Stories about Taoism in daily life

[wandelaar]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

Interesting , I suppose this means you see the 'no one' phrase in the colloquial sense. I took it in the more literal one . 

 

I initially also took things literally but I found out that the Tao Te Ching resists a literal interpretation, at least that is my impression.

Edited May 9, 2018 by wandelaar

[Stosh]

28 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

I initially also took things literally but I found out that the Tao Te Ching resists a literal interpretation, at least that is my impression.

Often , I would agree , if one does indeed , consider it to say not a single person at all ! ..,

the grouping would then include the sage and the ubermensch ,and  meaning then that the sage isn't a 'practiticer' of a formula , nor can he describe the parameters of what to do , as specific , rules.. (as we discussed already. ) which leads me to thinking along the lines of attitudes and goals. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Stosh

[wandelaar]

I don't understand what you are saying.

[Stosh]

Oh, sorry,    umm, the sage is under heaven , and so he , would be,  part of the 'no one' , 

that can practice or delineate the way of dao. 

Then to do anything in accord with it , he has to either adjust his attitudes or goals.

( which leaves one flexible about the behaviors , while remaining adamant about abiding by his nature - ^{like water which may be flexible about where it flows , but not at all being flexible about its tendency to go to earth. )}

^{Being colloquial in speech , the  'no one'  ,then,  means the general folks of society that one is aware of , and leaves out the sage .} 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Stosh

[wandelaar]

I see. That's not my cup of tea. Thank you.

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

I see. That's not my cup of tea. Thank you.

Yeah I know , but you asked for an explanation to understand my tea, so I feel obliged. 

[Alchemical Walrus]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

Often , I would agree , if one does indeed , consider it to say not a single person at all ! ..,

the grouping would then include the sage and the ubermensch ,and  meaning then that the sage isn't a 'practiticer' of a formula , nor can he describe the parameters of what to do , as specific , rules.. (as we discussed already. ) which leads me to thinking along the lines of attitudes and goals. 

Thanks!! That's by far my favorite interpretation of that passage that I've ever seen!!

It's very much my cup of tea. One could even say I'm a bit of a tea addict.  

[wandelaar]

Glad to know Stosh doesn't have to drink his tea alone.

[Alchemical Walrus]

Years ago I was able to internalize the Daoist writings on the subject of death, especially Zhuangzi's writings on the topic. I don't mourn death as I once did, and I'm not particularly concerned with when it will fall upon myself. I think that this has probably removed a lot of stress that I'd otherwise might have had in my life.

Although I don't often talk about my views on the subject of death. There's a subset of people who seem to take offense to the statement "I don't view death as a bad thing". I find it easier just to just not bring the topic up.  

 

Zhuangzi's skull pillow is my favorite writing about death. At least I think so. There's a lot of good ones.

[silent thunder]

Thanks for sharing Alchemical Walrus!  Your words resonate deeply here and touch on key aspects of taoist cosmology in my experience.

 

As it applies to daily life.  I no longer perceive life and death as separate, they are one constant mingling fluid dance that resonates bliss, fulfillment, clarity and love in all phases.  My awareness is drawn lately, daily... on my walks, when running errands, to the decay that supports all life... I find attention drawn to and lingers far longer with the brown decaying grasses, with the withering leaves and the fallen decaying aspects of nature... not the green, lush and full ones. 

 

I am appreciating and experiencing on a deep level, the process of decay that nourishes all life.

 

And it is so full of love!  Beyond words, but I'll try once again, because the experience of decay is so full of bliss, clarity... and contentment.   Release and freedom.

 

Decay is happening now, in my gut (and all through my form, but particularly the decay in the gut), and this decay is what nourishes my physical life, nurturing the foundation of this form and the experience of vitality.

 

Decay is the soil of the growth of life.  Life feeds on decay and decay nourishes all life. 

The soil of our entire planet, is literally the bodies of all that ever lived... be they plant, animal, reptile, or insect.

 

Life is acquisitional, seeking and consumptive. 

Decay is nourishing, releasing and nurturing.

These are two aspects of one process.

 

As a toddler, I had an experience that was to set a foundation in my life.  A massive blessing, in the form of a nightmare so terrifying, it prompted my awareness to eject from my body for a short time as I tried to escape the horror.  Once out of the dream, all horror instantly vanished, forgotten as I was in shock, marveling at the sudden shift.  I found myself looking down from the ceiling of a small room, at a little boy lying under covers in bed.  After a few lingering moments, the thought... "is that me?" and then, I was back, looking out of my body at the spot on the ceiling I had just been looking down on my 'self' from, moments before.

 

This experience, rendered me immune to the fear of body death before even having a concept of death, or of a self as a body that could die.  When I later encountered death, it was not a matter of thought... it was an experiential recall that awareness is not limited, nor generated by form.

