Sex & Magick

[!nverse]

My most sincere apologies, I'm sure this topic exists somewhere, I just couldn't appease the Search gods enough for them to help me!

 

Whether it is culturally acknowledged or not, most societies regard the heterosexual act, at the very least, as a form of natural magick necessary to expand the species. This, as I understand it, is the basis for White Magick.

 

On the other hand, homosexuality in some cultures is described as Black Magick. Penetration & fluid transmission, mimicking the heterosexual sex act of copulation but without a foetus, no egg to fertilise. In Christianity, for example, it is considered blasphemous. Some believe that the act of buggery installs demons in the aura.

 

What I do know though, is to be careful where you spill your seed. Stony ground, fertile ground... the allegory is clear.

 

I'm heterosexual but celibate & have been since my twenties. I've always felt that sex is something really special, to be enjoyed with a loving partner. The true love shared by the couple can be "celebrated" by the sex act, and the spiritual rewards should be bountiful. If one takes it further in the occult sense, it is possible to time the act to be "cosmically charged" according to astrological cycles (I'm guessing really, I've not much knowledge of astrology).

Personally I'd rather go without until I find said partner (30 years later I still haven't), rather than risk what I feel is a hugely significant, highly charged event with consequences we (used to) know little of. I don't miss it - I've other stimulation's to keep me occupied - music study is my lifelong partner. Alas also, we are living in a time when the West has been infiltrated by the scourge of feminism, we also have MGTOW & the battling sexes... 

 

I like to think I did my bit for population control by not adding to the numbers

 

To think we left school & were encouraged to sow our seed, without any knowledge of just what it is we were engaged in. I understand the need for a rite of passage into adulthood but the times they are-a-changin'... I know people that screwed around - they exhibit some of the characteristics of their sexual partners & seem almost schizophrenic in a way. I wonder if this leads to a loss of self, and therefore self-realisation? There are an awful lot of "clones" in Western society... makes it easy for social engineers & think tanks to manage. What a travesty.

 

Contemporary life however, suggests to the suggestible listener that "it's OK to screw around". Personally I think not, and that's saying nothing of STD's & crazy ex's. But I'll not judge anyone that has, in fact I'd like to know if anyone has had any really positive or negative spiritual experiences with the sexual act, heterosexual or otherwise?

[Apech]

Hi,

 

I respect your choice to be celibate and I think the way you regard it's link to love very noble indeed.

 

Sex is a very powerful force in the human psyche (if I can put it that way) and at least part of the reason for that is that otherwise the human race might die out.  Spiritually there is a usually a prohibition of sex amongst monks and ascetics which stems I think from two slightly different reasons.  One is the wish not to become entangled in worldly affairs and responsibilities - and the other is the wish to preserve and conserve energy.  In the East in Daoism it is mostly the latter - while in Buddhism and the West it is mostly the former (although Brahmacarya in ancient 'Hinduism' was actually about energy conservation) .

 

The other thing about sex is even more fundamental in that it is a primal energy which transgresses the boundaries of 'normal' behaviour - hence in Tantra it is sometimes called 'antinomial' - that is beyond the law (of normal safe behaviour).  This is one part of the reason it is valued in Tantra where transgressive behaviour is used in various way symbolically and sometimes actually.  It's quite a difficult subject and is usually kept secret for this reason.

 

I think that a lot of strange attitudes towards sex vary over time and from culture to culture - especially towards homosexuality - and the link to blasphemy is is just part of the use of religion for social control and so on.

[!nverse]

Apech, thanks for the reply.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, I agree & initially placed myself in the former. It is only since my studies have lengthened have I had any regard for the latter. In this day & age, I'm encouraged that the "no FAP" movement seems to be alive & well, and that younger generations are taking it quite seriously. It's quite refreshing to see an antidote to the glut of porn on the web. But isn't this the way of the world? It's no coincidence that the dock leaf flourishes where there are stinging nettles.

 

Social control, yep.. "by hook or by crook", or "if not State then Church". Who was it that said "sex isn't about sex, sex is about power"?

[RiverSnake]

2 Important Rules of Thumb

 

1. Only merge with people whom are energetically aligned with you...different people have different energetic natures. Some are complimentary to you others are not. Discriminate energetic qualities. 

 

2. Avoid merging with people with stinky chi. Not healthy.     

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by StormHealer

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, !nverse said:

My most sincere apologies, I'm sure this topic exists somewhere, I just couldn't appease the Search gods enough for them to help me!

 

It needs a refresh anyway ( the topic that is )  as ideas , research , knowledge increases .

 

 

Quote

 

Whether it is culturally acknowledged or not, most societies regard the heterosexual act, at the very least, as a form of natural magick necessary to expand the species. This, as I understand it, is the basis for White Magick.

