Taoist rules of thumb

[wandelaar]

Here are some rules of thumb for acting in the spirit of Lao tse and Chuang tse:

 

- Never overdo things.

- Don't brag of your accomplishments.

- Keep an eye on the inherent dynamics of situations.

- Look for polarities in evaluating situations.

- Act on the right moment.

- If possible act when problems are still easily solved.

- Consider paradoxical actions when direct approaches don't work.

- Don't let egocentric considerations becloud your evaluation of situations.

- Don't get caught in tunnel vision or group think, but regularly try out other perspectives.

- Use meditation to just observe your emotions as they come and go, thus weakening their grip on your life and decisions.

- Let your intuition suggest creative approaches to daily problems.

- Using empty spaces is just as important as using solid things.

- Let the (easy) opportunities of a situation be your guide.

- Don't use a difficult approach for showing your skill when something less demanding will do.

- Don't follow desires that will (probably) hurt you.

- Don't micromanage.

- Don't unnecessarily confront or belittle other people.

 

- Don't limit yourself to (these) rules of thumb when you see another appropriate way of proceeding.

 

Any comments? Are there some rules you disagree with? Am I missing a rule?

 

I know that the whole thing has to become automatic, second nature, or intuitive eventually. But that's not the point here. I just want to know whether the above list contains the most important rules.  

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by wandelaar

[dawei]

Interesting list...   I have argued elsewhere that DDJ 25 is recursive as:

 

Man follows Earth, follows Heaven, Follows Dao, Follows Ziran.

 

While the first two have the laws of nature to obey, they ultimately take their cue from Dao and the ability to self-arise (Ziran).

 

But this still needs another point made in Chapter 51;

Dao provides for life; De provides their nurture

 

It is interesting that the Grand Historian, Sima Qian said tersely, "Laozi cultivated Dao and De".    

 

When one is not there yet, a list or guide or a Way is a useful reminder to keep the path...  a light to shine in the direction to walk one day without effort...  yet to effortlessly provide and nurture...   Could be yourself or another in that mix...

 

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

Here are some rules of thumb for acting in the spirit of Lao tse and Chuang tse:

 

- Never overdo things.

- Don't brag of your accomplishments.

- Keep an eye on the inherent dynamics of situations.

- Look for polarities in evaluating situations.

- Act on the right moment.

- If possible act when problems are still easily solved.

- Consider paradoxical actions when direct approaches don't work.

- Don't let egocentric considerations becloud your evaluation of situations.

- Don't get caught in tunnel vision or group think, but regularly try out other perspectives.

- Use meditation to just observe your emotions as they come and go, thus weakening their grip on your life and decisions.

- Let your intuition suggest creative approaches to daily problems.

- Using empty spaces is just as important as using solid things.

- Let the (easy) opportunities of a situation be your guide.

- Don't use a difficult approach for showing your skill when something less demanding will do.

- Don't follow desires that will (probably) hurt you.

- Don't micromanage.

- Don't unnecessarily confront or belittle other people.

 

- Don't limit yourself to (these) rules of thumb when you see another appropriate way of proceeding.

 

Any comments? Are there some rules you disagree with? Am I missing a rule?

 

I know that the whole thing has to become automatic, second nature, or intuitive eventually. But that's not the point here. I just want to know whether the above list contains the most important rules. 

 

 

The one "rule" that is missing is that that, rigorously, there are no rules in Daoism. For "the way that can be shown is not the real way" - as Laotzu lets us know first off.

 

Other than that, your list seems pretty comprehensive.

[wandelaar]

1 minute ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The one "rule" that is missing is that that, rigorously, there are no rules in Daoism. For "the way that can be shown is not the real way" - as Laotzu lets us know first off.

 

Other than that, your list seems pretty comprehensive.

 

How about the last rule?

[Wu Ming Jen]

Taoist rule of thumb is that if we did not have a thumb we would not be able to grab things.

 

Tao rules the the land. Tao actualy sets all the rules, fire rises, water sinks. Being, non being so if one is looking for actual rules  we are living them on a daily basis.

 

Thumbs make it possible to grab ahold of heaven and earth and exceed any rules made by men for their power is just for pretend. 

[Michael Sternbach]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

How about the last rule?

 

Same as the first, for the way is a circle.

[wandelaar]

One more rule of thumb:

 

- To conquer oneself is better than conquering others.

 

(Except in cases of emergency I guess.)

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

One more rule of thumb:

 

- To conquer oneself is better than conquering others.

 

(Except in cases of emergency I guess.)

Those damned exceptions to the rule.  Always popping up in life.

 

[wandelaar]

9 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Those damned exceptions to the rule.  Always popping up in life.

 

We have to live with that I guess. But on the other hand: how would it be if every problem in life had a clear answer, and our role was reduced to trying to follow up those answers to the best of our ability.

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

We have to live with that I guess. But on the other hand: how would it be if every problem in life had a clear answer, and our role was reduced to trying to follow up those answers to the best of our ability.

Yeah, I enjoy dealing with most surprises that enter my life.  Makes life more interesting.  Never knowing what's going to happen next.

 

[silent thunder]

Confucius was fond of rules.  Seemed to think there was one for every situation.

 

Rules... seem like little more than stories of mind, made to interpret that which is...

[Michael Sternbach]

6 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

We have to live with that I guess. But on the other hand: how would it be if every problem in life had a clear answer, and our role was reduced to trying to follow up those answers to the best of our ability.

