Following the Tao and flexibility

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well if everything is possible under the Dao.. then both going with the grain and against it are both tao.. but now we understand which is flow and which is not..

 

Its like getting a knot in your side or gut for example..

 

With the grain wouldnt be or have any relation to a knot.. but going against the grain causes one!

[Marblehead]

Indeed.  I would suggest that doing counter-productive things are going against the grain.  But they still can be done.

 

[dawei]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Indeed.  I would suggest that doing counter-productive things are going against the grain.  But they still can be done.

 

 

so far.. words, words, words...   thus, anything can be done

 

[Lost in Translation]

11 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Everything I Love... and everything i despise... manifest from one source.  So the difference between the two, must lie in me.

 

These are among the wisest words I have ever read.

 

Thank you. _/|\_

[wandelaar]

8 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Indeed.  I would suggest that doing counter-productive things are going against the grain.  But they still can be done.

 

That nicely captures the result of this discussion.

 

Quote

Everything I Love... and everything i despise... manifest from one source.  So the difference between the two, must lie in me.

 

The above quote - to me - looks unconvincing. It doesn't prove the point. What I see as a  rose and what I see as a dog also manifest from the same source, but does that mean that the difference between those two creatures must lie in me? Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Communism, Fascism, Liberalism, and al other world views also manifest from the same one source, but does that mean that the difference between them must lie in me? Or worse still that it would be OK to just blindly pick any one of them (for they all follow from the same source)? No - that is taking scepticism to a roundly absurd extreme. It also would make human life impossible because there would no longer remain a reason for us to choose this over that.

 

What is true is that facts of themselves are neither good or bad but just are. But that doesn't say anything about how we should or shouldn't evaluate the things that happen in our lives. 

[Stosh]

Yes, precisely none of it tells you what to pick, do, or think.

But no one needs to tell you to get out of the rain. 

You are therefore encouraged to consider for yourself what you value , what has meaning,. 

Yes the difference in the creatures can be seen as being within and relative to you..but youd have to loosen up a bit on your certainties before youd get that point. ex

Consider how a person regards their pit bull , and that it lives harmoniously with them. Now consider it as a threat like others may. 

The dog does what it will as a dog , but whether its a threat or cuddle puppy depends on circumstance. It always has unmanifest and manifest potentials, the mental constructs about the dog are figments of imagination , but the material aspects are whatever they turn out to be because both the dog and circumstances continually vary. Thrrefore the dog is not a constant, what you consider the dog to be should not be fixed, if you are to be accurate about it.

Its not that one should not make rational decisions to provide for their safety..and not that the thing can be wished away.. it IS that you need to consider the circumstances and the potentials and deal with it materially with regards to your own aims. Like retaining a face.

[Limahong]

On 4/15/2018 at 8:41 AM, dawei said:

words, words, words...   thus, anything can be done

 

On 6/24/2018 at 8:11 AM, dawei said:

Square and corners are just words... Squares and corners spoken are not the eternalness [of squares and corners].

 

Hi dawei,

 

No words - thus, anything can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

[wandelaar]

Sometimes a few words are much better than loads of pictures...

[Limahong]

7 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

... words...

 

Hi wandelaar,

 

On 6/23/2018 at 2:11 AM, wandelaar said:

I did take a look just now to see what was happening. But I still see no common ground as a basis for discussion. 

 

... no words...

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

At least no one can criticize you for what you said.

 

[wandelaar]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

At least no one can criticize you for what you said.

 

That's a doubtful advantage, because one won't learn anything either.

[Limahong]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:10 PM, Marblehead said:

And in the end I had to change my understanding.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Good you are learning.

 

But...

 

 

- LimA

[rene]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:17 PM, silent thunder said:

Growth and Decay are no longer separate processes to me. They both flow into each other, perpetually.

They are present in the flowing process of our bodies and minds always. 

 

Superior and inferior... these have no place as one will never triumph over the other.

 

Can you ever order a room so everything is up only?  Can you break sticks in half and be left with only tops? 

Are there waves that form with only crests?

 

These are not manifestations of separate processes, but perception lends that illusion.

 

Growth feeds on decay (all life consumes other life, be it rain and sun and minerals in soil, or plants and animals directly), while decay nurtures all life and is the foundation of all growth.  In this it has become apparent to me that life, is by its nature, acquisitional, selfish and always taking in from the environment and merging the external with the internal through breath and eating.  Whereas decay... decay is nurturing, giving... it is the ultimate release and giving back.

 

They are not separate to me, but one unified flowing expression of the spectrum of the fluid life process.

 

 

Every action, and non-action, is one of equal creation and destruction. Such is the way of tao. (-:

 

Now I'll go read the rest of the thread, lol

[rene]

Interesting thread.

I go against the grain all the time while sanding wood.

Tao flows in all directions at the same time; not possible to go 'against' the flow of tao.

Very possible to go against what you think the flow of tao is, or want it to be, or think it should be.

[rideforever]

The question is not what do I do, but how can I merge with the Tao.

[Limahong]

11 hours ago, rideforever said:

how can I merge with the Tao

 

Hi rideforever,

 

Stop riding forever.

 

Ride wu-wei~lessly...

 

- LimA

[rene]

11 hours ago, rideforever said:

The question is not what do I do, but how can I merge with the Tao.

 

Are you somewhere Tao is not?

[Cobie]

On 14/04/2018 at 2:53 AM, wandelaar said:

It may well be that "well intentioned" is not a Taoist concept, but I am not prepared to give it up.

 

[I haven’t read the thread] No need to give it up! Laozi in Ch 67 says “compassion” is the first of his three treasures. 
 

Quote

I think even very yong children at times show hateful attitudes so we have to educate them and ourselves to become socially acceptable individuals. That's why I wrote that I'm probably more of a Confucianist on this point than a Taoist.

Maybe the DDJ is more Confucianist than Taoist! Almost all DDJ translations use the Wang Bi characters (e.g. ctext.org, James Legge), and Wang B was a Confucian. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Cobie

[wandelaar]

Compassion is a healthy thing, so the supposed dilemma between caring for oneself and caring for others is false. But you have to avoid the extremes. People who choose to care only for themselves may become rich and powerful but they seldom live happy lives. On the other hand caring only for others is self destructive.

[Cobie]

.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Cobie

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Compassion is a healthy thing, so the supposed dilemma between caring for oneself and caring for others is false. But you have to avoid the extremes. People who choose to care only for themselves may become rich and powerful but they seldom live happy lives. On the other hand caring only for others is self destructive.

 

When being kind to people its important to remember we are also people. ;-)

[Sahaja]

20 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

When being kind to people it’s important to remember we are also people. ;-)

Is there a spiritual lesson in the safety video on airplanes about putting your air mask on first before helping the person next to you with their mask?

[Maddie]

44 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

Is there a spiritual lesson in the safety video on airplanes about putting your air mask on first before helping the person next to you with their mask?

 

That's deep lol