What happens to suicides

[Tryingtodobetter]

Is it a matter of belief?

 

What happens 

[Marblehead]

Yes, it's just a matter of beliefs.

 

They just die like everyone else will one day.

 

However, from my reading of the Chuang Tzu I will suggest that he was opposed to the act of suicide.

 

[Stosh]

 

5 hours ago, Tryingtodobetter said:

Is it a matter of belief?

 

What happens 

No , what happens, is not a matter of belief , it is a matter of belief , what will happen. 

[thursday]

No, personally I don't think it's a matter of belief, but does it matter what we write? Life is hard, for some harder than others. A wise teacher once wrote: make good use of who you are and what you have.

[Starjumper]

Edited May 27, 2018 by Starjumper

[Stosh]

I was told we were going to all have flying cars by now. 

[Kar3n]

It is unclear what happens. Some people, traditions and religions say you're stuck in a sort of purgatory,  some say you go to hell

 

What does happen is those who are left in the wake of a suicide are hurt, badly. 

 

If you are or know someone contemplating suicide, there is help available.

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

http://www.supportline.org.uk/problems/suicide.php

[phil]

http://www.afterlifedata.com/life-after-death-topics-70-2-Particular-case-of-suicide.html

may be helpful

[Lost in Translation]

If there is no afterlife then nothing.

 

But if there is an afterlife then ask yourself: Why are you here? The answer to that seems self evident. You are here to learn. Learn what? I don't know. But if you are here to learn and you suicide, well, that's like dropping out of school, is it not?

 

And what happens when you drop out of school? If you are lucky then you get a chance to go to another school, a different school - filled with similar students who are also struggling. If you are unlucky then you are thrown on the street with no education and told to fend for yourself.

 

Tread lightly. Choice and consequence, the rule of karma, is a serious matter.

[Daemon]

While that may seem to be obvious, there are other possibilities. For example, the purpose of life may be simply to enjoy life.

If that is the case, perhaps it is wise to address any impediment(s)?

 

☮️

[Aetherous]

I would hope that only good happens to them, because life was hard enough. But hope doesn't always match reality.

[moment]

I would suspect that people who have widely searched, for the meditation that works well for them, have a much lower rate of suicide than the general population. Also, the instincts acquired from effective meditation greatly lessens worries about what-ifs.

Edited May 9, 2018 by moment

[Starjumper]

9 hours ago, Stosh said:

I was told we were going to all have flying cars by now. 

 

Ya, but whoever said that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, Sadhguru does know his ass from a hole in the ground.

[Stosh]

13 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Ya, but whoever said that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, Sadhguru does know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Well, I don't actually know if he ever tried to plant a tree there.

But, 

Predictions are often not reliable , and one needs to keep that in mind esp. as relates to 'after death' events. 

and , I'm not so sure the abundance of facts nowadays, is going to cut the population in half,....

but understand the point he is driving at.

That life without a spiritual component may not offer sufficient reason , in and of itself, to support itself, on cold fact alone. 

I have found  his discussions interesting before , but , his thing is 'a whole nother can of worms'. 

He continued , that it was fear of ones mortality , which would naturally bestow a sense of enthusiasm to ones life,,which might or might not be 'the ticket' or the only 'ticket'. 

 

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Stosh said:

I was told we were going to all have flying cars by now. 

 

All of us ?   Nah ..... only the rich and the 'extremely in debt'  . 

 

[Stosh]

As far as I can read in, to me, Lao and Chuang were suggesting that one could be well invested in ones life, simply by playing the cards dealt to them . Finding the point of balance where needs were met, fitting in with others happened , and attending the ride. 

We either expect too much or too little, and think some mental contortion , magical threshold , or act of will is going to CHANGE everything for us. 

That suddenly the Goldenrod flowers will smell suddenly sweet. 

This idea can pervade for a lifetime , even when examined at length while we 'miss the starting gun.'

