Lost in Translation Posted May 11, 2018 The entirety of our knowledge comes in through our perceptions. The perception of a thing is not the thing itself. Can we know the truth? Is there a truth to be known? How would we know? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KuroShiro Posted May 11, 2018 We can't handle the ... nevermind 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted May 11, 2018 That which exists is true undeniably whether we know about it or not , right? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted May 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Stosh said: That which exists is true undeniably whether we know about it or not , right? I have no idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted May 11, 2018 It sets the parameters for answering your questions, without deciding, the excercise isnt even presented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted May 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Lost in Translation said: Can we know the truth? Only if our mirror is perfectly clean and unblemished. I'm not saying I'm there; I'm just saying. Even our brain has limits as to how much it can process. I suppose Lao Tzu knew this and is why he said that we should discard knowledge. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Small Fur Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) On May 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Lost in Translation said: The entirety of our knowledge comes in through our perceptions. The perception of a thing is not the thing itself. Can we know the truth? Is there a truth to be known? How would we know? Yes, there is a truth to be known. But it is not singular, or an object, or even necessarily a movement. And one can purely and consciously experience it. The most simple way I can explain it is that you know truth by being truth. This happens when your system is purified, particularly of conditions that obscure the Yuan Shen- this being usually more ‘spirit’ related energetic patterns and states, and not necessarily as much physiologically mundane states (though one’s purified physiology can greatly help to support the process). The reason why you think perception is the main intermediary obstacle to truth is because you have not yet experienced from a grounded state of no-mind. When one’s conscious orientation is rooted in purity, the subtle vessel of the corporeal system becomes empty and this allows for direct, unobscured transmission and witness. “How would we know?” Because now you are the same as knowing, not apart from it- as in, you are unified with what is. Edited May 21, 2018 by Small Fur 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted May 21, 2018 non-dual truth is not found by or with a dualistic tool.... It is.... and memory/time can not hold 'that' like it holds regular and also great knowledge. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted May 21, 2018 On 11-5-2018 at 2:03 AM, Lost in Translation said: The entirety of our knowledge comes in through our perceptions. The perception of a thing is not the thing itself. Can we know the truth? Is there a truth to be known? How would we know? That's a big question. I think the first statement is incorrect. Pure uninterpreted perception would be inexpressible. Probably even a newborn baby has some instinctual ways of interpreting perceptions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) thus to me the op question really boils down to "can we BE the Truth", and the answer is yes - meaning that instead of holding the truth as mental knowledge of it or as a thing that can be gained or lost, it is our true or the true indestructible nature of spirit. Edited May 22, 2018 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) Bump! I was on the verge or creating a new topic "How can we know truth?" when I remembered that I had created this topic "Can we know truth?" many moons ago. So instead of creating a new topic, I'll simply bump this one. OP, part two: "How can we know the truth?" This deceptively simple question has been on my mind of late. I call it simple because there are many possible answers. One could quote scripture. One could posit philosophy. One could present a scientific, mathematical, or logical proof. One can plumb the depths of awareness in a myriad manners of meditation. One can mindfully observe. Each response could be shown as valid or as invalid. Ultimately it seems there is no way to definitely prove that something is true. There always seems to be a tinge of doubt, the kernel of uncertainty, so I ask: How can we know the truth? Edited September 23, 2018 by Lost in Translation Grammar and spelling 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 Depends on how thoroughly we wish to view something that determines whether or not we are going to find any truth. I like to think that there is no ultimate truth. Leaves more room for flexibility. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted September 23, 2018 "the truth waits for the insight of eyes unclouded by longing" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sudhamma Posted September 23, 2018 The Buddhist Teachings is capable of being entered into, tested, and the person is welcome to come and experience it to know its truths and the Truth. The Pali word is 'Ehipassiko". