Tao Bums Forum - Growth and development

[Smile]

Sigh... miss that guy. Anyone heard any updates from our jing master?

I'm sure he is in excellent shape.

The forum is fine the way it is. Eventually the old fads will pass and the new fads will appear. Spirituality is not different from other worldly "shiny things" we see while life is passing by. Our minds live on this stuff.

[Eric23]

But then, I dont wear vaginal deodorant and panty liners, either.

 

In some sick way, I would lose all respect for you if you did I must say the women on this board rock.

 

Now to the subject at hand. I belong to a number of boards covering a variety of subjects. Most are broken down to multiple sub-catagories to better organize the discussions. For instance, an art forum that I participate in has seperate sub forums for different mediums, subject matter etc. each with their own moderators. The discourse is always civil, but it can get boring. Although the subject matter of "art" is so far reaching to compare it to TTB, what does happen is that you only check out the sub-forums you are interested in and miss out on meeting new people and learning new stuff. One thing about TTB is that if you sit back, read and ask thought out questions you will learn more than you ever thought was possible. Sometimes you are surprised, and when on a spiritual journey I think it is important to be surprised by whatever the universe sends your way. You may think you know all about your path and that all other possible paths have no bearing on where you're at, but you're leaving out the possibility that there is something out there that you should check out. So my conclusion is that a few additional sub-forums would help organize TTB, but it shouldn't be over-managaged. I must commend Sean for giving us a long leash. I was on a forum where outspoken people have been banned for far less than what goes on here and the forum lost it's mojo, and became completely boring.

 

That's my .02

[seadog]

I'm sure he is in excellent shape.

The forum is fine the way it is. Eventually the old fads will pass and the new fads will appear. Spirituality is not different from other worldly "shiny things" we see while life is passing by. Our minds live on this stuff.

 

Hear,Hear Smile.

[Brian L. Kennedy]

Masterforge,

Let me make a little suggestion. When you have new people, such as myself, come on to the board and post threads about on topic traditional Chinese Daoist things, and I usually take the time to add graphics to make things more interesting. And I strongly suspect I am one of the few people on this board who ever spent any time living in a Chinese culture (I have lived in Taiwan for 15 years now) which is the "native soil" of Daoism and who have written extensively on both Chinese martial arts and on Daoism..

 

And then your response to that is to call me a fucking "troll" on the "etymology of Dao thread" and say I ought to be banned because I point out in a civil manner that somebody was wrong about something; that does not encourage well informed people such as myself to continue here.

 

And then you bitch and moan about the quality of Taobums. How it looks to me is this. I normally get paid cash money for my words and my photos. I give them for free here because there are some civil folks and I am interested in seeing traditional Chinese Daoism flourish in the west and also just for the social fun of posting on a forum. But then I set back and ask myself, and my wife asks me the same question, why am I wasting my time.

 

So there is a little something to think about.

 

The other thing that I have noticed is on two of my threads, one of which I asked a serious straight forward question on Max's historical background, the thread got high jacked by a bunch of babble about fucking animals. I presume it was the Max disciples "solution" to any vague hint that Max's history is not so credible. Then same thing happens on the etymology of Dao thread; I make a straightforward comment and then a bunch of off topic, mocking, of my use of horseshit. I guess I should have said something more "modern" like "motherfucking bullshit"; but I was trying to stay civil and I thought horseshit was more mild.

 

The point being, threads going way off topic is another problem; I realize that thread going off into nonsense is a common deal on all forums but I did notice it happened to two of mine in the last week and it does not encourage people to post well thought out comments because what is going to happen is the thread is going to fall into nonsense....kind of like this one is with the talk about tampons.

 

take care,

Brian Kennedy

[宁]

I have bitten my tongue (or maybe typing finger ) quite a bit recently. I learned a long time ago that you cannot reason with unreasonable people. Everytime I have let myself get sucked into one of these mud slinging matches I have regreted it. Not because I can't hold my own, but because it really is a draining and consuming experience. It's fine to disagree, but we should not let our emotions cloud our thoughts, and we should always be respectful of our fellow posters.

 

As far as Kunlun goes, I think it needs its own forum. Almost daily there seems to be a new thread popping up, and most of the questions have already been answered elsewhere.

 

 

Cutting away all KL posting or redirecting it somewhere else could be a drastical sollution.

I prefer something more simple.

 

The real problems are the new threads with questions about KL.

Those deserve a special place, as they seem to be many and still repeting quite a lot.

 

Brian, we cannot turn this forum into something more canonical either, because, as someone said, it started out noncanonical, and will continue this way. There are some traditional-way lovers here too, including myself, who know that credentials are not lightly taken by more traditional folks.

But its not important to everyone.

 

The new fireflys that started nagging Sean and making noise about allowing KL to be criticised are of course people we all know, now with a different ID, the energy in their posts is so familliar.

