Thoughts/Questions: "The Secret of the Golden Flower" . . .

[Lataif]

Please:

 

(1)  Doesn't Life really make you wonder sometimes (?)

 

(2) It's alternatingly awesome (for what you find) . . . and disconcerting (for what

you might have missed).

 

(3) I came across a reference to "The Secret of the Golden Flower" (translation by

Cleary) a few weeks ago in some author that I trusted.   So I ordered it from the

library and then it sat around beneath a pile of other books that I was making my

way through.

 

(4) The book eventually came due for return and I still had half a dozen of the other

books unread . . . so I considered giving it a pass after all.

 

(6) But then it had happened that a day came free for me and for some reason I chose

it next for my full attention . . .

 

***

 

(7) Wow,.

 

(8)  Although I've studied QiGong for some time . . . I haven't read any classic Daoist

literature at all.

 

(9) "The Secret of the Golden Flower" has been a great experience.

 

(10) I'm particularly struck by:

 

• the multiple shocks of recognition, across space and time (so to speak), of what
• was being talked about
•  
• the memorable figurative language in which the experiences were expressed

 

(11) The best example of the latter is probably "turning the light around" . . . as a

concise summary of spiritual practice.

 

***

 

(12) So some additional help with this from members here, please:

 

• How many are familiar with this text (?)
•  
• How do you rate/place it among other classics of Daoist literature (?)

 

Thanks very much (!)

 

 

[doc benway]

1) Yes!

7) Wow indeed, ever read the Neiye? That's another big WOW

11) "Turning the light around" is a perfectly precise and profound pith instruction, none better. For the right student, it's all you need.

12) I'm familiar with the text but I will decline to rate or rank it, I wouldn't presume to judge the Daoist literature. If I find something that doesn't make sense or that I don't "like" it is a reflection of my lack of understanding, not a fault of the text. At least that's my approach to these classics. They offer a lifetime of study and contemplation and if I stay open, I may well understand in the future.

[Gerard]

My opinion:

 

"Stay away from that pile of...:)"

 

Lots and lots and lots and lots of leg work, dear friend.

 

...like a wandering monk. Seated meditation comes to play when your legs feel like jelly. 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Gerard

[Wu Ming Jen]

The secret of the golden flower is very powerful classic. The approach is direct transmission without secondary methods. For those with the bones of an immortal reading this classic will authenticate one's own experience.

 

I am incredibly happy for you latief good luck on your journey.

[Lataif]

4 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

The secret of the golden flower is very powerful classic. The approach is direct transmission without secondary methods. For those with the bones of an immortal . . . reading this classic will authenticate one's own experience.

 

I'm familiar with direct "pointing" from both Advaita Vedanta . . . and Dzogchen Buddhism.   

 

Zen (with which I'm also familiar) doesn't actually use it often (despite Mahakasyapa and

his flower . . .).

 

This is the first time I've seen it in Daoism.

 

Thanks . . . 

[lifeforce]

Greetings.

The Cleary translation is an extremely valuable book to me. The realisations I've had while reading it and meditating upon it's message have had a major impact in my cultivation.

In my opinion it's more Ch'an than Daoism, if you were to label it. But it is beyond labelling and compartmentalization.

There are two other books that I recommend which may enhance the wisdom found in The Secret of the Golden Flower.

 

1. Awakening to the Tao by Thomas Cleary.

2. Bankei by Peter Haskel.

 

Also, don't get hung up on traditions. Wisdom comes in many forms, whether it's the written word, the presence of a realised master, or the awe-inspiring beauty of nature.

[Lataif]

On 5/13/2018 at 2:47 AM, lifeforce said:

The Cleary translation is an extremely valuable book to me. The realisations I've had while reading it and meditating upon it's message have had a major impact in my cultivation.

In my opinion it's more Ch'an than Daoism, if you were to label it. But it is beyond labelling and compartmentalization.

There are two other books that I recommend which may enhance the wisdom found in The Secret of the Golden Flower.

 

1. Awakening to the Tao by Thomas Cleary.

2. Bankei by Peter Haskel.

 

 

(1) Thanks for recommendations.

 

(2) I'm definitely going to read more by Cleary -- he makes the difference.

 

(3) Half of the value of this "Golden Flower" edition is in his explanatory notes.