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) For those making statements about what it is, is not or how to do it. Are they from experience for example Quote The most simple way I can explain it is that you know truth by being truth. is this said from one who is now the truth.... if so how would this be demonstrated so that others would know its so... On the other hand if one understands what is a subjective and objective truth, this can be demonstrated Edited September 23, 2018 by windwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted September 23, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 10:57 PM, Small Fur said: “How would we know?” Because now you are the same as knowing, not apart from it- as in, you are unified with what is. I truly appreciate this answer. It resonates with me deeply. Unfortunately this turns "truth" into an indefinable quality such as "enlightenment" and thus nullifies it as an absolute reality. This might simply be how it is. I don't know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sudhamma said: The Buddhist Teachings is capable of being entered into, tested, and the person is welcome to come and experience it to know its truths and the Truth. The Pali word is 'Ehipassiko". Nice...also seen and tested in CMA traditions in a very direct way.... "Paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhi (Sanskrit: Pratyātmaṃ veditavyo vijñaiḥ "To be meant to perceive directly"). The Dhamma can be perfectly realized only by the noble disciples (Pali: ariya-puggala) who have matured in supreme wisdom. No one can "enlighten" another person. Each intelligent person has to attain and experience for themselves. As an analogy, no one can simply make another know how to swim. Each person individually has to learn how to swim. In the same way, dhamma cannot be transferred or bestowed upon someone. Each one has to know for themselves. Knowing these attributes, Buddhists believe that they will attain the greatest peace and happiness through the practice of the Dhamma. Therefore, each person is fully responsible for his or her self to put it into practice for real." I do not call myself a buddhist, taoist, or anything maybe a seeker might be close enough What I have found seems to follow and echo what I've read about in different teachings.... In my own work in CMA, I've traveled far and wide once stopping for some 10ys of time working something that while experienced I had no inner truth to make it my truth.. It took some 10ys of hard training enduring a lot of "suffering' to make it mine, while I may not be able to explain it I know it... it is true... Edited September 23, 2018 by windwalker 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) T H E O S O P H Y "But Truth itself exists and is ONE. There is only THE Truth, not “my Truth,” “your Truth,” “his Truth,” or “her Truth.” The most ancient scripture known to man is the Rig Veda of Hinduism, which famously declares that “Truth is One, though the Sages call it by many names .”https://blavatskytheosophy.com/my-truth-your-truth-or-the-truth/ An interesting take on "my truth is not your truth" Edited September 23, 2018 by windwalker 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dosa Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) Laozi said we could gain it through “non-action". The equation is simple: stay healthy and strong and Just relax. Edited September 23, 2018 by dosa 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted September 23, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 4:03 AM, Lost in Translation said: The perception of a thing is not the thing itself. why not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Lost in Translation said: Ultimately it seems there is no way to definitely prove that something is true. There always seems to be a tinge of doubt, the kernel of uncertainty, so I ask: How can we know the truth? You have found the answer already! The ancient sceptics knew as much, and they also found a way to live on the basis of not knowing the (ultimate) truth. I suggest you read about Hellenistic scepticism and their proposed way of life. Problem is: most people don't like to live in doubt! So dogma's are promulgated and defended by those reckoning themselves as belonging to the select few who know. But how to know which cult (if any) is right? Just become like them they say, and then you will see. But how can the different cults (with their contradicting opinions) all be so damn sure of themselves? They cannot all of them be right, so which one to choose and/or believe? And so the search goes on, and on, ... Lao tzu and Chuang tzu knew that there is no end to such a search, and one should by happy with the little practical knowledge one needs for simply living ones life. Personally I only follow half of that recommendation, that is I don't think we can be absolutely sure about anything (and not even that). And that search has stopped. But I keep on reading, learning and thinking. I am still too much of a philosopher to stop with that... Edited September 23, 2018 by wandelaar 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 9 hours ago, windwalker said: On the other hand if one understands what is a subjective and objective truth, this can be demonstrated Exactly. And subjective truth can sometimes be objective truth as long as we don't add or take away anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MopaiWarlord Posted September 23, 2018 Truth can be beyond "We". Personal truth is never the ultimate truth. Seeking Ultimate Truth, all means are not enough, only secret method works. Nobody knows this method. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted September 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, MopaiWarlord said: Truth can be beyond "We". Personal truth is never the ultimate truth. Seeking Ultimate Truth, all means are not enough, only secret method works. Nobody knows this method. How do you know that? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dosa Posted September 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, MopaiWarlord said: Truth can be beyond "We". Personal truth is never the ultimate truth. Seeking Ultimate Truth, all means are not enough, only secret method works. Nobody knows this method. 一切衆生 皆有佛性 All living beings have Buddhahood No need to shake in your boots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
