TTC 47

[lazarus]

greetings everyone

 

my name is lazarus, I´m from brazil and so far in the way I´ve been focusing on learning about alchemy, tarot and qabala. but for this first topic I thought it would be appropriate to talk about an experience I had when meditating on the 47th chapter of the Tao.

 

the first time I read it, for some reason I started to think about the distance between one point and another and how endlessly it would be possible to divide the units of measure of this particular space. from that reasoning I drew two premises: either I could never get from point a to b; or there would be no actual distance between them - I´d be already there and where I was at same time, ergo, everywere. for obvious reasons (I believe) I readilly dissmissed the former, so my conclusion was that a big 'static' would be the answer of all. then, 'I am that I am' flashed in my mind...how does it sound to you guys?

 

cheers

[Fa Xin]

Hello, lazarus, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Hello lazarus,

 

Welcome to TDB...

Sounds like quite the experience. 

 

"Without going outside, you may know the whole world."

 

I don't know where I am half the time, but I do know that I'm always "here" - I can't seem to get away from it ... 

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

Edited April 21, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Marblehead]

Hi Lazarus.  Welcome!

 

Yeah, we are always were we are.  "I am that I am." is a good way of putting it.

 

I'm not sure about being in two places at the same time but I'm viewing this from my mind.  I'm sure it feels better in your mind.

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

16 hours ago, lazarus said:

greetings everyone

 

my name is lazarus, I´m from brazil and so far in the way I´ve been focusing on learning about alchemy, tarot and qabala. but for this first topic I thought it would be appropriate to talk about an experience I had when meditating on the 47th chapter of the Tao.

 

the first time I read it, for some reason I started to think about the distance between one point and another and how endlessly it would be possible to divide the units of measure of this particular space. from that reasoning I drew two premises: either I could never get from point a to b; or there would be no actual distance between them - I´d be already there and where I was at same time, ergo, everywere. for obvious reasons (I believe) I readilly dissmissed the former, so my conclusion was that a big 'static' would be the answer of all. then, 'I am that I am' flashed in my mind...how does it sound to you guys?

 

cheers

 

It reminds me of the paradox of Achilles and the tortoise.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes

 

Welcome to the forum! (I am often here and not here at once.)

 

Besides the DDC, I too dig Alchemy, Tarot and Kabbalah.

[lazarus]

Thank you for the warm welcome and responses, guys! I´ve been reading around and I´m really excited and impressed about the topics and the high level of discussions. What a great place you have here!

On 20/04/2018 at 10:46 PM, Fa Xin said:

Sounds like quite the experience. 

 

cosmic consciousness, right?

 

On 20/04/2018 at 10:46 PM, Fa Xin said:

I don't know where I am half the time, but I do know that I'm always "here" - I can't seem to get away from it ... 

 

that´s quite interesting concept, Fa Xin, looks simple, but to be honest, I couldn´t get my mind around it yet. Unless it’s a joke, then I got it

 

On 21/04/2018 at 7:28 AM, Marblehead said:

I'm not sure about being in two places at the same time but I'm viewing this from my mind.  I'm sure it feels better in your mind.

 

hi Marblehead, I believe what Lao-Tze writes in that chapter comes from a sense of being everywere all the time, the same feeling which enables Hermes (if I remember correctly ) to say ‘think of a place and you are there’. And ‘I am that I am’ sounds to me the best way to describe the experience other than through silence...

 

On 21/04/2018 at 10:29 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

It reminds me of the paradox of Achilles and the tortoise.

 

Oh, that´s exactly it Michael! I knew I had been exposed to the concept before! Thank you for the reference! And even more interesting, scrolling down the article there is this:

 

“A similar ancient Chinese philosophic consideration

 

Ancient Han Chinese philosophers from the Mohist School of Names during the Warring States period of China (479-221 BCE) independently developed equivalents to some of Zeno's paradoxes. The scientist and historian Sir Joseph Needham, in his Science and Civilisation in China, describes an ancient Chinese paradox from the surviving Mohist School of Names book of logic which states, in the archaic ancient Chinese script, "a one-foot stick, every day take away half of it, in a myriad ages it will not be exhausted." Several other paradoxes from this philosophical school (more precisely, movement) are known, but their modern interpretation is more speculative.”