 

[MASTERforge]

For a Taoist this guy has anger issues

 

I really wish you all the best Brian.

 

Nothing more to say.

 

[joeblast]

*shrugs* too much garbage = I dont post. If a discussion is fruitful, I will participate if I have something to say. If its all mudslinging and personal attacks, I quickly become disinterested. Isnt expounding virtue a part of the paths we all tread? If so, it should be demonstrated. Consistently. Differing opinions can be expressed without discourse becoming downright incongruous.

 

Seriously. If someone's post strikes a bad chord with you and you become offended, is it not wise to examine why you personally feel offended when 9 times out of 10 it is not intended to be offensive? Think before you speak; think before you type. A little bit of it can save a lot of ill will being displayed, subtle or blatant.

 

Nevermind what has been said in the past. Can we all utilize this forum in the spirit with which it was created from now on, like we should be?

[Oolong Rabbit]

kind of like this one is with the talk about tampons.

 

Correction Brian: the talk was about panty liners and vaginal deodorant . After a month of Jing retention I took that one and ran with it.

 

Seriously though man, I really do appreciate the cultural stuff you post. I think a lot of others do as well, but they just kind of take it in without commenting. It's sort of ironic that there's 7000 members of this forum, but the posts that often jump out at us are the ones where we feel slighted. There is usually a silent majority that we take for granted. As for the etymology thread you mention, I saw it coming. If you take a yang approach to topics people are sensitive about, you will usually get a yang reply. That having been said I don't think TB will ever become a strictly academic forum, although there are a lot of very knowledgeable posters. Just take the good with the bad and ugly.

 

Brgds!

[MASTERforge]

1 month of Jing retention! I can't last a week.

 

What happened to you during this month? After a couple of days I am crawling up the wall, can't think straight at all and my groin feels like it has masses of energy pulsing in there. Not a comfortable feeling at all.

 

I think we are over exposed to sex. All of the advertising and television stimulates our sexual desires. I think without this our sex drives would be much less. Do you think the peasants of old were at it as much as we are?

[Pietro]

Masterforge,

Let me make a little suggestion. When you have new people, such as myself, come on to the board and post threads about on topic traditional Chinese Daoist things, and I usually take the time to add graphics to make things more interesting. And I strongly suspect I am one of the few people on this board who ever spent any time living in a Chinese culture (I have lived in Taiwan for 15 years now) which is the "native soil" of Daoism and who have written extensively on both Chinese martial arts and on Daoism..

 

And then your response to that is to call me a fucking "troll" on the "etymology of Dao thread" and say I ought to be banned because I point out in a civil manner that somebody was wrong about something; that does not encourage well informed people such as myself to continue here.

 

And then you bitch and moan about the quality of Taobums. How it looks to me is this. I normally get paid cash money for my words and my photos. I give them for free here because there are some civil folks and I am interested in seeing traditional Chinese Daoism flourish in the west and also just for the social fun of posting on a forum. But then I set back and ask myself, and my wife asks me the same question, why am I wasting my time.

 

Dear Brian,

 

I personally appreciate your posts very much.

 

I have limited knowledge of taoism, respect to you, but I have been in online forum, and in this forum for ages. So I hope you take no offence if I try to share some of the insight that I got about posting here. This because I like so much your posts here, I feel you can give a great contribution, and I would like to see TB to have you as a permanent member.

 

The first thing I discovered is that it is totally pointless to try to get respect by refering to anything like age, credentials and such. The first Tao War (a big flame war that happened in the forum before this forum, around year 2000) was started by a healing tao instructor who had been given the title of master from Mantak Chia and started using it in its signature. It is even worse trying to impress. I don't think you are trying to impress, but I others are, right now, and they might be reading this message as well.

 

I agree that all this is really disconcerting. If you teach at the university Daoism, you are generally use to have students respect you. It does not work here. I am not saying that there is no respect, just that it is not easily, or automatically, given. I know this might sound vaguely offensive, but to get respect in this forum a few things need to occur.

 

- You need to know your topic (which you obviously do)

- You need to give hints that you are embodying it. How so?

-- You need to be unmovable. Essentially what gets respected here alot is the ability to stand, under pressure. Both from external pressure (people disagreeing with you), and internal pressure (your inner demons, compulsions, and so on). The assumption is that the more mountain-like you appear, the deeper your meditation must be. And thus the more you can teach us. Come, say what you have to say, and do not give a hint if you are observing the reaction or not.

 

This is hard to explain, but essentially the easier it is to offend you, the more you will be mocked. Childish? Yes. But this is how it is. And it is easier to change ourself, than to change this whole community. So for example, saying that something is horseshit is ok. We all have done it. At least I never knew of anyone protesting. If someone protests (via PM), most of us would just ignore that person. Some would mock him. Some compassionate might say that they are sorry, in fact if you honestly feel that you need to say to someone that you are sorry, then do it. But to say: "I have been invited to say sorry, but I don't feel like, but I will do it anyway", it all points to the fact that you are letting this forum push you around. So you are easy to be moved.

