Kuji-In in combination with circle walking meditation

[DSCB57]

I wondered whether the Kuji-In practice has ever been combined with a moving form such as the circle walking from Bagua Neigong? Would this cause problems, or would these two practices be compatible? After all, Bagua makes a considerable amount of use of mudras, as do most of the martial arts, but very few actually use double hand interlocking mudras such as those found in the Kuji-In practice. 

I usually practice Kuji-In in a static posture, either sitting down cross-legged or standing in some sort of horse stance, but I wondered what effect a moving form in combination with these mudras might have.

Thank you. 

[gnome]

Perhaps in the practice of mudras like Kuji In it's preferable to stand still because it starts a specific closed energetic circuit in the body that wouls be otherwise diminished if the energy had to go elsewhere like the legs for instance. It's my opinion but it seems logical that it should be done still, to have optimum results.

[gnome]

But I find it useful and relaxing to do some qigong before mudras, to keep the qi flowing and awake, so you could do bagua circle then mudras for example.

 

[Aetherous]

I only know a little...Saito martial arts seemed to have integrated the kuji-in mudras with moving forms (or else had forms that represented each mudra).

Here's a video of someone from Dragon Gate Sanctuary out of Hawaii doing a version of one of those forms: 

 

I also saw the Dragon Gate Sanctuary video for kuji-in, and they do the mudras as a seated series of breath work and arm movements. It's pretty interesting. I think that may have been from the Saitos, but could be mistaken.

I'm not sure if Dragon Gate Sanctuary is still teaching Saito arts. Maui Saito still is, in Scottsdale, AZ...although I'm not sure how much of the forms and kuji that he teaches, if any at all.

[gnome]

That looks more like bagua than anything else. Unless kung fu and tai jutsu have more in common than meets the eye...

[Jox]

For each chakra one form/kata. This is what I heard in si fu Matsuos kuji kiri video ... 

[DSCB57]

On 08/04/2018 at 6:16 PM, Aetherous said:

I only know a little...Saito martial arts seemed to have integrated the kuji-in mudras with moving forms (or else had forms that represented each mudra).

Here's a video of someone from Dragon Gate Sanctuary out of Hawaii doing a version of one of those forms: 

 

I also saw the Dragon Gate Sanctuary video for kuji-in, and they do the mudras as a seated series of breath work and arm movements. It's pretty interesting. I think that may have been from the Saitos, but could be mistaken.

I'm not sure if Dragon Gate Sanctuary is still teaching Saito arts. Maui Saito still is, in Scottsdale, AZ...although I'm not sure how much of the forms and kuji that he teaches, if any at all.

Thank you Aetherius, very interesting, although I only recognized one of the Kuji-In as the other mudras were all combinations of separate left and right, rather than combined as in Kuji-In ,. But it just goes to show that my question was not that silly  

 

On 08/04/2018 at 6:36 PM, gnome said:

That looks more like bagua than anything else. Unless kung fu and tai jutsu have more in common than meets the eye...

I agree, but then again, it is known that the Ninja originated in China, so it is possible that the Chinese version incorporated some of the Chinese IMA Neijia styles.

 

[gnome]

I don't know, at first sight it looks like a mess of different arts. Ninjutsu doesn't have katas AFAIC, and the soft arts seem also to be anti-katas, opposed to Karate. But then again Ninjutsu is a modern creation of glueing several ryuha together. It might had existed in the past like that, but no one knows for sure. Kuji-In, OTOH, is an ancient practice rooted on japanese buddhism. Maybe there's more to Matsuo than it seems, i would have to try it to find out. Meanwhile,

a little scepticism is good thing. There are many cults out there.

[DSCB57]

OK, I think it's time to provide an update. Since posting my question I decided to try it out for myself for a while. But with a little twist coming from my ongoing practice of the Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Qigong meditations.

I have become accustomed to practicing all but one of these meditations with my eyes closed, so once I got a feel for practicing the Kuji-In mudras within the Bagua walking the circle exercises, I decided to experiment with doing them with the eyes closed. In fact I only bumped into objects a couple of times, and according to my wife who was watching during my first faltering steps of practicing in this way, I was successfully manoeuvering around most of the obstacles around the periphery of my circle. 

Perhaps I should also mention that one of my objectives inherited from the FPCK practice was also to practice as slowly as possible. The FPCK meditations are meant to be practiced at what Sifu Dunn describes as 'the speed of a shifting sand dune'. In fact I probably practice more slowly than most, and so endeavoured to practice the combination of Kuji-In and Bagua circle walking in a similar way.

 

One of the primary reactions one has to contend with is the natural instinctual fear of losing one's balance or colliding with something which might result in injury. One also needs a highly developed situational awareness, in order not to overstep the limits of the circle and wind up bumping into objects just outside the periphery of the circle which one was not expecting to be there.

 

However, thanks to my practice of the Volume 4 capstone long form from FPCK which is a moving form requiring one to balance on one leg during one point in the form with the eyes remaining closed, I was able to quite quickly overcome my initial fear and settle into the meditative practice. 

Perhaps it might be worthwhile also pointing out that often I would find myself closing my eyes during my Taijiquan practice years ago, and often even during pushing hands exercises with a partner, simply because I found myself much more able to 'ting' my partner and thus develop my sensitivity. I feel that performing various types of Qigong with the eyes closed can be a very powerful way to train.

