Is being a Daoist for the well off

[Marblehead]

Just be careful where you touch me!

 

[wandelaar]

23 hours ago, Daemon said:

I'll pick that up as well.

 

(Apologies to the OP for the slight detour off topic.)

 

☮️

 

Is there some other thread where this off topic discussion is continued?

 

 

[Daemon]

Not yet. I'll PM you when I start it.

 

☮️

[Stosh]

4 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Just be careful where you touch me!

 

Ok, name the parts you want touched. 

[Lost in Translation]

20 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@ Lost in Translation

 

What exactly should be the topic for the possible thread you hinted at?

 

I'm not sure. Perhaps something akin to the "Telephone game" as it applies to teaching? Every generation (teacher) adds his own slight variations and over time they reveal new and deeper knowledge while also concealing and eventually losing old knowledge. Something like that should do.

[wandelaar]

Yes - but shouldn't we add a question or point of discussion to it?

[Lost in Translation]

If it is meant to be then I am sure you, or someone else, will find a way to express it.

[wandelaar]

How about: "What's the use of schools and lineages within Taoism in the Modern World?"

 

Is this OK, and is it correct English?

[Marblehead]

Yes, a good question and should be understandable by nearly all.

 

But I won't speak to the question for now.

 

[wandelaar]

The topic has been started. So let's see what happens...

[Small Fur]

On April 23, 2018 at 8:47 PM, Mig said:

Just wondering if becoming a Daoist practitioners is for people who are well off financially and have the gut to say, I retire and live life in a simple way. Or do we know Daoist practitioners who came from the hood and lived hardship all their lives? Just wondering.

Ultimately, this is the same as asking if being Enlightened is only for the sacrificial poor, or the privileged wealthy; if it is for the home owner, or the temple dweller; if it is for one fragment of the ten thousand things versus a different fragment that is also one in the totality of what is the ten thousand things. Do not lose yourself in the mire of one million thoughts and their external representations.

 

It is the quality of clarified depth in your virtue that provides the internal orientation to what is essential and leads to the consciousness of the system, not your unconscious actions and reactions in the mundane.

[Small Fur]

-

Edited June 4, 2018 by Small Fur

[Lost in Translation]

I am reacquainting myself with I Ching. I am only realising now how much I did not see before. Between Ch'ien and K'un lies all of creation. This is true wealth.

[Rara]

On 01/05/2018 at 9:26 AM, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

My lineage is 16 th generation longmen pai dragon gate wudang shen. If one can last just one month of training I would consider discussing with that person how traditional lineages have wandered from the source. 

 

WMJ, where did you go? I am at Dragongate now! Plum Valley....

 

One week in, three to go

[Rocky Lionmouth]

16 hours ago, Rara said:

I am at Dragongate now!

 

Thats cool! Hope you have a good one there!

[Wu Ming Jen]

On 5/14/2019 at 1:49 AM, Rara said:

 

WMJ, where did you go? I am at Dragongate now! Plum Valley....

 

One week in, three to go

Rara This is so exciting. I am in Montreal Canada back to the mountain in the fall. I would love to hear about your adventures. Have you been up on the mountain? My school is located down the steps on the other side of the road of Purple heaven Palace. Very excited for you wish I could meet up with you. Long live Wudang Kung Fu!

[zerostao]

my definition of "well off"

Spoiler

and I think it would be compatible being Daoist

[Rara]

11 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Rara This is so exciting. I am in Montreal Canada back to the mountain in the fall. I would love to hear about your adventures. Have you been up on the mountain? My school is located down the steps on the other side of the road of Purple heaven Palace. Very excited for you wish I could meet up with you. Long live Wudang Kung Fu!

 

Hey! And I meant "Plum Ditch", not "Plum Valley"

 

Yes, I've been up the mountain once and seen Nanyan Palace (I especially love the Dragon Incense - How on earth did they build that?!) Purple Heaven, Carefree Valley (with all the Monkeys) and Taizi Po. We only get Mondays off so I hope to go again next Monday to see Golden Palace and back to Nanyan again, because it was very cloudy and misty last week. I would like to see some more views if the weather will be clearer. Still, it was very cool looking around with all the clouds and mist.

 

Life at Dragongate is nice with a good community. Training is tough though, my legs have struggled and I've even pulled a muscle in my left calf. 5am start with a 9pm finish, it isn't what I expected at all. BUT, I should have learnt all of the Taiji 32 Form before I have left and a qigong sequence.

