is a considerable amount of adulation which Terry actively attracts toward himself, and such members are very likely to simply accept what he tells them without question. It got to the point that I found myself having to make an effort to avoid the copious number of posts to the thread having absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Flying Phoenix system, and the more this occurred the more it irritated me. This thread is extremely lengthy, and a newcomer already has to wade through an immense amount of information in order to find anything of value. This is due to the fact that there has constantly been a tendency to treat this threat like a social media platform, with members chatting about pretty much anything that takes their fancy. This makes no sense to me whatsoever, given that this is really the only source of information for would be practitioners of this art. The final chapter in this was when I observed Terry's behaviour during the situation which has arisen surrounding Ausar. I feel that there is no way I can now accept any of his claims to be the highly evolved individual he claims to be, and for the first time ever I have withdrawn the honorary appellation of Sifu, because I no longer feel that he deserves it. Not that he was in fact ever my Sifu. He obviously took a considerable amount of time and trouble to answer my questions, but his answers came so late that the damage was done. By the time Terry eventually responded to my accusations and asked me to continue to contribute it was too late... 15 hours ago, virtue said: My congratulations for mastering both energy and anecdotal claims unlike anyone else. A rare accomplishment, but I now see why you are so attracted to Ausar. Can you not see how this might appear to me that you are continuing to insult me? You comment is once again dripping with sarcasm...maybe you cannot help yourself - possibly something you way want to address. 15 hours ago, virtue said: Maybe Sunn Ye Gung fits you better than Flying Phoenix. Not every style of practice fits everyone. I am not the slightest bit interested in learning Sunn Yee Gung thank you. I find myself resonating with the Flying Phoenix energies - it is the teacher I am not satisfied with. Again you have taken my statement out of context. Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or are you really stupid? Are you unable to read between the lines and understand that I was saying that at the time I came across that video of Garry Hearfield performing that sitting meditation it was a revelation to me, because I had never seen anything in Terry Dunn's videos even approaching the degree of serenity and total immersion in the meditation I witnessed on that video on Youtube. It is a shame it since disappeared, otherwise I could link you to it. But at the time I had already begun my Flying Phoenix training, so as I said, it simply inspired me to achieve a similar level within that art. How could you fail to glean that? 15 hours ago, virtue said: You should be fully aware of the distinction between being a skilled master of an art, be it carpentry or kungfu, and a fully realized master. There is the specific mastery of skill and then being enlightened. These terms are often called siddha (accomplishment) and mahasiddha (great accomplishment) in Sanskrit, but you probably already knew this. Why are you so easily confused then? My usage of the term was absolutely clear in the context it was provided. Yes, and I just made that distinction when I asked you whether you were referring to Terry Dunn as master with a capital M - in other words a fully realised master, or a master as in Sifu, which frankly I could call myself in other arts if I so desired. I was not confused. Anyone reading the content of this thread would be led to the conclusion that Terry Dunn is a fully realised master. This is the impression he himself promotes of himself, and my statement was to the effect that I do not believe that a fully realised master would behave as he does. And there is no way anyone could persuade me otherwise. Is he skilled in martial arts? I would hope so, but the idea many forum members and students have of him far surpasses the status of Sifu. Hence my statements and my reaction to your description. Quote Nothing I have written was meant to be baiting, insulting, or dealing with your character, although I can agree that calling you "my young padawan" was sarcastic and out of place in contrast to the rest of my text. I can apologize if your sensibilities have been hurt. I have made no judgement or disparaging remarks other than the padawan bit. For having nothing to sell, you peddle many wares. - Impertinence with intent to cause offence. I agree: your relation to dictionary is lacking. Insulting criticism Pure nihilistic trolling at its finest. - insult My congratulations for mastering both energy and anecdotal claims unlike anyone else. A rare accomplishment, but I now see why you are so attracted to Ausar. Insult and sarcasm Above are a few quotes from comments just from your last post which I find insulting. Perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding. Quite frankly, if you were saying what you have said to me in person I would assume you wanted to cross hands with me. It is not a question of hurting my sensibilities it is a question of crossing the line and being deliberately impertinent and offensive. This is about loss of face, something you should understand. Or do you really think that you could get away with talking the way you have been to a complete stranger who you know is a martial artist without them taking offence? You seem to believe so, just like all the armchair warriors who fill forums like these. I'd just like to let you know that I am not one of them, and even in my condition you really don't want to fuck with me, I