Alláh-u-Abhá!!

[Alchemical Walrus]

Alláh-u-Abhá!! (or "Hello", but I didn't want to use the same word for greeting as everyone else  )

I'm a member of the Bahá'í Faith with a background in Daoism, and who still possesses enduring love for Daoism and the Daoist writings. Currently I am engaged in a study of neidan and comparing and contrasting it to the alchemical traditions of the Hermetic, Christian, Muslim, and Bahá'í religions. I'm making a profile here as a part of that study, although I'm also interested of course in discussing the other aspects of Daoism. 

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Alchemical Walrus, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Allah-u-Abha, Alchemical Walrus,

 

The Baha'i faith is interesting to me, though I don't know much about it except the basic stuff.  I'm really interested to see your comparison of that and other aspects of Daoism, and Neidan.  Seems like you'll have a great amount of information to share. Welcome friend.

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[Marblehead]

Hi Walrus.  Welcome.

 

I'll be here to talk about Daoism with you whenever you are ready.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi Alchemical Walrus

 

Your research sounds rather interesting to me, as I am a student of both Hermetism and Daoism myself (I look at them as equivalents in many ways), with a special interest in Alchemy - and comparative studies.

 

I hope that you are actually going to post some of your insights, so we can compare notes!

 

Talk later

Michael

 

[Alchemical Walrus]

8 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Hi Alchemical Walrus

 

Your research sounds rather interesting to me, as I am a student of both Hermetism and Daoism myself (I look at them as equivalents in many ways), with a special interest in Alchemy - and comparative studies.

 

I hope that you are actually going to post some of your insights, so we can compare notes!

 

Talk later

Michael

 

Ooo, it's great to learn there's someone with similar studies here!!

I wonder, have you noticed the same sort of similarities between Daoist and Hermetic teachings that I have?? It almost seems like the tradition of alchemy and similar ideas spread along the Silk Road and became infused in all the religions that that trade route touched.

[Hannes]

Welcome

I must say that I only know about the Bahá'í faith because of this big temple here in my village.

Please feel free to post some of your study work here. I love to learn.

[Daemon]

Hello @Alchemical Walrus,

 

What I've never understood about your faith is the apparent contradiction between "teaching the essential worth of all religions, and the unity and equality of all people" and Bahá'u'lláh's assertion that some people (particularly himself) are special envoys of God.

Perhaps you could explain this apparent contradiction?

 

☮️

[thelerner]

I always enjoy visiting the grand Bahai temple in Wilmette, beautiful gardens, nice people, sacred space.  From my limited understanding the Bahai'ism is extremely inclusive.  I think they're into God sends/touches teachers/prophets of many traditions and ethnicities to help mankind along the way.. giving reminders of ethical behavior while usually being misunderstood and poorly treated. 

 

For a beautiful walk and a little religious insight I'd recommend it to anyone in the Chicagoland area. 

 

pics  https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x880fdab8c6e3986f:0xe5587e514916bd5e!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipPX3jf8J-978Ld40F4w68Dd2Njbk4DKd5DJPrnj%3Dw239-h160-k-no!5sbahai+temple+wilmette+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipPX3jf8J-978Ld40F4w68Dd2Njbk4DKd5DJPrnj&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx5Mydp-zaAhXF5oMKHXeyBJIQoioIvwEwEA

[Alchemical Walrus]

2 hours ago, Daemon said:

Hello @Alchemical Walrus,

 

What I've never understood about your faith is the apparent contradiction between "teaching the essential worth of all religions, and the unity and equality of all people" and Bahá'u'lláh's assertion that some people (particularly himself) are special envoys of God.

Perhaps you could explain this apparent contradiction?

 

☮️

Sure if you want.

The wikipedia statement you have there is essentially two different claims, so I'll take them one at a time: "essential worth of all religions", "unity and equality of all people"

First, I don't see how the "essential worth of all religions" would inherently contradict the "envoys of God" idea so I assume you are mostly talking about the latter idea. If I am missing something in how you think those two things contradict, please point out what contradiction you see there.

For "unity and equality of all people", this idea does not contradict for the following reasons: It is not talking about equity, but equality. It's not a statement that everyone is the same, but that everyone is granted equal potential.  Unity is likewise a "Unity in Diversity", not a statement that everyone is the identical, but that everything is united nonetheless. The Bahá'í writings are clear that anyone has the potential to attain such a status as an "envoy" and have that kind of relationship with God, and one of Bahá'u'lláh's books, the Seven Valleys, is even an step-by-step explanation on how anyone can attain that state, in a process comparable to "recovering emptiness" in a Daoist sense.

The short version is that it'd only be a contradiction if it included the assertion that it was impossible for anyone to do the same.

[Alchemical Walrus]

On 5/3/2018 at 8:27 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

I hope that you are actually going to post some of your insights, so we can compare notes!

