What's the use of schools and lineages within Taoism in the Modern World?

[silent thunder]

Quote

 

what has value?

what is valuable... what is value?

A cup with no hollow may have great value (made of gold, or gifted by a loved one to express connection and love), but having no hollow, it would be of little use...  being useless, would this diminish its value?

who determines what value exists?

who determines when value is extinguished?

who is the arbiter of how much and for how long value exists?

is value universal?

is what has value for you now, what you valued when you were an infant?  a toddler?  a student?  a parent/teacher?

what is value?

 

 

 

I find the word usefulness may be substituted for the word value and vice versa in my previous statement... to interesting effect.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by silent thunder
added the quote, since the reply was on a separate page

[Stosh]

Effort, a cost , is often used to establish value, therefore a thing which is useful , and reduces cost , may be seen to reduce value,, and so the useful might be said to be useless.  

EX..

Back in the old days , it was hard and expensive , to get a good photo of a flying bird.

With the advent of digital cameras, its relatively easy to take a thousand shots at virtually no cost .. so the value of a good bird photo is pretty much nil. 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

That's a very interesting assertion. Is this unique to Daoism or can it be applied to others?

It is unique to daoism because it is limited both to land and to blood. However there are many other faiths which are bestowed at birth, and which actively repel the outsiders: judaism, zorastrianism, hinduism etc.

 

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Could we say that Buddhism exists in India only, or that Catholicism exists in Italy only, etc.?

Buddhism is extinct in india, but i know what you mean. Yes, buddhism is limited to south-eastern asia. Catholicism is a different story:  it is a "missionary" religion.

 

World religions, as a category in the study of religion, could be further disaggregated into missionary religions and non-missionary religions. According to this classification Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are usually identified as missionary religions, and the rest as non-missionary religions.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-90-481-8993-9_10

 

 

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

How are you defining Daoism in this regard?

Daoism is an ethnic chinese religion

 

 

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Are you referring specifically to the religious aspect, or the internal arts, or something else?

Yes daoism is an ethnic religion. Internal arts are ethnic culture.

 

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Also, what do you mean by "China?" I know that question sounds idiotic, but a great many Chinese people have migrated out of Asia, and they have taken their language and culture with them, including Daoism. Do you mean the country of China, or the Chinese people, etc?

It is a very reasonable question. Yes, there are enclaves of native chinese which are, ethnically, parts of China.

[Alchemical Walrus]

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

That's a very interesting assertion. Is this unique to Daoism or can it be applied to others? Could we say that Buddhism exists in India only, or that Catholicism exists in Italy only, etc.? How are you defining Daoism in this regard? Are you referring specifically to the religious aspect, or the internal arts, or something else?

 

I find your comment intriguing and think this deserves deeper explanation.

 

[edit] Also, what do you mean by "China?" I know that question sounds idiotic, but a great many Chinese people have migrated out of Asia, and they have taken their language and culture with them, including Daoism. Do you mean the country of China, or the Chinese people, etc?

Well I believe it's in the Daodejing, right?? "The Dao that's not Chinese is not the Eternal Dao" or something like that??  

[Lost in Translation]

Just now, Alchemical Walrus said:

Well I believe it's in the Daodejing, right?? "The Dao that's not Chinese is not the Eternal Dao" or something like that??

 

The Chinese may think Dao is Chinese, but Dao might disagree. Knowledge, once released into the world, has a difficult time being contained.  

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Stosh said:

 

 

 

.. nope Nah, Im not continuing with this .

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sorry Tt , I dont understand this. 

[Taoist Texts]

thats what we wish to all good folk today

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Day

 

[Rara]

15 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

The Chinese may think Dao is Chinese, but Dao might disagree. Knowledge, once released into the world, has a difficult time being contained.  

 

Here lies the beautiful paradox. The philosophy and practices of the Way of Nature.

 

Did no other cultures have similar answers?

 

But before I go off on a tangent, I'll say instead that, in short, the classic texts and generally the practices of Taoists appear to work best. Lineage and learning something of some tradition is important, ensuring you're getting it from a good source.

 

Back to certificates - they may help, but I'd rather go to someone with universal cred. They probably do have certificates anyway, but they're usually the last thing you'll see.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Rara
It's "n" not "m"!!

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

Here lies the beautiful paradox. The philosophy and practices of the Way of Nature.

 

Did no other cultures have similar amswers?

 

But before I go off on a tangent, I'll say instead that, in short, the classic texts and generally the practices of Taoists appear to work best. Lineage and learning something of some tradition is important, ensuring you're getting it from a good source.

 

Back to certificates - they may help, but I'd rather go to someone with universal cred. They probably do have certificates anyway, but they're usually the last thing you'll see.

I think we all do , ,, but they did a really nice job of packaging and promo

[wandelaar]

2 minutes ago, Rara said:

Here lies the beautiful paradox. The philosophy and practices of the Way of Nature.

 

Did no other cultures have similar amswers?

 

There are some similarities to Epicureanism, Stoicism, the early Cynics and Skeptics, Heraclitus and probably some others to.

[Starjumper]

19 minutes ago, Stosh said:

 

22 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sorry Tt , I dont understand this. 

 

 

Today is the fourth.

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

 

Today is the fourth.

Oh. ThanksI lose track  , 

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Rara said:

I wish I knew how to multi-quote.

 

Hmm, and I thought I was computer illiterate.  Highlight some text and then you see a little box that says "quote this",  so you give it the finger and it will be quoted in a new post for you.  You can repeat this as many times as you like from one or more posts to your new post.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Starjumper

[Taoist Texts]

45 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

The Chinese may think Dao is Chinese, but Dao might disagree. Knowledge, once released into the world, has a difficult time being contained.  

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

The word Jen means humanity. The Tao is for humanity there is no division of the many faces of humanity or geographical location of humanity or specific of genders of humanity. The Tao is not a subdivision that separates humanity.

 

I know for 2500 years the west has broken away from the polar complete world view and introduced many harmful things against humanity that is why it is hard to understand with western programming of mind  the depth of what is given to make this world a better place. The realty of no division.

 

In our bones we know the true value. 

[silent thunder]

An old man, shouts truths from a corner on a busy street.

 

Who will pay for such?

 

One who whispers truth to a friend, giggling and free at heart, away under a tree in the park... looks up to see a small crowd gathered, straining to hear the secret being shared such...

 

Who pays what for what?

 

where is value?

where is usefulness?

 

who determines what is what?

[Rara]

Michael's answer...

 

 

[Walker]

Anybody who tells you that the principles and methods of cultivating the Dao are only transmitted from Han Chinese to Han Chinese is deceiving you.

 

That is not the rule now, nor was it the rule before.

 

For instance, in the 1600s an Indian Buddhist emigre known to history as "the Chicken Foot Daoist" (鷄足道者/Jizu Daozhe--"Chicken Foot" is the name of the mountain in Yunnan where he settled) entered the Dragon Gate school, receiving teachings from such luminaries in Dragon Gate history as Wang Changyue (王常月) and Min Yide (閔一得).

 

As for what is the case today... let's just say that Chen Yingning's words did not prove prophetic. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Walker