 

depends on a definition of 'White Magick' though doesnt it ?

 

Anything from the fuzzey New Age self referential judgementarian type  and all' the way through to  ( considering the addition of the 'k' and certain  related considerations )  , ' The Holy Magick of Light ' .    In some groups any practice related to sex is considered 'dark; or 'left hand ' . on

 

The idea is two fold ; the first is that by conscious magical  decision and act, children of  a more advanced or evolved or specialised nature can come into the world  ... also this needs to be followed up by their upbringing.

 

The other idea is that the sex act is so powerful magically that in can result in the creation of the new being, so the idea is to subvert that creation and re-direct the magical force to other means . 

 

( There was a third about rejuvenation, but this is mostly debunked nowadays, by the observant  - see below )

 

Quote

 

On the other hand, homosexuality in some cultures is described as Black Magick. Penetration & fluid transmission, mimicking the heterosexual sex act of copulation but without a foetus, no egg to fertilise. In Christianity, for example, it is considered blasphemous. Some believe that the act of buggery installs demons in the aura.

 

This is just an extension of the 2nd idea above ; the 'subversion'  of the 'magical force' .   The homosexual practice just requires less risk and effort of a 'slip up'  ( conception ) .

 

It could be see that either practice like this ( hetro or homo)  is a 'diversion' *   from the first practice .

 

*  (  I didnt want to use the term ' Black Magick'  but the word 'diversion' seems accurate, considering its common meaning and its etymology  (old etymology that is , P.I.E. ) ;

 "The words deva (Vedic Sanskrit), daeva (Avestan Old Iranian) and div (Middle and Modern Persian) are commonly considered to be variations of the same word, div being the more modern (Middle Persian) word. While the different words may at times be applied in a similar fashion, there are times when they have different connotations.] ' ...  deviate, divert, devil, evil, etc . 

 

Quote

 

What I do know though, is to be careful where you spill your seed. Stony ground, fertile ground... the allegory is clear.

 

I'm heterosexual but celibate & have been since my twenties. I've always felt that sex is something really special, to be enjoyed with a loving partner. The true love shared by the couple can be "celebrated" by the sex act, and the spiritual rewards should be bountiful. If one takes it further in the occult sense, it is possible to time the act to be "cosmically charged" according to astrological cycles (I'm guessing really, I've not much knowledge of astrology).

 

This is the first thing I mentioned above ;  The development of more advanced people, but within a marriage and stable upbringing . This was the original concept of Western Tantra .    This is a part of the western tradition little known ... and a little surprising .

 

https://newtopiamagazine.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/thomas-johnson-platonism-meets-sex-magic-on-the-prairie/

 

Around this time, and going hand in hand with this would be also the works of other ' saints'   like Ida Craddock , who tried to teach people in books about sex ... specifically men .... basically, back then, a lot of it was , please dont rape your wifes !

 

Of course they threatened to lock her up so killed herself instead

 

http://www.idacraddock.com/intro.html

 

For a more magicKal   approach , see Moonchild , a novel  by Crowley.  It emulates a practice where the parents, time of conception, time of birth etc etc , are worked out magically and astrologically

 

 

Quote

Personally I'd rather go without until I find said partner (30 years later I still haven't), rather than risk what I feel is a hugely significant, highly charged event with consequences we (used to) know little of. I don't miss it - I've other stimulation's to keep me occupied - music study is my lifelong partner. Alas also, we are living in a time when the West has been infiltrated by the scourge of feminism, we also have MGTOW & the battling sexes... 

 

I like to think I did my bit for population control by not adding to the numbers

 

that deserves fist bump puppy

 

Spoiler

 

 

You know , if someone REALLY wants to have and bring up kids ... there are an awful lot of kids out there that need adopting .

 

 

Quote

 

To think we left school & were encouraged to sow our seed, without any knowledge of just what it is we were engaged in. I understand the need for a rite of passage into adulthood but the times they are-a-changin'... I know people that screwed around - they exhibit some of the characteristics of their sexual partners & seem almost schizophrenic in a way. I wonder if this leads to a loss of self, and therefore self-realisation? There are an awful lot of "clones" in Western society... makes it easy for social engineers & think tanks to manage. What a travesty.

 

Contemporary life however, suggests to the suggestible listener that "it's OK to screw around". Personally I think not, and that's saying nothing of STD's & crazy ex's. But I'll not judge anyone that has, in fact I'd like to know if anyone has had any really positive or negative spiritual experiences with the sexual act, heterosexual or otherwise?