 

 

On 21/04/2018 at 10:29 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

Besides the DDC, I too dig Alchemy, Tarot and Kabbalah.

 

I´ve seen your post about Alchemy, this is gonna be fun

 

thanks everyone!

[Fa Xin]

5 minutes ago, lazarus said:

cosmic consciousness, right?

 

 

that´s quite interesting concept, Fa Xin, looks simple, but to be honest, I couldn´t get my mind around it yet. Unless it’s a joke, then I got it

 

Haha, kind of joke, but serious at the same time... Are you anywhere other than "here" right now?

Edited April 22, 2018 by Fa Xin

[lazarus]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Are you anywhere other than "here" right now?

 

haha indeed I´m not. but then it means I must always know where I am, and that can´t be right

 

 

[Fa Xin]

2 hours ago, lazarus said:

 

haha indeed I´m not. but then it means I must always know where I am, and that can´t be right

 

 

True😊 but where is here?

[lazarus]

2 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

True😊 but where is here?

 

gotta be everywhere/now.

 

(fingers crossed )

[Fa Xin]

32 minutes ago, lazarus said:

 

gotta be everywhere/now.

 

(fingers crossed )

Perhaps. I’m not sure. I guess it depends where “here” is relatively speaking. 

 

I’m on my couch, I’m in my house, I’m in my city, my country. I’m on earth, I’m on this planet. I’m in this dimension. Where is that though? Where do we stand in our reality in relation to the universe? Is our universe a speck in the beard of some celestial monkey? 

 

theres no right or wrong answer, of course. Just want to challenge the mind.  Do we really know this stuff? Is it actually important?

Edited April 22, 2018 by Fa Xin

[lazarus]

I guess it all depends on the perspective. From the point of view of maya, I guess every ‘here’ you mentioned is perfectly acknowledgeable and this matters as long as we decide to keep living ‘here’. The thing is your question - as does the perspective from which Lao-Tze says what he says in the 47^th chapter, the experience I had meditating on it or the paradox recalled by Michael - belongs to the world of causes rather than to the world of effects, and it always strikes me how so many philosophers or mathematicians through time have insisted in approaching this stuff from a materialistic point of view, trying to come up with solutions to those questions based upon the observable universe, time and space, you know? I mean, from the maya perspective, it is granted we can get from a to b. from the Tao perspective, looks like we ARE a, b and everything/everywhere/everywhen (is that a word? 😊) in between, don´t you think?

[Fa Xin]

3 hours ago, lazarus said:

I guess it all depends on the perspective. From the point of view of maya, I guess every ‘here’ you mentioned is perfectly acknowledgeable and this matters as long as we decide to keep living ‘here’. The thing is your question - as does the perspective from which Lao-Tze says what he says in the 47^th chapter, the experience I had meditating on it or the paradox recalled by Michael - belongs to the world of causes rather than to the world of effects, and it always strikes me how so many philosophers or mathematicians through time have insisted in approaching this stuff from a materialistic point of view, trying to come up with solutions to those questions based upon the observable universe, time and space, you know? I mean, from the maya perspective, it is granted we can get from a to b. from the Tao perspective, looks like we ARE a, b and everything/everywhere/everywhen (is that a word? 😊) in between, don´t you think?

 

 

Good stuff.

 

Heres 47 for reference:

Tao exists in one’s own true self.

It cannot be found outside of one’s true nature.

Hence, there is no need to leave the house to take journey in order to know the world.

There is no need to look outside of the window to see the nature of Tao.

The further one departs from Tao, the less one will be able to know.

Therefore a saint is wise to know without seeking for It.

He is wise to understand without seeing It.

He is wise to accomplish according to the Natural Way.

 

I wonder if - we become the world itself?

Or is the world already inside of us?

 

I also wonder if - enlightenment is knowing the answer to everything...

...or not needing to ask the question?

Edited April 23, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

...or not needing to ask the question?