 

Another thing (this again is not so much on you, but it goes nicely with the others):

-- The more you need to go back and re-edit your own posts, the more fragile you seem. Look at all the posts lately, and look at who are the people who had to delete all that they have said. This will give you a hint of their stability. And from this you can judge their path.

 

-- The more you can just get online, say what you have to say, and ignore what happens next the more stable you will be perceived.

 

-- You need never to take offense. If someone is annoying you, then take Ian's suggestion, thank those people silently, for giving you the material for your next meditation, and go back to your cushion. At most half a hint, months later can be dropped, as a side note (in italic, two paragraphs above ).

 

-And of course being social creature, it is also true that the more respect other give you, the more respect newcomers will give you.

 

 

The other thing that I have noticed is on two of my threads, one of which I asked a serious straight forward question on Max's historical background, the thread got high jacked by a bunch of babble about fucking animals. I presume it was the Max disciples "solution" to any vague hint that Max's history is not so credible. Then same thing happens on the etymology of Dao thread; I make a straightforward comment and then a bunch of off topic, mocking, of my use of horseshit. I guess I should have said something more "modern" like "motherfucking bullshit"; but I was trying to stay civil and I thought horseshit was more mild.

 

The point being, threads going way off topic is another problem; I realize that thread going off into nonsense is a common deal on all forums but I did notice it happened to two of mine in the last week and it does not encourage people to post well thought out comments because what is going to happen is the thread is going to fall into nonsense....kind of like this one is with the talk about tampons.

 

Yes, it is true that we often enjoy moving from one topic to another. This is partially due to the fact that the whole place is very losely moderated (and most of us enjoy it that way), and due to the fact that we know each other from some time. When you know from a long time it is quite common to cut thread, and insert things from one thread to the other. It might be a nightmare to control, but is quite pleasent to follow. Still we do try to follow up on the topic. Unless, of course, we feel that all that the question have been answered. Or the point taken, and in general the topic has reached a stand still.

 

For example, the topic in this thread has come through at least 4 different threads, and will continue in a few. As well. Who cares if this thread gets polluted. We will keep on discussing in the others.

 

While my sensation respect to your thread, was that your question

 

Am I to understand that when he was 6 years old, in 1966, Mr. Christensen, a white American, was in China studying with a Wudang master? Am I reading that correctly?. Let me be quick to add, I have no ax to grind, I am simply asking as a historian working on a book about modern Daoism.

 

has been answered. By yourself,

and here:

I believe Max lived on a military base in Michigan as a child, and Master Wu Xiao Deng was working there. That's how they met.

.

 

Do you feel that the answer were not enough?

Do you feel that the jokes on polar bear somehow stopped a thread that would have brought on more interesting informations? I am interested to know your take on this, because I felt that the discussion had both answered you and provided entertainment.

 

So, I hope that you are not driven away but our chidish behavior. I hope you can keep on sharing your knowledge with us, and ignore, those that you cannot help.

 

With love,

Pietro

[Pietro]

Sigh... miss that guy. Anyone heard any updates from our jing master?

I saw a post from him in the HT. For what I know he was playing Chess with Trip for quite some time after TB thoe other forum was closed. And he posted a few time in Plato's Prostate forum. On the other side he has let go of his address: http://taobum.servebeer.com/

 

maybe he just let that mask drop, took a new one, and is among us.

[Buddy]

Brian and I have had our spats elsewhere (because we martial arts guys...go figure) but he is spot on with that post.

[Ian]

 

But then, I dont wear vaginal deodorant and panty liners, either.

 

I can relate to that. I don't either.

[doc benway]

I find that as long as the new topic titles reflect the contents of the thread, I can manage. It's easy to scan new threads and ignore or explore them based on my interest. There is certainly value in segregating posts into sub-categories but it's not mandatory. I would leave that call to administration. When a topic appeals to me and I feel like I have something to say, I do so. Otherwise I ignore it. When a member annoys me, I ignore them. It's pretty easy really. I think this is a very interesting forum to visit as is. Furthermore, as people get their dander up and express themselves freely, with minimal administrator interference, it gives the rest of us an opportunity to learn more about that person. Furthermore, as has already been mentioned, when someone gets me angry on a forum, it's really more about me than them. It's an excellent opportunity to look at how I feel and why, and I've had some really valuable insights into myself as a result (some on this very forum).

Keep up the good work Sean!

[Cameron]

[AugustLeo]

.

[VCraigP]

Dear Brian,

 

I personally appreciate your posts very much.

 

I have limited knowledge of taoism, respect to you, but I have been in online forum, and in this forum for ages.

