Can We Know Truth?

[voidisyinyang]

Publishers Marketplace: Dealmaker: Yale University Press (Imprint ...

https://www.publishersmarketplace.com/dealmakers/detail.cgi?id=2620...cat...

Mathematician and author of FLUKE Joe Mazur's ZENO'S QUIVER: The Story of Time and Its Effects on Our Lives, a cross-disciplinary exploration of time, ...

[wandelaar]

Not learning are you? Just repeating the same mistakes I mentioned.

 

It's simple enough: the complex numbers are commutative and no non-commutative mathematics, logic or music theory is needed to fully understand them. But I don't want to spoil the topic of LiT, so I will leave it at that.

[Lost in Translation]

23 hours ago, Nungali said:

Sometimes I get fooled;  I thought I knew something was true, and it wasn't.  But I get fooled much less often, by the reverse ; knowing the lie.

 

Some people are  soooo bad at lying, and they think they are getting away with it  ....

 

... unless they dont realise they are lying           ... can it become that 'habitual' ?

 

What? Wait! Did I miss something here? Who are these 'some people' who don't realize that are lying? Are you poking fun at little old nuns 'cause of their 'habit?'

[Stosh]

On 9/23/2018 at 3:58 PM, Nungali said:

Sometimes I get fooled;  I thought I knew something was true, and it wasn't.  But I get fooled much less often, by the reverse ; knowing the lie.

 

Some people are  soooo bad at lying, and they think they are getting away with it  ....

 

... unless they dont realise they are lying           ... can it become that 'habitual' ?

Yes , I think it does , but the mechanism is more complicated perhaps than just being habit. I could add more but you may already have such scenarios... and so I am just confirming the sentiment. 

 

  

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Stosh

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

What? Wait! Did I miss something here? Who are these 'some people' who don't realize that are lying? Are you poking fun at little old nuns 'cause of their 'habit?'

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisters_of_Perpetual_Indulgence

 

 

 

 

 

[Lost in Translation]

I won't respond here. See my other comment (I won't say which one).

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lost in Translation

[Lost in Translation]

What if vegetarian nuns worked at 'Hamburger Habit' and read 'Lord of the Rings' during their lunch breaks. Would they be 'Habit clad Hobbit reading Hamburger Habits?' (don't answer this).

 

@NOONE I really need your help here!

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lost in Translation

[voidisyinyang]

3 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Not learning are you? Just repeating the same mistakes I mentioned.

 

It's simple enough: the complex numbers are commutative and no non-commutative mathematics, logic or music theory is needed to fully understand them. But I don't want to spoil the topic of LiT, so I will leave it at that.

yes you like to claim complex numbers are commutative. That's nice. But I'm talking about noncommutative phase logic.

OK if you read my research from 2007 and before - I referred to noncommutative phase logic as "complementary opposite ratios." So this is a Daoist website - the Taiji is NOT commutative. I've already pointed that out. So yes the noncommutative phase logic is "converted" to symmetric commutators using the Poisson Bracket, as math professor Ian Stewart points out in his "Why Beauty is Truth" book - "a history of symmetry."

 

So yes Western logic is based on symmetry. I  understand that. But the "measurement problem" of quantum logic arises from "time-frequency uncertainty" which itself arises from noncommutative phase. So math professor Louis Kauffman is stating that complex numbers actually originate from noncommutative phase logic due to time being the original "parameter" that is also the measurement of time - it is both time plus observation of time as logic.

 

So yeah the implications of nonlocality in quantum physics are quite radical - and have yet to be acknowledged even by most quantum physicists, as Professor Basil J. Hiley emphasizes.

 

You can be in DeNile - that's fine - join the club - so is most of Western science. haha.

 

So the concept does not depend on the semantics - you claim I am hiding behind advanced science. No, as I said, I was calling this concept "complementary opposite ratios." I read Connes back around 2003 or so, "Triangle of Thoughts" - so I was familiar with noncommutative phase logic. But it was not until I saw his music lecture online that the logic was really made specific to the same claim that I was making.

 

So I had discovered noncommutative phase logic from studying music theory - only I called it "complementary opposite ratios." You can read my writings from 2003 onwards - I have several articles and even books published on this - all free online.

OK consider Dr. Claude Swanson - he is another physics professor who has made this same discovery - the secret truth of Qi energy-information is what he calls "torsion fields" - this is from Russian or Soviet research stating that time is a real factor - not an outside parameter. So you have negentropic time as energy-information, from the future.