Some questions have no answers.  But we will likely ask them anyhow.

[lazarus]

13 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

I wonder if - we become the world itself?

Or is the world already inside of us?

 

I guess we only become aware of being 'the all'. a friend of mine took the ayahuasca tea and told me one of his experiences was that he saw and was at the same time a boundless lake of 'starry water', and even though knowing nothing whatsoever about Alchemy he described exactly what alchemists call the prima materia, which is perceived at the moment of enlightenment/at-onement. so I would say inside or outside simply cease to exist when this happens - there is just 'there is', you know? and I guess that´s when one becomes able to say 'I and the father are one' or 'before Abraham was, I AM'.

 

13 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

I also wonder if - enlightenment is knowing the answer to everything...

...or not needing to ask the question?

 

about this what I´ve learned is that when the event happens the person gains full and unobstructed access to the memory of nature, the so called akashic records, where all the answers 'dwell' so to say. so it looks like you simply become able to know whatever you want, meaning you still have to ask, which sounds quite reasonable, once god´s plan for us seems to be we become 'like unto Him', not He Himself - Who knows all by definition. hope this makes sense. I´m more or less convinced this is almost it

 

but beyond the Limitless Light, I believe its like Marblehead said, its out of our league to grasp.

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by lazarus

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

I also wonder if - enlightenment is knowing the answer to everything...

 

Better to ask with the word 'anything' rather than 'everything'.  When a person begins coming down from the non thinking, non dual, oneness stage then there occurs something which has been named raincloud samadhi, which some Buddhist traditions say is when all knowledge in the universe pours into you, but that's a typical Buddhist exaggeration.  What happens is that whatever question you have, no matter how difficult or deeply philosophical, the answer comes to you right away and you know it's the right answer.  This period lasts for a little while till the mental jerking off returns in it's full fury.

 

Then later you forget the answers to these deep questions and you realize something more about the (non) value of thinking.  (or the value of non thinking)

 

Quote

...or not needing to ask the question?

 

Then later you lose interest in asking philosophical questions ... but if someone else asks a good question the answers may come.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Starjumper

[9th]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

When a person begins jerking off ... the answers may come.

 

wow.. thats genius!

[Starjumper]

3 hours ago, 9th said:

When a person begins jerking off ... the answers may come.

 

[9th]

8 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

 

Try to keep up, old man.

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, 9th said:

 

Try to keep up, old man.

Don't try that statement with me.

 

[9th]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Don't try that statement with me.

 

 

You want to play a different game?

 

Dont test my patience, mortal.

 

You have been warned.

 

***OFFICIALLY***

(In other Words, whatever happens to you as a result of “testing” me from here on out is sanctioned by the laws of a greater order, and therefore part and parcel of the services provided to you from above and below)

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, 9th said:

 

You want to play a different game?

 

Dont test my patience, mortal.

 

Immortals are supposed to have eternal patience.  After all, they have infinite time to await a proper result.

 

[silent thunder]

 

7 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Immortals are supposed to have eternal patience.  After all, they have infinite time to await a proper result.

 

Nice!  thanks guys.  love this.

 

Perhaps they have eternal 'don't give a fuck'.

The Sage is in the world, but not of it.  Participating, yet not tied to results. 

Not defined by, or identified with, the parade of changing forms.

 

Having made no choice, taken no sides, there is no win and lose.

Hold to the center, constant acknowledgement and release.

 

For any immortal must surely observe... that whatever result arrives... will soon shift and then be?

 

From that take on it... can any result ever be not proper?

 

 

[Starjumper]

17 hours ago, 9th said:

Try to keep up, old man.

 

Do you always underestimate your enemies? (not that we're enemies, but that's how you're supposed to say it.)

 

Don't underestimate some old man who has been doing high level (real) nei kung for thirty years ... I could share some stories ... but won't.

 

We dragons are a bit naive and simple minded in some ways, so pardon me if there was a joke there I missed.

 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, this is just joking around.

 

None of it should be taken seriously.

[Starjumper]

Ya, I know, I made a lame attempt at adding a little humor.  Let the gaming continue.