 

Decay.  Far from being feared I now relish and celebrate her nourishing love.  Not from a desire to obliterate my form, or any other.  But from a deeply experienced appreciation of the shear nurturing, nourishing love emanating from the side of the life process that asks nothing, requires nothing and gives everything.

 

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

On 26-4-2018 at 3:13 AM, wandelaar said:

Anybody read this book?

 

https://books.google.nl/books?id=id_HbDAQnlcC

 

Just finished reading the book, and I am still very positive about it. A no-nonsense guide on applying Taoist wisdom in daily life, explained by way of ancient stories with commentary.

[KuroShiro]

On 5/10/2018 at 5:26 PM, silent thunder said:

As it applies to daily life.  I no longer perceive life and death as separate, they are one constant mingling fluid dance that resonates bliss, fulfillment, clarity and love in all phases.  My awareness is drawn lately, daily... on my walks, when running errands, to the decay that supports all life... I find attention drawn to and lingers far longer with the brown decaying grasses, with the withering leaves and the fallen decaying aspects of nature... not the green, lush and full ones. 

 

I am appreciating and experiencing on a deep level, the process of decay that nourishes all life.

 

 

This is the teaching that impacted me the most when reading about Wu Xing.

 

Thank you for your beautiful post.

[enuffing]

Thanks to wandelaar who pointed me towards this topic.

 

I have started a website which aims to say something about the Dao in daily life on a weekly basis. I try to get this daily life feel across in my drawings and writings... Any ideas for posts would be most welcome  I hope the website can flourish with your help

 

enuffing.com

 

 

[wandelaar]

From your website:

 

Quote

travelling

you can know the world

without ever leaving home

 

 

the further you go in search of meaning

the more confused you may become

 

 

from chapter 47 of the Daodejing

 

Great interpretation! Indeed - meaning instead of mere facts or knowledge is to be found within oneself. Those who travel the world in search of meaning are just carrying themselves around, not realising that they should look inside oneself instead of outside.

 

Do you also have an interpretation for the many (in)famous paradoxes in the Tao Te Ching?

 

(Still miss Old Marblehead, particularly in topics like this...  )

[Spotless]

All of the great practices are essentially those that disengage us from the habituations and inertia’s of trance.

 

The held frequencies that comprise the karmic frequencies through which we wean our personhood to the tidal floods of experiences that we are flowing and ebbing.

 

In Essence Daoism is a practice not a philosophy. It is alive in coming to the spontaneity of Now unencumbered by inertia’s that impart position and the blindness of pasts and futures - beliefs and hopes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Spotless

[manitou]

I had something happen the other day that was as a result of an intentionally blank and meditative mind, no chattering.   Just awareness.  That is when I can hear 'the voice', although not a spoken one.  More of an off-the-wall urge that comes from out of nowhere.

 

I was driving down a boulevard and I noticed a seemingly homeless man, long white beard, sitting on a curb in the middle of the block.  He had behind him a grocery cart filled with recyclable plastic, he wasn't begging.  He was just gazing down at the street in front of him.  The urge I instantly got was 'Give that man $20.00'.  I circled the block, pulled up in front of him, took out a $20 and walked up to him.  I said 'It looks like you're life's a little rough right now, would you accept a gift from me?'  His response was to give me a big hug (his beard was wonderfully soft) and gave me a toothless smile and said 'I can't believe it.  Twenty dollars is exactly what I need!'

 

I dunno.  There's Daoist philosophy in there somewhere.

Edited December 31, 2018 by manitou

[manitou]

11 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

Here is a story, from my life. Reading Chuang Tzu's Horse's Hoofs:
 

 

When I was a High School teacher for a short time years ago, I saw the true nature of these children, both collectively and individually. There was a lot of advice on how to manage them, but no matter what anyone did, a certain amount would "fail".

I understood the stupidity of living like Po-lâo and I quit teaching in schools.
 

 

 

 

A year or two I heard of a school, maybe in England, that allows children to do exactly what they want.  In fact, I heard this in one of Father Anthony DeMello's CD's.  (Thanks, Steve!)  He talked of the extraordinary success derived from letting the kids either go to class or not, take whatever they want - it reminded me of the upward motion of awareness once it has been even slightly awakened.

[wandelaar]

8 hours ago, manitou said:

I had something happen the other day that was as a result of an intentionally blank and meditative mind, no chattering.   Just awareness.  That is when I can hear 'the voice', although not a spoken one.  More of an off-the-wall urge that comes from out of nowhere.

