Dao De Jing and Zhang Botuan Translations

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

My teacher recommended I get the James Legge  and D.C. Lau translations of the Dao De Jing and one more from a native Chinese person. Does anyone have any good recommendations for a translation done by a native Chinese person? Also I would be interested in any recommendations you all have.

 

The second book is Zhang Botuan. He didn't recommend a author for this title. Does anyone have some good translations to recommend?

 

Thanks much for your time.

[CityHermit!]

I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation of Dao De Jing myself. There should be others worthwhile but I know that one best.

 

For Zhang Botuan, I'm mostly familiar with the Thomas Cleary translation. I've seen another by Fabrizio Pregadio but cannot recall if I indeed read that. I got the Cleary one sooner because it was part of that big 4 volume set on classic texts.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited May 19, 2018 by CityHermit!
forgot to finish editing sentence before posting

[Mig]

I can only recommend what I have found useful as translations from Chinese to English:

 

Wang Keping. The Classic of the Dao: A New Investigation. Beijing: Foreign Languages Press, 1998

The Tao Te Ching: A New Translation With Commentary. Translated and edited by Ellen M. Chen. New York: Paragon House, 1989

Tao Te Ching : Tao and Virtue Classic. Translation by Derek Lin

 

Others are okay but mostly for the English style and few have explanations or full commentaries. At least all those 3 authors have good command of both languages, Chinese and English.

 

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

Thanks much for the suggestions y'all. But now it looks like I have many more books on my list! Do you all have any opinions on the versions I spoke of? I will probably end up getting them, but my teacher said he doesn't read translations (he's a native of China). So I am interested in opinions of them.

 

[Mig]

IMHO, I never understood Legge and Lau seems a good start. Maybe should I ask, what is the purpose of your study of the DDJ?

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

I suppose I don't fully know what my purpose is. I'm looking for more info on Daoism and to cultivate inner alchemy. I have been told that it is a good read for anyone interested in cultivation.

[Taoist Texts]

10 hours ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

So I am interested in opinions of them.

Both books are incomprehensible without a proper guidance, but, when read as poetry they can be a source of inspiration.

 

In practical terms, DDJ is marginally useful for inner alchemy due to its general idea of quietism. Zhang's Wuzhenpian, on the other hand, while being a seminal work on inner alchemy -  is not useful at all. Without a guidance its just a confusing heap of flowery verses. 

 

Since you lack guidance and yet are intent on reading it, the best place to start  is Pregadio's intro to it

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/neidan_and_wzp_1.html

The text itself will remain incomprehensible, but at least the intro provides a clearer outlay of it.

 

Zhang's afterword:

 

 

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Both books are incomprehensible without a proper guidance, but, when read as poetry they can be a source of inspiration.

 

In practical terms, DDJ is marginally useful for inner alchemy due to its general idea of quietism. Zhang's Wuzhenpian, on the other hand, while being a seminal work on inner alchemy -  is not useful at all. Without a guidance its just a confusing heap of flowery verses. 

 

Since you lack guidance and yet are intent on reading it, the best place to start  is Pregadio's intro to it

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/neidan_and_wzp_1.html

The text itself will remain incomprehensible, but at least the intro provides a clearer outlay of it.

 

Zhang's afterword:

 

 

Where does one fine "proper guidance" in these texts?

[Taoist Texts]

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Taoist Texts

[Mig]

On 5/20/2018 at 10:41 AM, Taoist Texts said:

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Worth reading about misconceptions and very educational, thanks again. Any PDF available on this topic of misconceptions of qigong, neidan, alchemy 2.0?

Edited May 26, 2018 by Mig

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

On 5/20/2018 at 12:41 PM, Taoist Texts said:

One  gets guidance from a real teacher.

 

Here is a FAQ on teachers and teaching.

 

 

Well it only outlined what teachers aren't, not how to find a good one. Seems to me there are no good teachers in Texas!

 

What would you suggest for reading that will help my cultivation? What do you consider to be good work that will help me to understand Dantian rotation and cultivation?

[Taoist Texts]

On 5/25/2018 at 10:19 PM, Mig said:

Any PDF available on this topic of misconceptions of qigong, neidan, alchemy 2.0?

 

51 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

What do you consider to be good work that will help me to understand Dantian rotation and cultivation?

Hey guys. Thats easy, plenty of reading on the net

http://www.taiji-bg.com/articles/taijiquan/t38.htm

https://taichinotebook.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/in-tai-chi-you-have-to-go-down-to-go-up/

http://www.iari.ru/dtconnect.html

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/daitech1.html

http://daixinyi.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/dun-hou-shi-squatting-monkey.html?view=classic

 

 

55 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

What would you suggest for reading that will help my cultivation?

This one is trickier. You see, cultivation is like a career, it is a means to an end. What are your goals?

 

 

58 minutes ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

Well it only outlined what teachers aren't, not how to find a good one.