can assure you. 15 hours ago, virtue said: You seemingly didn't pay attention in the Flying Phoenix thread, but I already disclosed that your darshan master Ausar had creatively fabricated a price explanation video to one of his expensive scams, which was called "Blue Buddha Ascending to Heaven". The article in question is now removed because the scam was detected, but it can still be reached through Google cache and the video itself is visible here. The video has GMDW talking about monetary value, but it has been completely divorced from its original context which is the Chi Materialization art. What do you have to say for that deception and trying to cover it up when it blew? As I already told you, I removed myself from the thread. I only returned once, and that was when I was informed that Terry Dunn had uploaded a video of him in a Skype conversation with GM Doo Wai. Since watching as much as I could of that before it turned my stomach over, I have never returned to the thread, so no, I have not been following events and have no idea what this is all about. I watched the video in the link you provided, but I fail to see how it connects to Ausar, as it only shows a discourse by a very much younger GM Doo Wai. The only information I managed to dig up on the subject of the Blue Buddha Ascending to Heaven was this, taken from Ausar's Facebook page: Blue Buddha Ascending to Heaven – A Legendary System of “Fire Samadhi” and a Relic of the Shaolin Temple – Now Available in complete form with all 18 levels released for the first time in history.Removes all Karmic Hindrances, Cultivates the Light body and manifests the ability to ignite objects on fire with the palm and with the mind. Is this the subject matter of the video which was removed from Ausar's website? I would need you to explain the situation for me and how the two videos relate to one another in order to be able to comment. Now my question to you: How did Ausar manage to come by the photographs showing him in such an intimate situation with GM Doo Wai, and the video material showing him being instructed by GM Doo Wai? I have never met GM Doo Wai in person, but having been a professional artist I have a very good eye for detail, and I believe that I have seen a sufficient number of photographs taken throughout the years, as well as videos showing his features to be able to define that the eyes and bone structure are of the same person. To me the person in both the photographs and the videos appears to be GM Doo Wai. The quality of the video uploaded by Terry Dunn of the Skype conversation was of very poor quality, whereas the video uploaded by Ausar is very clear. And one can clearly see that GM Doo Wai is actually physically touching Ausar's arm at one point in the video, in order to correct a movement in the form Ausar is learning. Faking that is not impossible, but it would require great expertise and incur considerable expense. Frankly given the very few students that Ausar has, I really don't see the point in going to so much trouble to create such an elaborate scam. And who would risk incurring the wrath of GM Doo Wai or indeed other members of his lineage and possible legal action in order to do this? It just does not make sense to me and I find this really perplexing. 16 hours ago, virtue said: Right, but did you know that you are writing to an adolescent ignoramus with a highly cultivated ego and anecdotal self-centered opinions? Well, if the hat fits....thank you for confirming my suspicions young Padawan. 16 hours ago, virtue said: There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of minor mystics offering some sorts of energy transmission via Youtube. I can believe that your benefactor can do something similar, so that few unfortunate and gullible people are falling for the trick. My advice has always been to verify the source of blessings and only get transmissions from fully realized masters, unless you want to be branded with samsaric energies. There are also many who do so in person and manage to pull the wool over people's eyes, I quite agree with you. But your statement once again begs the question: what attainment do you have to allow you to discern whether a master is fully realised or not? Certainly there are character traits which may be a dead giveaway, but I am intrigued to know how many such master you know of? Quote There is an inward and outward dimension to terms master, guru, and sifu. The inward meaning can only be known through love, and the elaborate scenarios that you talk about relate only to the outward accomplishments where love is not present. Interesting monology, but not relevant to true sifus who are not teacher-fathers by title only. You seem to be living in a dream world my friend. Or perhaps I was correct and you are Chinese and have never had to wade through swathes of false teachers whose only desire is wealth and fame. I do know the difference. I have had the fortune to train with some real high level Sifus, but the majority made me waste many years of practice, not getting back what I was putting in. That is all too often the case in the UK where I spent most of my life. Not only that, but you are also forgetting that things change over time. When I began my training around the age of 20 around 1977 things were very different, and people understood far less about these matters than they do today - there was no Internet, and most information came through personal contact or books and magazines, or sometimes rarely, video footage. There was very little knowledge of what real Gongfu was, so masters started springing up everywhere teaching absolute crap and getting away with it. In fact I am only talking about Gongfu, but in fact I started off with various Karate styles when I was in my teens before that. I am sure that you cannot possibly imagine the minefield