 

 

Quote

We study a noncommutative theory of gravity in the framework of torsional spacetime.

http://ecoechoinvasives.blogspot.com/2017/09/noncommutative-phase-are-torsion-fields.html

Torsion fields are actually noncommutative phase!

 

So there are quite a few scientists who have figured out this secret - the secret truth of reality.

 

Dr. Harold Atmanspacher is another one - noncommutative phase logic and consciousness.

 

http://synchronizeduniverse.com/

Claude Swanson's website.

 

NEW 3RD EDITION... “LIFE FORCE, THE SCIENTIFIC BASIS," THE LONG AWAITED VOLUME II OF THE SYNCHRONIZED UNIVERSE SERIES, IS NOW AVAILABLE!

 

IT IS THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE HANDBOOK ON TORSION, ANOTHER NAME FOR SUBTLE ENERGY: 720 PAGES, 1,500 REFERENCES, 450 FIGURES.

 

THIS ENERGY WAS STUDIED FOR OVER FORTY YEARS IN SECRET RUSSIAN PROGRAMS, AND WAS CENTRAL TO GERMAN RESEARCH BEFORE THAT. IT IS THE KEY TO ENERGY HEALING AND PARANORMAL PHENOMENA, AS WELL AS BREAKTHROUGHS IN PROPULSION AND ENERGY. 

 

 IT ESTABLISHES THE SCIENCE AND THE PHYSICS WHICH BACKS UP AND EXPLAINS MANY MYSTERIES, INCLUDING LONG DISTANCE HEALING, THE NATURE OF THE AURA, AND HOW SHAMANISM CREATES INSTANTANEOUS CHANGES, ESP AND PK.  IT EXPLAINS THE SCIENTIFIC NATURE OF "SUBTLE ENERGY," ALSO CALLED "CHI," PRANA, "ORGONE" AND TORSION. IT IS TRULY A NEW "FIFTH FORCE."

Edited September 24, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Lost in Translation]

4 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

What!?!?!

 

I can see how an entropy-increasing effect (such as evaporation or dying) can be said to "emit time", but how does stretching a rubber band or growing "absorb time?"

[voidisyinyang]

4 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

What!?!?!

 

I can see how an entropy-increasing effect (such as evaporation or dying) can be said to "emit time", but how does stretching a rubber band or growing "absorb time?"

http://journals.sfu.ca/seemj/index.php/seemj/article/download/425/386

pdf - explains the details - Claude Swanson article

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

What!?!?!

 

I can see how an entropy-increasing effect (such as evaporation or dying) can be said to "emit time", but how does stretching a rubber band or growing "absorb time?"

 

 

 

Your time is up  ,   buddy .

 

 

 

....  see   - all his time got used up .

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Nungali

[Everything]

The truth is that every truth is true.

Also even the "highest" truth is an ever evolving thing. So there's no hurry or rush to get things done.

Also you can enjoy many truth's in your life, just as you can have many questions in life.

Looking for the truth and experiencing the truth as an expanding thing, are two different experiences.

When you ask, you often try to reach beyond your truth and thereby you may find a better truth, but that truth can only be found if it is already there in your life.

Thus, if you wanna find a better truth, just keep looking at the truth's of your life and choose the best or all perspectives you are able to see. Then, this allows you to move in harmony with your best truth, and this then expands into a better truth. It is like contentment.

You position your energy in harmony with the best of the reality around you as you practice contentment and thus you flow easily trough your experience and in doing so improve your ability to receive ongoingly higher and better truth's opening pathways to newer and better truth's effortlessly. 

[Lost in Translation]

6 hours ago, Everything said:

The truth is that every truth is true.

 

I don't agree. To say "every truth is true" is to negate truth. One might as well say that every truth is false. In fact, I find that much easier to accept.

[AugustGreig]

Let me talk about the story of Jesus Christ, obviously from a more objective or esoteric, not religious perspective.

 

Jesus was the Truth, the Logos, The Word. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." You could translate this to "mystery within mystery" or "being and non-being". The Word is Tao. The Word is the Truth. There is only one truth. It is why all men of God speak the same language. Chuang Tzu describes the fall of man exactly as Genesis does.

 

Second, Jesus said, "He who drinks from my mouth shall become as me, and I shall be he." This is the essence of following the path of returning to Tao, God, Source, emptiness; whatever you choose to call it. Caught up in being, you see only the manifestations. Yet being and non-being create and support each other. Like all opposites, they are the same thing. They both come from source. Mystery within mystery as the gate to Tao, but also Tao itself. Tao is truth. 

 

Also, Jesus had doubt. Doubt is normal. You are stripping away all material things, all conditioning and returning to the source of all consciousness, expressed as Christ's willing crucifixion and bearing of the cross, laboring for his own death. But it represents the death o the ego, you see?