 

 

And now we have ' social media  dating'   .... I hear, in  a lot of  cases  dating means a lot more .... go on line to score a fuck ... basically

 

... jeeze !       But then again , maybe its just 'humping'  and not any type of  'spiritual orgastic ecstasy'  ..... 'non-potent' as Wilhelm Reich used to term it   (and he is another one you should look up regarding changes in sexual ideas , if you are not familiar with him .

 

 

Oh, I left out the rejuvenation bit ;  basically people thought if they consumed  the combined sexual fluids ( ' Sun and Moon' )  the 'life force' energy would rejuvenate them .  Even Crowley admitted this was primitive and base and predicted, soon ( after his time) it would be understood scientifically and reproduced in a laboratory .   This has been done with stem cell research and applications  - and there is a lot ore to come on that research .

Edited April 13, 2018 by Nungali

[liminal_luke]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:32 PM, !nverse said:

 

On the other hand, homosexuality in some cultures is described as Black Magick. Penetration & fluid transmission, mimicking the heterosexual sex act of copulation but without a foetus, no egg to fertilise. In Christianity, for example, it is considered blasphemous. Some believe that the act of buggery installs demons in the aura.

 

What I do know though, is to be careful where you spill your seed. Stony ground, fertile ground... the allegory is clear.

 

 

 I know people that screwed around - they exhibit some of the characteristics of their sexual partners & seem almost schizophrenic in a way. 

 

Inverse,

 

I totally agree with you that it`s wise to be prudent about sexual expression, but, as a gay man, can I say that I think you`ve got us all wrong.  I`ve never done anything that could be fairly described as "mimicking the heterosexual sex act of copulation," nor am I much of a magician -- neither black nor white.  Alas.  Also, I`ve met quite a few slutty people in my life (both heterosexual and otherwise) and very few of them have been schizophrenic.  I do agree, however, that it`s possible to mess oneself up energetically having too much sex with the wrong people.

 

Sexuality is a charged subject, for sure.  My sense is that it`s the energy and spirit we bring to our decisions about sex that largely determine whether the outcome is healthy and life affirming.  It`s possible to be erotically healthy having sex with people of the same gender or the opposite gender.  It`s possible to be erotically healthy having sex with many people, just one, or none at all.  It`s also possible to be sexually messed up doing any of those things.  To really know whether a person`s eroticism is working for them, you`d have to know more than where they put what, in who, and how often.  It`s a complicated question.  If I get it more or less right for myself, I`ll consider myself good; everybody else can do what they want.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by liminal_luke

[!nverse]

Thanks for the replies, all. I'm encouraged & certainly wiser for it.

 

@Nungali I'll check up on those links for sure, it's great to have some feedback in an area that I have little practical knowledge in (sex or magick). The etymology of "deva" I find very interesting, etymology can be very revealing where other methods may fall short. I've studied Wilhelm Reich a little, cloudbusting & orgone & all that, introduced to me by Hawkwind's "Orgone Accumulator". Oh, and many thanks for the fist-bump puppy, I really like that

 

@liminal_luke Apologies if I gave you the wrong impression, I meant no harm or prejudice (I couldn't live with a bigoted version of myself), I was merely paraphrasing from the Christian standpoint. How ironic that I mention "the allegory is clear", only to cause confusion! The allegory, to me, says do something productive with your seed, whatever that may be. There is a fantastic woodcut (Gnostic?) that shows a naked man in poor health with a tree growing out of his groin - I took that to mean that too much (ahem) "self-enjoyment" can lead to a lifeless body, mind & spirit... I've been guilty of that, for sure, hence my interest in attempting to understand the subject.

 

The reason I seem a little preoccupied with the Christian standpoint is that I was raised in a Judeo-Christian society & as a default, I've taken on the aspects of the culture of that society. On my (non-religious) Father's side, I was taught to question *everything*, especially myself. In studying that culture, I've found many degrees of separation from the original religious/spiritual doctrine that we were raised with, and it fascinates me how people have deviated from the cultural baseline, and what those experiences may be. On the other side of my family, well that's something kept from me until I choose to make it known, if that makes sense? You can PM me if you have an understanding that may help me.

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, !nverse said:

Thanks for the replies, all. I'm encouraged & certainly wiser for it.

 

@Nungali I'll check up on those links for sure, it's great to have some feedback in an area that I have little practical knowledge in (sex or magick). The etymology of "deva" I find very interesting, etymology can be very revealing where other methods may fall short. I've studied Wilhelm Reich a little, cloudbusting & orgone & all that, introduced to me by Hawkwind's "Orgone Accumulator".