 

2 hours ago, Hannes said:

Please feel free to post some of your study work here. I love to learn.

 

Most recent thing I've read of interest to a Daoist board would probably be this, from Institutiones Divinae by Lactantius, writing on the subject of Hermes Trismegastus, reading this: "Lest anyone should seek His name, he [Hermes] says that He is 'without a name,' since He does not need the proper signification of a name because of His very unity." which immediately reminds me of: "The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao; The name that can be named is not the eternal name."

It's interesting to see very Daoist ideas popping up in Hermetic writings.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Alchemical Walrus

[Daemon]

Thanks!

 

Is The Seven Valleys freely available as an ebook anywhere (preferably in an ereader-friendly format such as .mobi or .epub rather than .pdf)?

 

☮️

Edited May 4, 2018 by Daemon

[Alchemical Walrus]

5 minutes ago, Daemon said:

Thanks!

 

Is The Seven Valleys freely available as an ebook anywhere (preferably in an ereader-friendly format such as .mobi or .epub rather than .pdf)?

 

☮️

Looks like this is a good link: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/16986

As a word of caution, as many prints of Seven Valleys do, the print I linked also includes the Four Valleys, which is a separate book about another spiritual process using four metaphorical "valleys" rather than seven. I've always thought it was a bit odd and confusing that publishers have often stuck two incredibly similar books together almost never providing the context, so just keep in mind that this ebook version I have linked is in fact two different books put together.

I don't know why the publishers do this.  

[silent thunder]

Alchemical Walrus... Coo Coo CaChoo!

 

Welcome to the Bums mate.  The Hermetics and Daoists still sing songs of deep resilience, abiding vitality and great challenge.  I dearly appreciate them all. 

[Daemon]

Those are both very interesting books @Alchemical Walrus, I'm glad that they were both included in the text that you recommended.

Would you consider me incorrect in seeing the Bahá'í as being Sufis?

 

☮️

[Michael Sternbach]

On 4.5.2018 at 12:04 AM, Alchemical Walrus said:

Ooo, it's great to learn there's someone with similar studies here!!

 

 

On 4.5.2018 at 12:04 AM, Alchemical Walrus said:

I wonder, have you noticed the same sort of similarities between Daoist and Hermetic teachings that I have?? It almost seems like the tradition of alchemy and similar ideas spread along the Silk Road and became infused in all the religions that that trade route touched.

 

Yes, indeed. Not just the elixir and its action, but also the way to obtain it (paralleling natural processes said to happen in the earth's interior) are described in rather similar ways in both Hermetic and Daoist Alchemy. A dissemination of Alchemical knowledge along the Silk Road seems likely and was not least suggested by the great scholar of Chinese  science history Joseph Needham.

 

To those who wish an introduction to Chinese Alchemy, I recommend reading this treatise:

 

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~nsivin/from_ccat//alch.html

 

Numerous similarities to Hermetic Alchemy will be evident to anybody  who has some familiarity with the latter. Although there are certain differences too.

[Alchemical Walrus]

6 hours ago, Daemon said:

Those are both very interesting books @Alchemical Walrus, I'm glad that they were both included in the text that you recommended.

Would you consider me incorrect in seeing the Bahá'í as being Sufis?

 

☮️

I have three answers for the question of whether the Bahá'í can be considered Sufis:

First a "yes", as many of our Scriptures draw from Sufi traditions. The Seven Valleys itself is a commentary on the Sufi Attar's work The Conference of the Birds. And so in that sense, my "scholarly side" says we could be considered Sufis.

Then a "no". The Sufi definition of what makes a Sufi and a Sufi order is based on knowledge imparted from teacher-to-student in a teacher-student relationship chain from the Prophet Muhammad down to the individual Sufi. According to Sufi teachings, every Sufi trained in Sufism has learned from a teacher who learned from another teacher who learned from another (etc.) eventually with the knowledge originating from Muhammad. The Bahá'í Prophets, the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh, were never formally trained in a Sufi order, their knowledge on Sufi-esque subjects arose spontaneously. And thus, my "technical side" says we cannot technically be Sufis because of the typical definition of a "Sufi" limits it the word to only those trained in a specific chain of teaching.

Then a "yes" again, as one of the parts of Bahá'í doctrine is that there is only One Religion, and that everyone, no matter how varied their beliefs, is a part of that One Religion (including the atheists). In this sense my "mystical side" says yes, we could be considered "Sufi" or a part of any other religious group for that matter, as the "reality" is a unity.

I apologize that I didn't really have a simple answer for an seemingly simple question.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Alchemical Walrus

[Daemon]

Thank you!

(Although, I'm puzzled about the apology for taking the time to provide a fascinating and comprehensive reply to my question.)

 

☮️