 

We have all had moments of truth. Maybe playing a sport, video game or music, when you enter no-mind and are able to perform flawlessly, if only for a few minutes. Watch a pitcher in baseball throws perfect game. This requires basically two hours of being in that state. Other players don't even speak to him, because they understand he is in harmony with the Tao, he has become the truth of how to pitch a baseball game. I hope this makes sense.

[Zen Pig]

yes, Jesus had doubt, which in zen is the basis for wisdom.  "Only don't know"  as Seung Sahn use to say. From the ancient Greeks, came the question, "Can one ever know anything for sure"? This epistemology, or study of knowing became the foundation of modern scientific methodology.  Of course modern science, like modern religions are maintained by humans, and we humans need to feel in control and that we Know for sure.  hence the modern scientism, or belief in science, and modern religious zealots.  we can have an amazing Kensho or the seeing into the essence or seeing the "suchness of life",  which is a flash of knowing.  but that to, is a subjunctive experience,  and in my experience just the tip of the unknowable ice burg.   In the end, I ask myself, who would ever want to know everything? how boring would that be?  I see the universe as an infinite well of play.  

 

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I don't agree. To say "every truth is true" is to negate truth. One might as well say that every truth is false. In fact, I find that much easier to accept.

In science, most truths are just things we have failed to falsify. 

[Everything]

1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I don't agree. To say "every truth is true" is to negate truth. One might as well say that every truth is false. In fact, I find that much easier to accept.

Ofcourse it is easier to accept, but it's just the flipside of the same coin. You can say existance is meaningless, but thereby it means anything you want it to mean. So any definition you give it, you experience that. So there is great value in the meaninglessness of existance. So now you're free to experience any meaning you wish. So you choose the meaning you want to experience. You give life the meaning you want it to have, and then you get the meaning out of life you want.

 

But to come to that point, you first have, as you're already doing, come to terms with life. Accept it just the way it is. That means also accepting your truth. Even if that truth is not the truth you want. You cannot change it, untill you own it. You cannot change what you do not own. So you have to sort of own up to it. And at first it may sound scary, because you sort of wanna scream "NO! I DID NOT CREATE ALL OF THIS!" I would have done it differently! Fk this life! It's all a fking lie! And that is true. But, you created all thosel lies. You believed in all those lies. Those "truths" that are not your "truths" so in a sense, allot of people go through life living the truth of other people. Other people teach you to think in the way they want you to think, act in the way they want you to act, etc. And you gave up, you just went with it. Because you wanted to feel better. You wanted to be the good person. You didn't want to be cast out. So it's not necessarily that you're bad. Your worth is eternal. But if you can begin to realize, no matter how bad it feels, that you are responsible for everything in your experience, then you realize you create the truth. Because you realize, you are everything. And how you feel is the only thing that matters. Because you can never accept all of it, unless it feels absolute rapturously extatic to you to do so. And usually people just wait untill they die before they accept everything. But people can die aswell in this life, give up "ego" in the sense of letting go of all judgement. Meditating. And coming back to your center of power, of neutrality, in each now new reality. And from there, you can see, every truth you give it, life becomes it. But you can't do this with your mind alone. Because you have a heart, that if you meditate, becomes sensitive to DIRECTION of thought, and you will see how some directions of thought will cause you to become blind to your own ability to create your own truth. And then you realize, you have no control. And then you return again, that everything is a lie. To feel better, and let go of that negative momentum. But you can also, if you meditate, have no thought, and then feel around for a thought/ perspective or truth that feels good. Then that thought will attract other thoughts that are similar to it. And soon you will have a perspective of your life, your reality, just as it always has been, but a perspective of it, that you can now see the true meaning of all of it, and your true value as an individual, and your true purpose.

 

So as you already say, you don't want to DENIE your truth, or NEGATE truth, but fully own up to it, be honest, true to yourself, authentic. Allow your truth to be valueable as it is, accept it. And if you feel bad, know, it's just one truth. But now that you know what truth you are experiencing, and you know it feels bad, so then... You wanna feel better right? Your heart knows how to look at life in a way that feels better.

[Everything]

38 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

In science, most truths are just things we have failed to falsify. 