 

I was driving down a boulevard and I noticed a seemingly homeless man, long white beard, sitting on a curb in the middle of the block.  He had behind him a grocery cart filled with recyclable plastic, he wasn't begging.  He was just gazing down at the street in front of him.  The urge I instantly got was 'Give that man $20.00'.  I circled the block, pulled up in front of him, took out a $20 and walked up to him.  I said 'It looks like you're life's a little rough right now, would you accept a gift from me?'  His response was to give me a big hug (his beard was wonderfully soft) and gave me a toothless smile and said 'I can't believe it.  Twenty dollars is exactly what I need!'

 

I dunno.  There's Daoist philosophy in there somewhere.

 

Sure - there is! Acting from a blank mind can have wonderful effects. Sort of wu wei.

 

(How that works is another matter...)

[wandelaar]

When reading the posts of manitou in this topic I just now had my own "Tao in daily life"-experience. I had already started writing one more comment in a discussion in another topic that should have stopped much earlier. But then I remembered that everything had already been said. Just one more comment by myself would only result in jet another comment by my opponent until one of us would give up. So I have deleted the comment I was already working on. I will let my opponent have "the last word".

 

Important Taoist rules of thumb in all this that I frequently use (but still sometimes ignore to my own detriment) are: "enough is enough", "know when to stop", "winning by loosing", and "avoiding useless debates".

[manitou]

45 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

When reading the posts of manitou in this topic I just now had my own "Tao in daily life"-experience. I had already started writing one more comment in a discussion in another topic that should have stopped much earlier. But then I remembered that everything had already been said. Just one more comment by myself would only result in jet another comment by my opponent until one of us would give up. So I have deleted the comment I was already working on. I will let my opponent have "the last word".

 

Important Taoist rules of thumb in all this that I frequently use (but still sometimes ignore to my own detriment) are: "enough is enough", "know when to stop", "winning by loosing", and "avoiding useless debates".

 

 

I think knowing when to stop and letting someone else have the last word is a way of removing yet another chunk of ego within.  Those moments create a tinge of momentary pain but yield long lasting results in enlightened development.  You actually are the winner in a much larger game.  Continual engagement with an opponent only serves to heighten our illusive sense of separation from that entity.

[manitou]

Excellent reference, Song of the Dao.  What a fine addition you are to the forum.  So if I'm reading the master right, he is saying to not-do on a massive scale?  To let nature take its course, to let the karma catch up with the bad ruler?  He seems to be inferring that unless and until one can get inside the mind and motive of the opponent, all other methodology will be a fool's mission; and the desire for interfering in the name of virtue will cause the depletion of virtue?  Ah, the ego wins again.

 

This statement from your referenced article reminds me of turning on the news every morning:

 

'I have heard that the ruler of Wei is in the vigour of his years, and consults none but himself as to his course. He deals with his state as if it were a light matter, and has no perception of his errors. He thinks lightly of his people's dying;

 

[wandelaar]

@ Song of the Dao

 

My opponent was not a tyrant capable of having me killed. But parts of your Chuang tzu quotes are applicable nevertheless. There is often a lot of ego boosting involved even in supposedly objective debates. I too like to "win", particularly when I think I am provably right and my opponent is provable wrong. I feel like a warrior (or nonsense fighter) battling on a lofty mission. But however one might think about that, it simply doesn't work. People who don't share my perspective on truth will brush away my arguments as false or irrelevant no matter how convincing they seem to me. And the same goes for my opinion about the arguments of my opponents. Chuang tzu has some nice stories about this also. So basically trying to convince somebody with a fundamentally different perspective on truth by means of debate is hopeless, and one shouldn't even try. That is - unless one can do so in a playful manner, as a game, or to sharp one's wits.

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by wandelaar

[manitou]

43 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said:

 

Yes, we have schools like that here in the states. They are called Free Schools. I was involved with one for a short time. The apprehension the parents have the idea was hysterical to watch. I did not like the idea of the kids voting on stuff though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_school_movement

 

 

Yes, Summerhill!  That's the one Anthony DeMello was speaking of.  I guess it's not in England, it's in the U.S.

[rideforever]

On 30/12/2018 at 5:18 PM, Song of the Dao said:

Horses, when living in the open country, eat the grass, and drink water; when pleased, they intertwine their necks and rub one another;

 

The horse feel blessed when someone remembers their true nature and are grateful.

 

 

[manitou]

5 hours ago, Song of the Dao said:

 

Thanks Manitou. It is good to be here. Probably the only reason I can stand the internet.

 

Yes, not do on a massive scale! These two parts of that chapter reference what you are speaking of, mostly the hubris of thinking we can change things and the benefit of being useless in the world and waiting for the Dao to balance things on its' own. I have found that this save a lot of energy in my life.
 

 

 

 

 

'The varnish tree is useful, and therefore cuts are made in it".  My mom used to read to me "The Giving Tree", written by Shel Silverstein, when I was young.  I always cried because there was nothing left but a stump - and folks were still using it to sit on