 

Being here, in answer to the OP, no, I don't think being a Taoist is for the well off. In fact, my stay here is very cheap and I am fed 3 meals a day. I believe the school (and all others in Wudangshan) have all lost popularity over the years, yet they make do with what they have.

 

They look after about 20 kids here, like a boarding school, and they have some incredible skills. It's difficult to keep up with their energy but they are keeping me going. They're fantastic people, and very courteous

[Wu Ming Jen]

On 5/17/2019 at 11:25 PM, Rara said:

 

Hey! And I meant "Plum Ditch", not "Plum Valley"

 

Yes, I've been up the mountain once and seen Nanyan Palace (I especially love the Dragon Incense - How on earth did they build that?!) Purple Heaven, Carefree Valley (with all the Monkeys) and Taizi Po. We only get Mondays off so I hope to go again next Monday to see Golden Palace and back to Nanyan again, because it was very cloudy and misty last week. I would like to see some more views if the weather will be clearer. Still, it was very cool looking around with all the clouds and mist.

 

Life at Dragongate is nice with a good community. Training is tough though, my legs have struggled and I've even pulled a muscle in my left calf. 5am start with a 9pm finish, it isn't what I expected at all. BUT, I should have learnt all of the Taiji 32 Form before I have left and a qigong sequence.

 

Being here, in answer to the OP, no, I don't think being a Taoist is for the well off. In fact, my stay here is very cheap and I am fed 3 meals a day. I believe the school (and all others in Wudangshan) have all lost popularity over the years, yet they make do with what they have.

 

They look after about 20 kids here, like a boarding school, and they have some incredible skills. It's difficult to keep up with their energy but they are keeping me going. They're fantastic people, and very courteous

At nanyan palace is a tea shop. The tea ceremony is worth the time 30 - 40 minutes. You get to taste the different teas of Wudang and can buy some to bring home. Cheng San Fengs cave is behind purple heaven off the beaten track but someone from your school could go with you to show the way. Thunder god cave is cool you may have already found that. Golden top is awesome I suggest taking the stairs and if you run out of time to get back down there is the cable car opposite side of the valley with buses at the bottom to get you back to dragon gate.

 

Love to hear about your adventure, injuries and soreness is a thing let your teachers know about any injury the have amazing skills herbs and remedies.

 

[Rara]

14 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

At nanyan palace is a tea shop. The tea ceremony is worth the time 30 - 40 minutes. You get to taste the different teas of Wudang and can buy some to bring home. Cheng San Fengs cave is behind purple heaven off the beaten track but someone from your school could go with you to show the way. Thunder god cave is cool you may have already found that. Golden top is awesome I suggest taking the stairs and if you run out of time to get back down there is the cable car opposite side of the valley with buses at the bottom to get you back to dragon gate.

 

Love to hear about your adventure, injuries and soreness is a thing let your teachers know about any injury the have amazing skills herbs and remedies.

 

 

I went back up today We took a cable up to Golden Summit but walked back down. Even now my legs are sore because of all the training!

 

I revisited Nanyan and saw much more as it was a clear day. I didn't try the tea shop this time around but I may get another chance to go up again before I leave.

 

I managed to take a walk around the wall of Purple Heaven, around the back of the palace, but I didn't go with anybody that knows the area, so didn't find the cave. I will ask my teacher and maybe I will locate it one day. But yes, I saw Thunder God cave last week.

 

I walked down some stairs opposite Purple Heaven and found a martial arts school - I assume it's yours. I took a photo so will try and send it to you. So our schools must be related, just located elsewhere? As mine is Dragongate, but not in the national geopark...

 

About injuries, a fellow student has been using something called moxa on her knee. We have various rubs for muscles that I have been using but I have nothing too serious. My elbow has been in pain for a long time from hard martial arts though. My teacher knows and I may get something for that. 

[wandelaar]

Great to read of your adventures. 

I don't like travelling myself, so I always like to learn about far away places from people who go there.

[Desmonddf]

A daoist can be filthy rich, and still follow the Dao.

 

A daoist can be filthy poor, and still follow the Dao.

 

The Dao starts with following nature. Those who follow nature will be subjected to its cycles. Richness and poverty are also a cycle, and learning to identify those cycles and choose which way to follow is part of daoism.

 

If your personal Dao is one of poverty, then you'll always choose to remain in the poverty part of the cycles in your life, going away when prosperity manifests, while if your personal Dao is one of richness, then you'll always choose to remain in the richness part of the cycles in your life, going away when prosperity stops manifesting.