Science always wants to solve everything. That's why they created the nuclear bomb. They think that the solution to life, is death. And that is correct. But what you want to do, as a human being, is to allow life, to be perfect, as it is, an ever evolving thing. And enjoy your experience as a human. Because, the earth allows you to have this experience, and really, things aren't trying to kill you. Things aren't trying to deceive you. It is only that that happens, if you go against your own nature. You "try" to live instead of living. You "try" and keep "trying" even tho, there is no need for "trying" so you let go of trying and just do what needs to be done, when it needs to be done. Period. You don't need to gather all the sand of the desert and fling it into space and make a new planet, in gather 5 zillion rockets to guide it constantly in perfect orbit around the sun. That's not how life works. It's much easier than that. You can simply breath, and relax. And enjoy life. And be free. Who you really are is freedom. To be who you really are and always want to be. And that is a good thing, your full truth is always of highest service to everyone around you, even if you cannot see the service, existance can, otherwise, if you truely are unworthy of existance, you would not exist. So there's no need to falsify your own existance in a sense. Because you are eternally worthy.

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I don't agree. To say "every truth is true" is to negate truth. One might as well say that every truth is false. In fact, I find that much easier to accept.

Huh? While you're entitled to an opinion , on everything open to opinion , every truth being true- is true , logically speaking , -even if there is nothing else true. 

[Everything]

53 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

yes, Jesus had doubt, which in zen is the basis for wisdom.  "Only don't know"  as Seung Sahn use to say. From the ancient Greeks, came the question, "Can one ever know anything for sure"? This epistemology, or study of knowing became the foundation of modern scientific methodology.  Of course modern science, like modern religions are maintained by humans, and we humans need to feel in control and that we Know for sure.  hence the modern scientism, or belief in science, and modern religious zealots.  we can have an amazing Kensho or the seeing into the essence or seeing the "suchness of life",  which is a flash of knowing.  but that to, is a subjunctive experience,  and in my experience just the tip of the unknowable ice burg.   In the end, I ask myself, who would ever want to know everything? how boring would that be?  I see the universe as an infinite well of play.  

 

His doubt is what got him on the cross. Otherwise he would accept reality as it is, and allow it evolve naturally, just as he always knew it will. However, Jesus was not living in doubt all of the time. He had acces to infinite intelligence, most of the time. But people often like to remember him for the worst of his moments. The cross. Imagine if I would wear a small statue of you in an electric chair around my neck. You woulden't like it. No one would like it. And yet, people wear jesus on a cross, all the time. It's completely fked. And then Seung Sahn comes allong and he says "let go of all that you know, cause there's always a better truth. Trust me, let go every single moment of your life and allow the best of life to come you every single moment. So throw that cross away, and just live in the moment, and be like jesus, don't follow him, be like him. Allow yourself the acces to infinite intelligence, right here, and now, waiting for you, to stop thinking, and just allow it. And feel good in that. And slowly, those vibrations turn into thoughts, and those thoughts turn into visible things you can see. And then every single thing in your life will become God speaking to you. And you will see your life through the eyes of God." Simple as that.

[wandelaar]

38 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

In science, most truths are just things we have failed to falsify. 

 

Yes! And that's exactly what is so great about empirical science, it doesn't like empty proclamations (such as are found in many religions, new age thinking and crackpot theories) that are impossible to test. Claims that one could hold onto whatever happens have no real or concrete content, and consequently have no place in empirical science. In science one simply accepts the fact that one cannot know for sure. All scientific theories (even the most heavily tested!) are provisional.

[Everything]

4 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Huh? While you're entitled to an opinion , on everything open to opinion , every truth being true- is true , logically speaking , -even if there is nothing else true. 

Yeah that's also a truth that can be true if you want it to be true.

However, no truth can be easily achieved unless it feels absolutely perfectly in alignment with who it is you truely are, and your true nature.

For example, you can sort of place your hand on a fire, and say "That feels so good." while feeling absolutely horrible. So you're in a sense not allowing your own truth to be experienced.

Or you could have the very same experience, in a truthful way, where you are so completely hating life, you sort of wanna burn yourself, and you feel the relief from a lifelong of hatred, in the form of burning yourself, even tho it is a small relief, you could still acknowledge "Oh fk THAT FEELS SOOO GOOOOD AAAAAAHH!!!!" as your burn your own hand.

But then again, you're left with the pain, so you realize, ok well that was pointless. I guess I'm the only one that can hurt myself, time to stop doing that.

[Everything]

10 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Yes! And that's exactly what is so great about empirical science, it doesn't like empty proclamations (such as are found in many religions, new age thinking and crackpot theories) that are impossible to test. Claims that one could hold onto whatever happens have no real or concrete content, and consequently have no place in empirical science. In science one simply accepts the fact that one cannot know for sure. All scientific theories (even the most heavily tested!) are provisional.