Yes, thats the next step. It depends on your end goal.

https://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/end-goals-vs-means-goals/

[OldDog]

Though I am not particularly interested in alchemy, I recently read a book that goes a long way toward connecting alchemy to the more general study of daoism. 

 

The Seal of the Unity of the Three, by Fabrizio Pregadio is a most comprehensive explanation of alchemy language.  It goes a long way toward demystifying the cryptic language of alchemical text and sets alchemy into the context of broader Daoism. I have not read Pregadio's other works and so cannot speak to them. But, short of an actual hands on master, it is hard to imagine a better introduction to daoist alchemy.

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

So assuming I have a teacher, which translations of understanding reality are good?

 

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

On 5/18/2018 at 10:21 PM, CityHermit! said:

I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation of Dao De Jing myself. There should be others worthwhile but I know that one best.

 

For Zhang Botuan, I'm mostly familiar with the Thomas Cleary translation. I've seen another by Fabrizio Pregadio but cannot recall if I indeed read that. I got the Cleary one sooner because it was part of that big 4 volume set on classic texts.

 

Hope that helps.

Have you read other translations of the DDJ? I actually have the copy from Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English. It seems really artsy but well done. I'm just curious on the quality of the translation.

 

Also I have yarrow sticks from Jane English for I-ching. They are very nice.

[CityHermit!]

3 hours ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

Have you read other translations of the DDJ? I actually have the copy from Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English. It seems really artsy but well done. I'm just curious on the quality of the translation.

 

Also I have yarrow sticks from Jane English for I-ching. They are very nice.

Yes many, but that was the one I liked most out of the ones that I recall involved native Chinese. There have been some others I've seen where the resulting English sentences were a bit more awkward. I'm sure there's more out there I should still check out in any case. I'd be looking forward to one day reading and understanding it in one or more Chinese script, but that would surely take some time and effort.

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

On 5/26/2018 at 2:16 PM, Taoist Texts said:

 

Hey guys. Thats easy, plenty of reading on the net

http://www.taiji-bg.com/articles/taijiquan/t38.htm

https://taichinotebook.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/in-tai-chi-you-have-to-go-down-to-go-up/

http://www.iari.ru/dtconnect.html

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/daitech1.html

http://daixinyi.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/dun-hou-shi-squatting-monkey.html?view=classic

 

 

This one is trickier. You see, cultivation is like a career, it is a means to an end. What are your goals?

 

 

Yes, thats the next step. It depends on your end goal.

https://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/end-goals-vs-means-goals/

  Do you have any recomendations on good translations of "Understanding Reality"? My teacher only reads in Chinese, so he doesn't have any knowledge of translations. Though he will give me feedback and help with the one I pick.

 

Thanks much

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Wood Dragon-Metal Horse said:

good translations of "Understanding Reality"?

Pregadio is the golden standart

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/press/trl_01_wuzhenpian.html

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

On 6/20/2018 at 1:56 PM, Taoist Texts said:

Pregadio is the golden standart

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/press/trl_01_wuzhenpian.html

Thanks much. I am curious if you, or anyone, can comment on the differences between Pregadio and Cleary in their translations of this work?

[Taoist Texts]

Cleary is sloppy and amateurish; Pregadio is exact and scholarly. That said,  you will not understand the subject matter from reading the either. 

[Bindi]

This is an online version (first ten verses I think) of Awakening to Reality with excellent notes from Pregadio   https://universalflowuniversity.com/Books/Spiritual Philosophy/Taoism/(Taoism) Pregadio, Fabrizio - Awakening to Reality.pdf 

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

On 27/05/2018 at 7:16 AM, Taoist Texts said:

 

Hey guys. Thats easy, plenty of reading on the net

http://www.taiji-bg.com/articles/taijiquan/t38.htm

https://taichinotebook.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/in-tai-chi-you-have-to-go-down-to-go-up/

http://www.iari.ru/dtconnect.html

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/daitech1.html

http://daixinyi.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/dun-hou-shi-squatting-monkey.html?view=classic

 

 

This one is trickier. You see, cultivation is like a career, it is a means to an end. What are your goals?

 

 

Yes, thats the next step. It depends on your end goal.

https://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/08/end-goals-vs-means-goals/

 

 

Hi,

Thanks for linking to my blog www.daixinyi.blogspot.com if there are any questions regarding the content, feel free to ask away.

 

DZQ

[awaken]

想要看懂張伯端的書，一定要放棄丹田輪轉。

否則你肯定看不懂。

因為當你把意放在氣感上，你的意就不清淨了。

意土不清淨，後面都練不上去了。

 

If you want to understand Zhang Boduan's book, you must give up the rotation of the dantian.

Otherwise you will definitely not understand.

Because when you put your mind on the sense of qi, your mind is not pure.

The mind soil is not clean, and I can't practice it later.

 

想要看懂張伯端，直接問我就好了。

 

起碼我是一個大活人，可以回答你的問題

 

If you want to understand Zhang Boduan, just ask me directly.

At least I'm a big living person and can answer your questions