 

If you get attached to your job, family or the fear of losing things, of not being able to provide to your family or to fail at some kind of social construct, then you cannot follow any cycle. You'll forever be fighting against the Dao.

 

Dao is change. If you intend on "fight on" and justify that as "I can't give myself this luxury!" then you won't indeed be able to follow the Dao.

 

Dettachment isn't more difficult for those who have more, it is more difficult for those who have less. Are you willing to go through hunger and pain in order to follow a spiritual path?

 

If not, then you either won't be able to follow the Dao or will need to have a great deal of internal development before following it (to the point where you can predict and affect the cycles around you).

[GreytoWhite]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:04 AM, Rara said:

Rhetorical question alert:

 

To learn Daoism from those with heritage or a lineage of "credibility", where do you go and how much does it cost you?

 

Everyone's path is different. So far it's cost me less than $200 but a shit ton of effort, mental and physical abuse (xingyi), and my sanity a few times.  Where do I go? At first it was a friend who knew Chen village taiji and Mantak Chia's stuff but I lost my mind with a physical trauma release and entheogenic trip. Then I started doing BK Frantzis' meditations at a recommendation of someone to help me fix myself and Sedona Method as an add on dissolving practice. Next, I went to train Kenny Gong's line of xingyi and bagua and lost my mind again thanks to abuse and the instructor's incomplete understanding. I've been working on the Dragongate Sanctuary material of late and it's really changed my life.

Honestly, I think the martial arts side of this is the least important aspect. Getting your body, mind, and spirit right are really far more important. Once you can sit down and pivot your viewpoint, you can shift your life.  Also, don't discount Buddhist practice, it's a good fit to add. Since I started doing reiki hardcore I've gotten a new job that fits my scheduling and work environment needs. It's more important for me to have a job that enables me to spend time with my son than making a LOT of $$$.

[Wu Ming Jen]

10 hours ago, Rara said:

 

I went back up today We took a cable up to Golden Summit but walked back down. Even now my legs are sore because of all the training!

 

I revisited Nanyan and saw much more as it was a clear day. I didn't try the tea shop this time around but I may get another chance to go up again before I leave.

 

I managed to take a walk around the wall of Purple Heaven, around the back of the palace, but I didn't go with anybody that knows the area, so didn't find the cave. I will ask my teacher and maybe I will locate it one day. But yes, I saw Thunder God cave last week.

 

I walked down some stairs opposite Purple Heaven and found a martial arts school - I assume it's yours. I took a photo so will try and send it to you. So our schools must be related, just located elsewhere? As mine is Dragongate, but not in the national geopark...

 

About injuries, a fellow student has been using something called moxa on her knee. We have various rubs for muscles that I have been using but I have nothing too serious. My elbow has been in pain for a long time from hard martial arts though. My teacher knows and I may get something for that. 

This is awesome.

 

If you follow the outside of the wall there is an old walk way and stairs. You pass threw a very old heavenly gate with trees growing out of it, you will pass a cement eight trigram work out spot this is where legend has Cheng three peaks creating Tai Chi Chuan up a bit more and you are at the cave. A monk lives in the cave year round. Behind purple heave in the complex there is parents hall on the right side of the building there is a door in the wall if it is open it is a short cut to the path of the cave.

 

Our schools are totally related we are official kung fu brothers, very cool. Nice you found my school thanks for the picture.

[Rara]

7 hours ago, GreytoWhite said:

 

Everyone's path is different. So far it's cost me less than $200 but a shit ton of effort, mental and physical abuse (xingyi), and my sanity a few times.  Where do I go? At first it was a friend who knew Chen village taiji and Mantak Chia's stuff but I lost my mind with a physical trauma release and entheogenic trip. Then I started doing BK Frantzis' meditations at a recommendation of someone to help me fix myself and Sedona Method as an add on dissolving practice. Next, I went to train Kenny Gong's line of xingyi and bagua and lost my mind again thanks to abuse and the instructor's incomplete understanding. I've been working on the Dragongate Sanctuary material of late and it's really changed my life.

Honestly, I think the martial arts side of this is the least important aspect. Getting your body, mind, and spirit right are really far more important. Once you can sit down and pivot your viewpoint, you can shift your life.  Also, don't discount Buddhist practice, it's a good fit to add. Since I started doing reiki hardcore I've gotten a new job that fits my scheduling and work environment needs. It's more important for me to have a job that enables me to spend time with my son than making a LOT of $$$.

 

I dig Dragongate.

 

But yes, reading Frantzis' The Power Of Internal Martial Arts and Chi and he highly advocates nei gong practices before beginning on any forms for fighting.