 

So, I hope that you are not driven away but our chidish behavior. I hope you can keep on sharing your knowledge with us, and ignore, those that you cannot help.

 

With love,

Pietro

 

Pietro's missive was edited for space leaving in only the very respectful beginning and end for reference.

 

Pietro has here taken a great deal of time to talk to Brian about the culture of The Tao Bums from one who has been active here from the beginning.

 

Wihle there may be ways we wish things were here in my opinion there is only the way things are. TTB is how it has always been IME.

 

While Brian K, Buddy and others may object to how things are it seems to me that Pietro has beautifully and very hospitably written a primer on the culture of the village in which you now find yourself being more active.

 

I think Pietro's words have wisdom. I urge anyone who seeks to understand this community to read his words carefully.

 

ONe of the key points he makes I would like to underscore.

Don't mistake sillly banter between longtime cyber friends as an attempt to hijack "your" thread.

Sometimes we just want to have silly banter. ENOUGH ABOUT CRICKET ALREADY Haha.

 

TTB is what it is. I wouldn't change it one Iota. (except maybe to spend a bit less time here myself

 

Craig

[AugustLeo]

.

[Buddy]

Things change or are changed. That's just the way of it.

[VCraigP]

Things change or are changed. That's just the way of it.

 

 

You should feel free to push the river.

[Buddy]

You lost me on that one.

[Oolong Rabbit]

1 month of Jing retention! I can't last a week.

 

What happened to you during this month? After a couple of days I am crawling up the wall, can't think straight at all and my groin feels like it has masses of energy pulsing in there. Not a comfortable feeling at all.

 

I think we are over exposed to sex. All of the advertising and television stimulates our sexual desires. I think without this our sex drives would be much less. Do you think the peasants of old were at it as much as we are?

 

Hi Masterforge,

 

It's nothing compared to others here, but I am trying to build up some energy for sifu Lin Aiwei's upcoming cultivation retreat in NY. Suprisingly the jing retention has been pretty easy, and I normally have a very healthy libido. I don't want to start beating the Kunlun drum, because other practices likely have similar effects, but you can refer to my post about it in these threads:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=4317&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=4205&hl=

 

Truth be told it gets easier for me the longer I go. It's a really good feeling to not let yourself be controlled by these lower impulses.

 

I think Pietro's words have wisdom. I urge anyone who seeks to understand this community to read his words carefully.

 

I second that. His post should be required reading for new members. Well said Pietro.

 

Brgds!

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[sean]

Great topic, lot's of great ideas.

 

Pietro I just love your post here! Superb introduction to the vibe of the community.

 

As admin I must admit I've been feeling uniquely challenged by some of the issues that have come up lately. The insult policy was the only rule I felt the need to lightly enforce over the years. Now as the forum grows I am faced with more complex/subjective issues such as members who tread loosely within the no-insult guideline but seem to harbor an anti-agenda of sorts; making repeated posts that lack any contributing value and really just appear part of their own personal ongoing campaign to tear down. This is very annoying but doesn't quite break any rules. So I'm torn between continuing my more or less laissez-faire approach --- letting the community play out dramas naturally as long as things are not degenerating into personal attacks --- or moving things in a new yet undetermined direction with more structure, ie: stepping into moderator role more frequently, thinking up new rules/guidelines, closing/splitting topics that derail, warning/suspending members stuck in non-contributive smear agendas, etc.

 

One thing I think I will do soon is install a module into the forum that gives each member a "reputation" score, positive or negative. This will make it so that any members post can essentially be voted on for how much it contributed to the topic and the forum. There are a lot of features of this module that prevent abuse as well, such as you do not just have unlimited reputation points to distribute, you accumulate them over time, by making posts, and via gaining positive reputation points yourself. You cannot vote on the same post twice unless you've voted on x number of other posts, etc. I feel this feature will put a lot more power into the hands of the community, and in the case of trolls will become a powerful tool to "vote down" draining members without engaging them. I can't be everywhere at once, particularly as we get bigger, so this will alert me to members that are imbalanced in their taking/annoying vs. providing/contributing and I can investigate and provide "Tao Bums fasts" as needed more accurately and with a better sense that the "community has spoken".

 

Re: splitting up the forum into subforums, to me this seems really complicated because of all things how could we ever agree on an ontology of Tao? Those of us who were here in the first days might remember that we did try to think up categories at first but it just became hopelessly convoluted rather quickly. And like Pietro (I think) pointed out in this topic, it doesn't really solve the troll problem. I am open to suggestions on this. One thing I definitely want to do at the very least is make "View New Posts" a more obvious function. It's the only way I ever surf forums.

 

Sean

[Stigweard]

Hi Sean,

 

I am only a newcomer but I hear the history and like your current suggestions.

 

The Force be with you

 

Stig