 

Quite limiting. Actually, pretty dull in my view.

 

At best, rules are a thumb pointing at the moon.

[liminal_luke]

Yeah, the very idea of applying rules to situations sounds kinda anti-Daoist to me.  Right off the bat, I`m questioning the list.  Never brag?  Never overdo it?  Well, I guess that eliminates some of our very best Bums!  (Not that I`m naming names.)  If it`s un-Daoist to follow rules of thumb, it`s equally un-Daoist to rebel against them. 

 

(Luke goes directly to jail, does not pass Go, does not collect $200.  That`s OK: he reckons jail`s as good as anywhere else for Daoist development.  There`s lots to be learned from the rule breakers.)

Edited April 24, 2018 by liminal_luke

[wandelaar]

Everybody is using rules. Whether you call it rules or not. Language wouldn't exist without rules, society wouldn't exist without rules, internet wouldn't exist without rules. Even the meta-rule declaring that RULES ARE TO BE AVOIDED is a rule. Freedom of mind is not to be found in promoting new taboos that are the opposite of the old ones, but in finding your own way.

[dawei]

45 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Everybody is using rules. Whether you call it rules or not. Language wouldn't exist without rules, society wouldn't exist without rules, internet wouldn't exist without rules. Even the meta-rule declaring that RULES ARE TO BE AVOIDED is a rule. Freedom of mind is not to be found in promoting new taboos that are the opposite of the old ones, but in finding your own way.

 

you'e fallen into the dualistic trap.   The way to side step duality is not with a rule but to be without any rule at all.   That's the point of the first line of the DDJ...    Once you name anything, it manifests.  

[Stosh]

The basic idea is to learn to trust in your better nature. Rules often fail, but may help break bad habits. Still though the idea is to keep heading away from artificial controls as naturalness prevails more over time. 

 

If your rule is effortless to abide by, keep it. 

[Starjumper]

One rule was missed: Do not give gifts to someone with more energy than yourself.

[wandelaar]

6 hours ago, Starjumper said:

One rule was missed: Do not give gifts to someone with more energy than yourself.

 

Thank you! Seems reasonable enough, but is it Taoist? Is it to be found in Lao tse or Chuang tse? Or perhaps it's a consequence of not overdoing things and of preferring harmony and the middle way?

 

That brings me to some other rules a missed:

- Follow the middle way.

- Use the golden rule (not doing to others what you don't want to be done to yourself).

- Prefer harmony.

 

[Marblehead]

I do like harmony.

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Like ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony. What a minute those are lyrics to a song.

 

yin and yang live in perfect harmony they complete each other.

 

when opposites are in separate camps and unrelated they become hostile to each other and rules are made.

 

Man made rules allows things like cops and robbers to be partners or insurance co and medical system to hold hands or FDA and food industry to profit over the health of the people. Natures rules benefit all things not just the special interest groups or the people with pretend power and wealth. It is funny like a tragic comedy. Nature rules everything else is imitation

[wandelaar]

Instead of moving beyond rules by using them when they seem to apply and ignoring them when they don't, it has become the new rule or dogma to indiscriminately attack all rules. It's yin and yang indeed, but they have become separated. Ideological fashions swing back and forth without finding a higher synthesis. It's like either you're for or against.

 

Happily Lao tse had no problem with rules of thumb, and his Tao Te Ching uses them to great effect.

[Starjumper]

3 hours ago, wandelaar said:

10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

One rule was missed: Do not give gifts to someone with more energy than yourself.

 

Thank you! Seems reasonable enough, but is it Taoist? Is it to be found in Lao tse or Chuang tse? Or perhaps it's a consequence of not overdoing things and of preferring harmony and the middle way?

 

It was in a book written by Hua Ching Ni, I don't know what his ratio of Taoist/Confusedanist was.  There were other interesting rules on his list but that's the only one I remember because it made me think.  

 

The way I look at it is that if you give gifts to someone who has more energy than yourself it is because you want something from them, and it is an attempt at bribery, which feels just wrong, doesn't it?  This then puts sort of a bad light on the tradition of people giving gifts or money to yogis.  This also now makes me rethink the idea of being open for donations to keep my place running.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Starjumper

[Stosh]

I like harmony ,, and birds,, 

[Rara]

18 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Yeah, the very idea of applying rules to situations sounds kinda anti-Daoist to me.  Right off the bat, I`m questioning the list.  Never brag?  Never overdo it?  Well, I guess that eliminates some of our very best Bums!  (Not that I`m naming names.)  If it`s un-Daoist to follow rules of thumb, it`s equally un-Daoist to rebel against them. 

 

(Luke goes directly to jail, does not pass Go, does not collect $200.  That`s OK: he reckons jail`s as good as anywhere else for Daoist development.  There`s lots to be learned from the rule breakers.)

 

Actually I think the OP was right first time.

 

The braggers/overdoers appear to me to be those struggling with Daoism.

 

The DDJ is a rulebook in that it's a philosophy. If you break the rules then you're following a different philosophy, right?

[Rara]

17 hours ago, dawei said:

 

you'e fallen into the dualistic trap.   The way to side step duality is not with a rule but to be without any rule at all.   That's the point of the first line of the DDJ...    Once you name anything, it manifests.  

 

Following on from my post above...

 

Yes.

 

You cannot speak about Dao. But if you REALLY must, heres a little book for you to try and get to grips with it.