The other difference to the suggestion of Sadhguru, is they felt that lifting the moment by moment burden of ones fears of failure and death ,one became freed.

Who really wants to have death always on their mind? The weight that each moment needs to be some kind of momentous joy or they are failing.They said that humble roles ,moderate goals, warm relationships and playing through life , were what made it richest. 

As I read Chuang on the happiness of fishes, he is just goofing with his friend strolling around by the river. He isnt making a logical error.

[Stosh]

On the other hand, though its not as much true for all, the modern world brings us squarely in touch with so much and so many.. everything and everyone. 

We hardly know most of those we talk with, get embroiled in dramas we play no part in, depend on interpreters of facts and stories we cannot touch nor hear.. We do not know all the rules we are expected to abide by and have no trusted guides for most of it. 

I expect they were already sensing these societal pressures a long time ago. 

Traded for civilizations advancements our lives content has changed. 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Stosh

[Starjumper]

Edited May 27, 2018 by Starjumper

[Fa Xin]

14 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I copied this link last night in order to post it on Dao Bums but couldn't decide on where to post it so I didn't.  I guess it was a premonition of this thread.

 

 

I don’t follow his videos ... but I really appreciate how he’s down to earth and straight forward. Listening to him talk is like having a conversation with a (very wise) friend. 

[Stosh]

Yeah, I agree about different strokes... 

Sadhguru , said he knows the minds of others  because he knows his own... it puts him in a confident situation but at the same time the inferences one might make can potentially be way off mark for others. 

Chuang also used inference though.. as we may all tend to do.. but there is the chance for twists to the motivations. 

I always presume that the persons desire is for things to work out better somehow, than to leave things as they are. .. essentially a proactive measure despite appearing self destructive to everyone else. 

[Stosh]

31 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

I don’t follow his videos ... but I really appreciate how he’s down to earth and straight forward. Listening to him talk is like having a conversation with a (very wise) friend. 

I dont know anyone like that personally, and probably couldn't sustain it ,if I did. 

[Orion]

Like any ghost, it depends on the person. I imagine that someone who killed themselves in order to escape tyranny, torture or political injustice would perhaps have done so with greater resolve, knowing that the alternative was bleak. Compare that to someone who kills themselves in a moment of haste because of an intense emotional situation.

 

Just because you die doesn't mean you suddenly become enlightened. Dead people are just as messed up as when they were alive, if not more so. That's why it's important to try and deal with your issues and imbalances while you're alive. Death itself can be traumatic but I think if you die at a point where you've made peace with your life, it's less likely to mess you up. Of course, not everyone is so lucky when it comes to the circumstances of their death.

 

That said... all deads reside in the Earth plane. The only difference is whether or not they're at peace. The ones not at peace never fully dissolve and so they become errant spirits. I think that's the "purgatory" that various wisdom traditions refer to. It's not an alternate dimension it's just a place of unrest. The Earth is always going to accept them into stillness and silence, but if they are messed up or unresolved then they won't be able to rest.

 

The part of us that is Divine always moves on and returns to the Source, regardless. The part of us that is doing the immortal work doesn't get stuck, it just learns lessons and proceeds through the ages. It's the human body and its corporeal soul that has to deal with any stuckness.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Orion

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Orion said:

Just because you die doesn't mean you suddenly become enlightened. 

True.  It means you have become de-lighted.

 No little light gonna' shine any more.

 

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

True.  It means you have become de-lighted.

 No little light gonna' shine any more.

 

Eh, maybe that's true for some.

[Lost in Translation]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

I imagine that someone who killed themselves in order to escape tyranny, torture or political injustice would perhaps have done so with greater resolve, knowing that the alternative was bleak. Compare that to someone who kills themselves in a moment of haste because of an intense emotional situation.

 

This is a good point and possibly worthy of its own thread. The reasons behind suicide matter. If you sacrifice yourself in what you feel to be a good cause vs if you slaughter yourself to avoid personal pain. The end result is the same but the energetic patterns are vastly different.