 

 

Meeehh ....   Reich wrote some great stuff about sexuality   then   he went off the rails a bit into cloudbusting ,  I recommend the former and not the latter .  He studied under Freud, you know .... but left   as  .....   well ;

 

"

Freud believed that culture and instinct were antithetical and

that the baby was born with both libidinal and destructive drives. He believed,thus, that the destructive drive legitimately required repression for an orderlysociety and that, in the last analysis, society was correct in imposing such restrictions - otherwise, there would be chaos.

 

Reich believed that the baby was born without destructive drives and with only the primary libidinal (love) drive, and that he was capable of regulating himself if allowed to function naturally. He

believed that the destructive drives were a result of the repression of the libido, which then built up tension and pressure that could express themselves only forcefully and brutally. In this view, society is wrong in restricting the natural drives of the child, for it thus forces on him irrational and neurotic behaviour. "

 

http://www.orgonomy.org/articles/Baker/Sexual_Theories_of_Wilhelm_Reich.pdf

 

PS . the etymology is Avestan > Middle Persian , the Sanskrit is different , and relates to a meaning before the 'Indo-Iranian Split' .

Edited April 13, 2018 by Nungali

[!nverse]

I need to dig deeper into Wilhelm Reich then, thanks for the tip off.

 

Interesting stuff. I found a way to channel my libido through music, playing in a rock band can be very errr... stimulating. My Father used to say, "every man needs an outlet for his genius or he'll go mad"... I wonder if this is similar?

[Nungali]

One needs a creative outlet .

 

Your father was correct .     Another way of putting it  ....    or he will 'lose his soul' .

 

The soul ,  in its classical mythological sense , is that  specific human ability of imagination, visualisation and creation .  If there is not some type of output, the soul does not have expression and is suppressed and restrained ... an energy block, and any energy block is unhealthy.   The soul will eventually become   either 'mad' *  or atrophied  ;-    'robotic' even  ;

 

 

 

 

*  one type of ' madness' is ; the soul doesnt get to express itself properly ( try out a solution, observe the results, modify and retry ) it will start to throw up wild solutions and the self will believe it 'made results'  ..... crazy concepts ... all the way through to believing they have 'powers'  , can do miracles,  , the 'imaginative' world intrudes directly into the material, subverting any actual creative process , that step being circumvented by 'hallucination'  .. that is, its gone beyond imagining it happened to really believing one is seeing and experiencing something  material .

 

Creative output is v.healthy  ! 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Is it politically incorrect to say that I feel homosexuals when I see or hear about them that I feel my straight sexuality is being betrayed?

[Rickie]

6 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Is it politically incorrect to say that I feel homosexuals when I see or hear about them that I feel my straight sexuality is being betrayed?

 

Yes it is incorrect. Get over it.  It's not about you.  Live and let live.

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Is it politically incorrect to say that I feel homosexuals when I see or hear about them that I feel my straight sexuality is being betrayed?

 

I think it is incorrect in many ways to feel homosexuals     when one sees them .  I assume, unless they know you quiet well, they would object to any 'random stranger'  feeling them . 

 

If you    ... I mean , your conditionings ... dont want to feel betrayed by your 'own self ', then I advise you to stop feeling homosexuals .

 

 

Spoiler

sorry, I couldn't resist that    

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Hahaha, your funny..

[thelerner]

Sex, powerful drive.  Its good to acknowledge that it can be hurtful.  Wrong partners, too many partners, addictive behavior, STD's, unwanted pregnancies.  Yet there can also be danger on the other side.  Set it on too high pedestal that you don't or never have any is imo robbing oneself of one of lifes cardinal pleasures. 

 

Carry the concept that sex must be spiritual too far and one may be in store for disappointment, since it's not always, maybe even not often, yet it can be fun, loving, connecting.. releasing or so so. 

 

ie being obsessed is bad, but being overly prudish has its own set of baggage.  

 

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, thelerner said:

Sex, powerful drive.  Its good to acknowledge that it can be hurtful.  Wrong partners, too many partners, addictive behavior, STD's, unwanted pregnancies.  Yet there can also be danger on the other side.  Set it on too high pedestal that you don't or never have any is imo robbing oneself of one of lifes cardinal pleasures. 

 

Carry the concept that sex must be spiritual too far and one may be in store for disappointment, since it's not always, maybe even not often, yet it can be fun, loving, connecting.. releasing or so so. 

 

ie being obsessed is bad, but being overly prudish has its own set of baggage.  

 

 

 

Unless you went 30 years without one !

 

Then, I assume  it would go off like a skyrocket ! 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOwRRf6_3C4

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Nungali

[RiverSnake]

Good book on Sex Magick. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Sorcery-Spirit-Secrets-Erotic/dp/1601633327/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525473511&sr=8-3&keywords=Sex+magick