Dude, if Usain Bolt says he can run fast, does that mean that he's lying because you can't run fast?

You just have to realize you don't enjoy whatever happens, even tho other people may enjoy whatever happens. So what can you do, to allow yourself to also enjoy whatever happens. To make a life for yourself that you enjoy. And just live that. And you wont really have to try so hard. It's not like Usain Bolt tried his whole life to become champion. He simply enjoyed running. And his passion to become the fastest, and bla bla. But what is relevant to you? It doesn't matter what other people think or do. What matters to you? What do you care about? What do you love? What is your passion? What is your truth? What are you truely mostly excited about. And those small things, lead to another and another and another. Untill you are your own version of the crackpot theory, and then people will call your theory a crackpot theory. Because you change the status quo. Because you are different. And unique. In your own way. You are allowing the eternal value of who you really are. And then no one can look at you, and not allow themselves to be who it is they really are aswell, without becoming jealous. And sort of hating you. Because you're enjoying life waaaaay to much. IT is OUTRAGIOUS. And they don't know how to do it aswell. Your life is going waaaay to well for you. "Place him on a cross. Quickly." they would say, Just to give an analogy. Ofcourse that's not gonna happen in reality. Because we humans are beyond that. Beyond the old truth. And now learning the new truth. But you can't figure it all out with your mind. You have to let your heart guide you in this. In remembering who it is you really are, and what everyone has thought you to forget.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Everything

[Stosh]

3 minutes ago, Everything said:

Yeah that's also a truth that can be true if you want it to be true.

However, no truth can be easily achieved unless it feels absolutely perfectly in alignment with who it is you truely are, and your true nature.

For example, you can sort of place your hand on a fire, and say "That feels so good." while feeling absolutely horrible. So you're in a sense not allowing your own truth to be experienced.

Or you could have the very same experience, in a truthful way, where you are so completely hating life, you sort of wanna burn yourself, and you feel the relief from a lifelong of hatred, in the form of burning yourself, even tho it is a small relief, you could still acknowledge "Oh fk THAT FEELS SOOO GOOOOD AAAAAAHH!!!!" as your burn your own hand.

But then again, you're left with the pain, so you realize, ok well that was pointless. I guess I'm the only one that can hurt myself, time to stop doing that.

I think most would call that being warped or crazy, ( the self burning thing) , while some get an endorphin rush from mild pains , which exceeds the negative value of the pains, the thing they are liking is the endorphins, same as anyone else might.

For instance, I like to eat hot chili peppers, (which is not really all that odd) , but I do not want to get them in my eye, nor do I enjoy a pounding headache. 

[Everything]

14 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I think most would call that being warped or crazy, ( the self burning thing) , while some get an endorphin rush from mild pains , which exceeds the negative value of the pains, the thing they are liking is the endorphins, same as anyone else might.

For instance, I like to eat hot chili peppers, (which is not really all that odd) , but I do not want to get them in my eye, nor do I enjoy a pounding headache. 

Exactly, because how you feel is all about energy, vibration, emotion, energy in motion, however you call it. You go through life as an energy being. You are energy. You are not the sum of a couple of letters and words. You are WAAAAY more than that. You are an eternal non-physical consciousness, a small part of which is focused here in your physical body. And everything in this universe is all but energy and vibration, you could think of everything as a thought, a non-physical energy, that consciousness focuses upon and expands, into more and more specificness and higher resolution of that same thought, all the physical specificness you see around you, including your physical body, created by that broader perspective of non-physical god or source of creation or whatever you wanna call it. So why would you wanna think your way to the truth by just using your mind alone? if you can rather, feel your way to the truth, allow your heart to guide you, feel your way to allowing your full connection to your non-physical source of being, your vibrational nature, and aligning with the entire universe, by allowing your heart to become the center of your being as it already is, your non-physical vibrational nature, is perfect, and yet always evolving into better and better, your eternal nature, your soul, again many words for the same thing. Some say you are love, but that's just the beginning. Then they say you're bliss, but that's also just the beginning. Then they say you're rapturous extacy. Again, still, just the beginning. There is no end to that which you are. You are eternal and infinite. You act naturally that way. To just do what you wanna do, cause it feels better and that is your eternal destiny. You don't think too hard, and then think "Hmmm maybe I should put this pepper in my eyes?" Well, unless again, you would be feeling your way to that, and you would be sort of excited about the defiance and outragious idea of HEY DUDE" LOLOLOL Look at me I'm gonna put pepper in my eyes ahahahaha! xD" lololol

Sure, that can be part of the journey of life. But it happens naturally. Just for fun.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Everything