one was confronted with in the search for something authentic... If you are fortunate enough to live in the USA, then I really doubt that it would have been anything like as difficult to find a real Sifu than it was for seekers like me. Nevertheless, I did gain the respect of several Sifus in London's China Town, and maintained a wonderful relationship with them for many years. But being Gwai Loh they could not teach me. I carry the scars from bad training, hard gongfu conditioning without Ditdajow which left my legs ruined and broken limbs from sparring in full contact competition before I was really ready. But that was many years ago, and since then I was fortunate enough to eventually learn from some pretty good instructors, some of them very high level. I stayed the course and paid my dues. Around 1987-'88 I finally moved away from Shaolin Gongfu to the IMA and never looked back. But my experience has been that even masters with real skill and attainment do not necessarily have impeccability - as I said, everyone has their price, and all too many eventually sell out. It was the introduction of these arts to the western world, and in particular to the highly materialistic values of our society which have made this type of corruption possible. Exceptions are very rare. For the most part greed is the name of the game. Quote Such disrespect and you are probably still completely oblivious to it. Are you for real saying that a Kungfu grandmaster in good health would be "struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness"? Do you realize how absurd things you are saying and projecting out? Look you silly little twat I am really beginning to lose my patience with you, I am not going to risk a lawsuit by posting a video of GM Doo Wai in which this can clearly be seen, instead I will provide an example: Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix Volume 4 Seated meditation 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. If you cannot see what I have quite accurately described you are obviously blind as well as slow witted. Listen, I am not prepared to waste any more of my time and energy replying out of courtesy to your posts. I have already explained how many hours it takes me to write due to my inner dialogue, and I am not prepared to sacrifice my nights sleep in order to continue to defend my position against someone who clearly has a closed mind and thinks they know it all. So good luck to you as well, and thank you for your time and energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 14, 2018 To all those actively participating in or following this thread: In order to avoid any further misconceptions arising regarding my comments in this thread, I would like to make some points about the chronological order of events: 1. I started this thread on 2/4/2018. The motive for my having started this thread was the fact that I was becoming tired and dissatisfied with having to rely uniquely on the FPCK thread for information and support regarding this system. At this time I was still practising Terry Dunn's FPCK meditations, and felt I was making good progress, given my circumstances - i.e. learning the system purely from the DVD material. Having at that point had no exposure to any other Flying Phoenix practices, I was still under the impression that Terry Dunn's statements regarding the Flying Phoenix meditations presented on the FPCK thread regarding the nature and efficacy of Volumes 1 through 7 were correct and truthful. At that point however, two years into my practice, I had engaged in discourses with several members questioning why it should take so long to complete these meditations, and whether this was indeed as powerful a system as we were being told on the FPCK thread. 2. On 1/7/2018 as a result of someone reading my contributions to this thread I was very kindly given access to some of GM Doo Wai's high level cultivation videos, and at that point began to practice some of the meditations. It was my experience from a couple of day's practice of the San Gong, Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix, 690AD Doo Family Healing meditations etc., that I immediately noticed the difference between these systems and those I had been practising over the past 2 years from Terry Dunn's DVDs. 3. The discourse provided on some of these videos produced by Shen on behalf of GM Doo Wai state that these systems are more powerful, more effective and quicker to obtain the desired results than those of the Flying Phoenix system. GM Doo Wai himself makes this statement. I stated that I found from my short exposure to these meditations that these were accurate and truthful statements describing what one can expect from practising the material on these DVDs, and from this I reasoned that had I been exposed to these meditations rather than Terry Dunn's FPCK meditations, I would in all probability have experienced more profound healing effects and may have been at a different level of cultivation as a result of such practice than I had reached after two years practising Terry Dunn's FPCK system. From that point on, I began to question openly why Terry Dunn's material is presented in its advertising as being high level cultivation, when clearly it involves a far more time consuming process and more time to actually benefit from the practice than it would take to produce more powerful effects using any one of the systems presented on the high level cultivation videos produced by or on behalf of GM Doo Wai himself. Thus it can be seen that my access to these video materials had nothing to do with the motives for my having started this thread. It also had absolutely nothing to do with Ausar having contacted me via one of his students, although coincidentally that contact was made on 1/7/2018. Finding it rather difficult to chose from among