Marblehead Posted May 14, 2018 That just popped into my mind. Is it a valid concept? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kar3n Posted May 14, 2018 On first thought it sounds very Taoist. I am going to chew on this a bit before I comment further. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Marblehead said: That just popped into my mind. Is it a valid concept? Patience is a skill most are sadly lacking. Nothing teaches patience quite as well as futility. One's mind either rebels and one is in hell, or accepts, knowing its futile but keeps going til its done. Edited May 14, 2018 by thelerner 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CityHermit! Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/14/2018 at 4:11 PM, Marblehead said: That just popped into my mind. Is it a valid concept? Could it be like attaining new levels not thought possible when being pushed to the limits of survival? Or when failure and loss yield new insight that continued success might not necessarily achieve? I don't know but it's an interesting thought. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted May 20, 2018 If you don't believe in life after death, reincarnation, etc. life is ultimate futile. The effect one has on the world at large is negligible. And even if one has some effect, the long term consequences are unknown. And even if the long term consequences are known, one cannot be sure about the ethical evaluation of those consequences. But should we on the other hand focus on our own cultivation, that's useless too because we will likely rot away (or be burned up) after we die. So thinking about life in terms of utility is ultimately useless, because there are no credible goals beyond life itself. Facing the ultimate futility of human existence can become a formidable obstacle to finding some peace and happiness in one's life, unless one embraces the futility as a doorway to a playful form of existence. I'm not there yet, because the problems of daily life frequently spoil the above playful perspective, and so I hardly ever actually live it. I will probably have to meditate more than I currently do. Nevertheless I think it's a useful way for a modern philosophical Taoist to solve the existential problem of the ultimate futility of life. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, wandelaar said: If you don't believe in life after death, reincarnation, etc. life is ultimate futile. The effect one has on the world at large is negligible. And even if one has some effect, the long term consequences are unknown. And even if the long term consequences are known, one cannot be sure about the ethical evaluation of those consequences. But should we on the other hand focus on our own cultivation, that's useless too because we will likely rot away (or be burned up) after we die. So thinking about life in terms of utility is ultimately useless, because there are no credible goals beyond life itself. Facing the ultimate futility of human existence can become a formidable obstacle to finding some peace and happiness in one's life, unless one embraces the futility as a doorway to a playful form of existence. What a great response. I think you put more thought into it than I did. Your first sentence speaks the raw truth. 1 hour ago, wandelaar said: I'm not there yet, because the problems of daily life frequently spoil the above playful perspective, and so I hardly ever actually live it. I will probably have to meditate more than I currently do. Nevertheless I think it's a useful way for a modern philosophical Taoist to solve the existential problem of the ultimate futility of life. Perhaps not there yet but at least you know a path that could be followed if you didn't have so many things to do while living. This brings to mind the concept of being beyond death. Death has no part to play in your philosophy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted May 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Marblehead said: This brings to mind the concept of being beyond death. Death has no part to play in your philosophy. I follow Epicurus on death. Not that I am absolutely sure about it, but I think the most probable thing to happen is that we as conscious beings just disappear as we die. After all: our inner life is a functioning, and a functioning can start and stop. But dying itself may be painful. See: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
