Taoist rules of thumb

[Wu Ming Jen]

Taoist rules of thumb.... end of story ,no discussion necessary. If you do not mind it doesn't matter. mind over matter. a matter of mind, what's the matter, mind what you matter, a matter of fact nothing is the matter, Maybe we can discuss the matter of taoist rules of thumb just for fun. Let's spin it forward and backward and hear perceptions of infinite angles and dance in the moonlight. Or not

[Marblehead]

10 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

... and dance in the moonlight. 

Do we have to get naked for that?

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Do we have to get naked for that?

 

 

[Starjumper]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:32 AM, wandelaar said:

 

 

edited

Edited April 27, 2018 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:32 AM, wandelaar said:

On 4/26/2018 at 5:11 AM, Marblehead said:

Marblehead's rule of thumb:  When hungry, eat; when tired, rest.

 

After that:

 

Go chop more wood and get more water.

 

I like that one. And it would probably suffice for a hermit.

 

Ya, a hermit with no internet.  I should kill my computer.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Starjumper

[Liberius Ultorus]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:49 PM, Stosh said:

The basic idea is to learn to trust in your better nature. Rules often fail, but may help break bad habits. Still though the idea is to keep heading away from artificial controls as naturalness prevails more over time. 

 

If your rule is effortless to abide by, keep it. 

Perfect. Be good and natural, like Lenny Kravitz. haha

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, Liberius Ultorus said:

Perfect. Be good and natural, like Lenny Kravitz. haha

I don't know anything about Lenny,   his wikipedia thing reads complimentary to his character..

but I would say that most people would rather get along , be nice, do some kind of service , be appreciated and rewarded for it. Many get led astray, learn bad habits ,or get frustrated by it all. So this idea of naturalness isn't just to flail around making the same mistakes one usually makes , but to actually put the pieces together so that one is actually getting to those good places. You have to trust in the basic decency of people to suggest it ,

and,   be aware that the best angels of our intent aren't always up front and center running the show. 

[9th]

1 hour ago, Liberius Ultorus said:

Perfect. Be good and natural, like Lenny Kravitz. haha

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

17 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

... and dance in the moonlight. Or not

 

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Do we have to get naked for that?

 

 

The Daoist rule of thumb is quite explicit on this point: all moonlight dancing shall be done in the buff.  

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Ya, a hermit with no internet.  I should kill my computer.

No, don't do that.  I wouldn't be able to mess with you any more.

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

My thumbs always dance naked in the moonlight except when it is super cold that's the exception to the rule.

[wandelaar]

Well I guess Lao tse must have included those rules of thumb because he needed some extra characters to fill up his book, and not to give some sagely advise from an old man to those wishing to follow the Way.

 

Or did he?

[Stosh]

What if you live in an urban area?

[wandelaar]

4 minutes ago, Stosh said:

What if you live in an urban area?

 

Good question! And as the answers I have already given did not particularly resonate I will wait to see what others have to offer. Maybe they come up with something better? That would be nice!

[Stosh]

On 4/28/2018 at 5:16 AM, wandelaar said:

 

Good question! And as the answers I have already given did not particularly resonate I will wait to see what others have to offer. Maybe they come up with something better? That would be nice!

How is that a good question? It just underlines why rules do not stand up to real world situations, and they are not what is being presented. What was being presented was alternatives to a conventional mindset , It makes a big difference if one thinks virtues are embodied in following rules which do or do not apply to an instance , and understanding that what is called virtue, depends on the instance.

Saying " Go west young man ", only was decent advice for some , not all. 

 

Pick a chapter that you think gives you an unambiguous rule. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Stosh

[wandelaar]

Thanks for your opinion on this matter. Your point has already been dealt with before: it's the fallacy that something has to be either black (worthless) or white (infallible). A trick that suffices to kill off any position one happens to dislike. So I'm not going to discuss that once again.

[Marblehead]

I will just stick with my shades of grey.

 

[Stosh]

57 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Thanks for your opinion on this matter. Your point has already been dealt with before: it's the fallacy that something has to be either black (worthless) or white (infallible). A trick that suffices to kill off any position one happens to dislike. So I'm not going to discuss that once again.

No its not a trick. I can see you are worried about giving an example and cooperating in the illustration , because you prefer just insisting that there have to be rules , which you would just blow off as the mood fit. They weren't providing that.

The sun shines on both the wicked and the just , the sun does that it's neutral , and thus of universal opportunity , a good thing.

They said what they said and made it's assertions neutral.   

  Though ,the sun is neutral about you or I , (as the whole of Tao is ,  since both yin and yang equate and its a finite system) it makes a difference in what your game plan is , due to its existing.  

So the DDJ is like the useless tree that doesn't get cut down because its unfitted for being used as a tool to some particular end. 

It provides shade , and a venue for gathering etc ,as its manifestations allow- But its not a respect-er of men ,- it isn't taking sides. 

If one considers that yin brings about yang as an integral consequence of existing , there is nothing one can do to force the world to un-balance in either the yin or yang direction, so the DDJ cannot make the world a better place by giving a biased set of rules , it can make the world a bit better , provide relief -shade , a place to gather- relate ... by benefit of its manifesting neutrally. 

This is what is being discussed as virtue. Not the biased virtue of Christians and Pagan alike, this is suggesting that one gets to exist and manifest according to their nature , and leave the rest alone un-interfered with, and its the most appropriate definition of what virtue is. 

They wanted to write things of virtue , and so , its neutral, not a rule book. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Stosh

[wandelaar]

And there we have the straw man. One fallacy after another. I never said it was a "rule book". But it's time to stop.

 

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

And there we have the straw man. One fallacy after another. I never said it was a "rule book". But it's time to stop.

 

That's not what a straw man is , a 'straw man' is when you re-frame someone else's argument so it looks obviously false so you can push it over. 

[wandelaar]

Another great example of Lao Tse embracing a rule of thumb:

 

Quote

What others teach, I also teach; that is:
"A violent man will die a violent death!"
This will be the essence of my teaching.

 

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu42.html

[Stosh]

Thats not a rule, and its not Taoist per se, and some just don,t want to slide into sneaky oblivion anyway!

[silent thunder]

to every season... turn, turn.

to every rule... an exception.

[wandelaar]

Acknowledging the facts just as they are, is a very difficult thing when our ego stands in the way.

Edited May 4, 2018 by wandelaar

[Stosh]

17 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Acknowledging the facts just as they are, is a very difficult thing when our ego stands in the way.

I forgive you .