 

I also found myself adding the Daoist/Buddhist prayer mudra in between each Kuji-In mudra, and found that this helped flow better from one mudra to another, particularly as I was deliberately holding each mudra until it felt as though it had been activated, whilst maintaining my circle walking as slowly as I could manage. Invariably this meant completing at least one circle per mudra...

 

This ended up being a good work out as well as a profound meditation, due to the fact that the muscles tend to be under greater strain the slower one goes. But with momentary loss of balance which can occur as one tries to correct one's circular trajectory, there is the risk of twisting the knee in its socket which can really be painful.

I also tried practicing figure of eights and even a Bagua, but due to my aphantasia I found it really impossible to know where I was in the pattern, as I am incapable of any mental imagining - mentally blind in other words. 

All in all I would say that the Kuji-In practice seems to combine well with Bagua Circle walking, and even better with the eyes closed. But I would not advocate trying that unless you have also practiced FPCK up to that level or something similar such as Bok Fu Pai, otherwise you are unlikely to actually be able to experience this exercise as a meditation.

Edited May 30, 2018 by DSCB57
Addition of further information

[ronaldk]

 

Low level Method

The order and sequence of things is very important.
I know you could boost mudra work by doing before hand either a complete bagua form or chen style silk reeling.
Both exercices should be done with strong emphasis on silk reeling
The strong activation of the meridians will boost your mudra work.

 

High level method

if you can get your hands on the original kunlun or dragon sanctuary dvds or stuff that would be the only excepcion in which i would practise mudra and circle working for the reason that this is very strong activating and deep energy work.
Or with other words you are using a method that has been tested and works.

Other Methods

 

Some master activated usually bahui with a mudra and then  directly walk a normal bagua form or other arts.
This is extremely powerfull but if your energy systems is not balanced out.
You will get just more energy and more inbalanceit might not be a fun ride.

 

If you are balanced out it will be pure bliss

 

I will not be able to tell you more since i do not use kuji in that way.
Have a great evening

Ronaldk

 

[DSCB57]

19 hours ago, ronaldk said:

 

Low level Method

The order and sequence of things is very important.
I know you could boost mudra work by doing before hand either a complete bagua form or chen style silk reeling.
Both exercices should be done with strong emphasis on silk reeling
The strong activation of the meridians will boost your mudra work.

 

High level method

if you can get your hands on the original kunlun or dragon sanctuary dvds or stuff that would be the only excepcion in which i would practise mudra and circle working for the reason that this is very strong activating and deep energy work.
Or with other words you are using a method that has been tested and works.

Well, since I started off this thread I am now working with some very high level Bak Fu Pai meditations which make considerable use of mudras in their own right (as do most martial arts practices), so rather than mix and match methods, for the time being I have stopped practicing the Kuji-In, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I still find the idea of circle walking with the eyes closed in an activated meditative state, such as that which results from the high level BFP meditations - intriguing. My main objective at this time is one of health and longevity in order to pursue high level cultivation more safely, but it is very much a part of me to explore every type of energetic practice. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

19 hours ago, ronaldk said:

Other Methods

 

Some master activated usually bahui with a mudra and then  directly walk a normal bagua form or other arts.
This is extremely powerfull but if your energy systems is not balanced out.
You will get just more energy and more inbalanceit might not be a fun ride.

Perhaps this is the way the Bagua walking meditation originated...

19 hours ago, ronaldk said:

 

If you are balanced out it will be pure bliss

 

Quote

I will not be able to tell you more since i do not use kuji in that way.

So, how do you use the Kuji-In, if I may ask?

Have a great evening

Ronaldk

You too,

 

David

19 hours ago, ronaldk said:

 

 

[ronaldk]

Dear David,

Good Work

 

The bak fu qi gong is really good and cool stuff if you are practising that then keep doing it.
May i ask if you are practising the Gary Hearfield Bak fu Qi gong?

 

Other Bak Fu Masters ( by this i mean the once mentioned by Sifu Terence Dunn)

 

I have been very interested in the bak fu nei gong and read some interesting remarks from the kind master Terence Dunn in his flying phoenix thread.I know that there are other legit bak fu masters selling these forms.

 

• However i always felt that maybe the price is high and maybe it is worth it.
• but i still sometimes feel that it still feels a bit like a gamble to pay 200-300 euro for DVD
• If it the DVD and the bak fu set works it would be great  and i would be happy!
• However it for some reason it would not then i would feel bad having spend that much money

 

Traditional Kuji in Qi gong

 

Qigong Empowerment: A Guide to Medical, Taoist, Buddhist and Wushu Energy Cultivation: Volume 1 - Master Shou-Yu Liang

Kuji in is usually used either standing like mentioned in the book above or sitting in one place.

 

How to use Kuji in

The goal is to connect the antenna (seal) with the right energy center (chakra) and activated it with the right mantra.
this comes from esoteric buddhisme speech (mantra) body and Mind should be one.

 

The book i recommend above is not sexy or fancy but for its price its fulled with a truck load of information from a very decent linage and famous chi gong Master

 

However Bak fu is really really good, powerfull and cool stuff.

Do hestitate to pm and tell me about your bak fu qi gongs and which of those gave you some decent results

 

Have a great weekend and take care,
Ronaldk