the videos I had been given access to, I took advantage of the introduction to Ausar to ask him which of GM Doo Wai's high level cultivation videos he thought were most powerful and appropriate for someone at my level of cultivation and in my state of health. He recommended the Golden Flying Phoenix and Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix meditations, and confirmed my suspicion that these would be far more effective for healing my spinal condition and advancing my cultivation than Terry Dunn's FPCK meditations. I took a considerable amount of time and effort working through these videos and recompiling them in order to make them easier to learn and assimilate. This involved editing out unintelligible parts of the videos and attempting to render them more useful to my needs by reversing the image etc., then actually defining the point at which each meditation begins and ends - something which is not always clear on these videos. As a result of my observations during this process, in conversation with Virtue on this thread, I made reference to the content of these videos (assuming that he too had access to them, or had at least watched them), and pointed out the fact that in several of these videos GM Doo Wai can be seen "struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness". I actually provided more of a description originally, but since this is what Virtue quoted when he made the remark "Such disrespect and you are probably still completely oblivious to it. Are you for real saying that a Kungfu grandmaster in good health would be "struggling to keep moving and maintain consciousness"? Do you realize how absurd things you are saying and projecting out?", I am going to continue using that quote from my original comment in order to demonstrate how wrong these allegations are regarding my perceived disrespectful behaviour toward GM Doo Wai: It may be that my actual description, being purely subjective does not precisely tally with another viewer's observations, nevertheless, these are not disparaging or disrespectful remarks toward GM Doo Wai by any stretch of the imagination. In fact I am trying to find a point in the discourse somewhere on one of these videos in which GM Doo Wai himself says that "although it might appear that he is falling asleep, this is due to the deep relaxation induced by the high level cultivation meditations, and that this was something that the practitioner himself would also experience and was quite normal." Maybe someone can help me out by providing a more accurate reference to this? From his accusation it is clear that Virtue has no access to the videos in question, and therefore is making assumptions based upon his own limited perspective, knowledge and experience. Those assumptions are demonstrably erroneous. I would now like to request that anyone who actually does have these videos and has witnessed for themselves what I attempted to describe (or indeed anyone who may have been fortunate enough to actually be present to have observed this first hand) - GM Doo Wai being overcome by the energy of the sitting meditations such that it can be seen on many occasions that he slumps forward, his hands drop to his lap and he is seen afterwards making an effort to resume the movements of the meditations in the Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix seated meditations on Volumes 4 and 5 videos in particular - be so kind as to come forward and attest to the accuracy or inaccuracy of my statements. Whether or not another member or members chooses to come forward as requested, I now request a public apology from Virtue for having attempted to sully my reputation, and accuse me of being disrespectful toward GM Doo Wai. Virtue, let me make it patently clear to you that I will not accept any further unfounded insults or aspersions to be cast by you on my character here or anywhere else. You have been warned. Now if you have nothing to contribute to the subject matter of this thread, and your only reason for being here is to continue to try and belittle and insult me and occupy this thread for your own motives, then please just leave this thread. If you want to continue to discuss Ausar, please open your own thread so that you do not continue to invade this one. Thank you everyone for reading this and bearing witness to my statements. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShivaShakti Posted July 15, 2018 The advanced/high level Bak Fu Pai meds certainly way more powerful and stronger than Terry DVDs for sale. I started my FP in 2013, but at some point in time I moved and advanced my cultivation practice. For a beginner, Terry's DVDs are superb. But if anyone wants to advance, i think the advanced meds are appropriate--however the advanced meds are strong, and that anyone who is still beginner should be cautious. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSCB57 Posted July 15, 2018 13 hours ago, ShivaShakti said: The advanced/high level Bak Fu Pai meds certainly way more powerful and stronger than Terry DVDs for sale. I started my FP in 2013, but at some point in time I moved and advanced my cultivation practice. For a beginner, Terry's DVDs are superb. But if anyone wants to advance, i think the advanced meds are appropriate--however the advanced meds are strong, and that anyone who is still beginner should be cautious. Thank you. So may I ask you to be so kind as to corroborate the statements I made relating to the effects produced by these meditations, and whether this can in fact be observed on any of the videos produced by GM Doo Wai? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to know that people are under the impression that my comments were untruthful and disrespectful toward GM Doo Wai, so any help to clear my name would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