 

(4) The text is also interesting for a reason that I don't recall Cleary

mentioning.

 

(5) It's obvious (to me . . .) that the text was like the notes of some student

taken during teaching sessions.

 

(6) The topics range far and wide . . . from one tradition to another  . . . as if

someone were answering questions from students with all kinds of

backgrounds (or all kinds of curiosity).

 

(7) It's a valuable insight into a teaching situation -- but can be a little

confusing to someone who doesn't already have some idea of what that

situation might be like.

 

(8) My understanding is that the Christian gospels are similar in that way.

 

(9) They're originally notes of students working with a teacher in a school

 . . . and never intended for publication.

 

(10) They make 100% sense only in the context of that teaching situation

 -- which we don't know anything about . . .

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Lataif

[awaken]

I have read this book many years ago. Of course, I read the Chinese version. Its Chinese name is 太乙金華宗旨.

 

At first, I spent a lot of time reading it and tried to understand it.

But I found some mistakes in it. Therefore, I haven't read it for many years.

 

The author of the book is unknown. In this book, people can see a name 呂帝. But he is not the real author of this book. Someone else wrote it. Someone said 王重陽 wrote it.

 

Now I read it again. I found what he wrote about 陽生 is right. 陽生 means Yang start. Actually, 陽生 is the second Yang. 陽極生陰，陰極生陽. It means "When Yang goes to the extreme, Ying starts. When Ying goes to the extreme, Yang starts."

In 黃元吉 Huang Yuan Ji's book 樂育堂語錄, we can see there are three kinds of 陽生.

 

To understand what is the real 陽生 is very important for a dan dao 行者 trainer. If one misunderstand what is 陽生, he or she may not be succeed to achieve golden dan all his life.

 

There is no light in the first layer of 陽生. We can see special light in the second layer of 陽生. It looks like mandala, a strange light, many different shapes.  The real golden dan starts in the third layer of 陽生. Very few people can achieve here. It needs a lot of 陽生 to stay in the third layer of 陽生. Only if one can stay in the third layer of 陽生, he can achieve golden dan and dharma body 法身.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by awaken

[exorcist_1699]

On 15/05/2018 at 1:59 AM, awaken said:

I have read this book many years ago. Of course, I read the Chinese version. Its Chinese name is 太乙金華宗旨.

 

At first, I spent a lot of time reading it and tried to understand it.

But I found some mistakes in it. Therefore, I haven't read it for many years.

 

The author of the book is unknown. In this book, people can see a name 呂帝. But he is not the real author of this book. Someone else wrote it. Someone said 王重陽 wrote it.

 

Now I read it again. I found what he wrote about 陽生 is right. 陽生 means Yang start. Actually, 陽生 is the second Yang. 陽極生陰，陰極生陽. It means "When Yang goes to the extreme, Ying starts. When Ying goes to the extreme, Yang starts."

In 黃元吉 Huang Yuan Ji's book 樂育堂語錄, we can see there are three kinds of 陽生.

 

To understand what is the real 陽生 is very important for a dan dao 行者 trainer. If one misunderstand what is 陽生, he or she may not be succeed to achieve golden dan all his life.

 

There is no light in the first layer of 陽生. We can see special light in the second layer of 陽生. It looks like mandala, a strange light, many different shapes.  The real golden dan starts in the third layer of 陽生. Very few people can achieve here. It needs a lot of 陽生 to stay in the third layer of 陽生. Only if one can stay in the third layer of 陽生, he can achieve golden dan and dharma body 法身.

 

 

 

"太乙金華宗旨"  ( "The secret of the golden flower") is said to be Lu's work,  however ,  whether it is true or not  seems doubtful ..., and  hardly can it  match to Huang's work  ( sorry to say this, unfortunately , it is true ) ; Huang's , although is just some records of his talks with his disciples ,  and looks unorganized , is , in fact , the  climax of  the development of Taoist literature in recent centuries..

 

Why says that it is unfortunate ? Unfortunate in the sense that so few foreigners read  Chinese, especially those who  know and read  the Chinese Taoist literature . 2nd or 3rd class stuff is always viewed as the most precious ;  it happens in the case of  Taoist writings , it also happens in the case of appreciating of some schools . The most popular ones are mistaken as the best ..,which always happen .

Edited May 20, 2018 by exorcist_1699

[awaken]

Yes.