Lao tse or Lao tzu; Chuang tse or Chuang tzu

[wandelaar]

I usually write "Lao tse" in place of "Lao tzu" and "Chuang tse" in place of "Chuang tzu". But why?

 

What reasons are there to choose the one or the other? 

[Marblehead]

Doesn't matter, really.  I'm old fashioned and still hold to the "Tzu" of years ago.  I even still use "Tao" although I have been trying to adapt to the "Dao" spelling.

 

[Stosh]

The tzu or tse is just an honorific, a title, a formality ,neither of them would have given a hoot if it was ommitted, and it actually indicates a rejection of the principles they professed. imo

[Stosh]

I tend to use Tao when I refer to the belief group, and Dao when I am talking about the universe process. I think everyone should copy me in that respect. 

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

I tend to use Tao when I refer to the belief group, and Dao when I am talking about the universe process. I think everyone should copy me in that respect. 

Yeah, we will follow you even though I have no idea if you know what the fuck you are doing.

 

[Stosh]

11 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, we will follow you even though I have no idea if you know what the fuck you are doing.

 

You dont understand differentiating between faith and the physical? 

[Marblehead]

8 hours ago, Stosh said:

You dont understand differentiating between faith and the physical? 

Yes, I do understand the difference.  I can talk about the physical because it is in my face.  I put labels on these physical things.

 

Mental concepts can be symbolized with words.  They aren't physical things - more at understandings.

 

But faith?  Desire to hold to a belief even though we may have no logical reason to do so?  

 

Dao and Tao.  Labels we have put on a mental concept.  Same with Tzu and Tse.

 

Actually, I can understand the use of "Dao" over "Tao" because we are told that the word is pronounced like the English word "Dow" as in Dow Jones.

 

But I don't understand the use of "Tse" because it is my understanding that it is pronounced like an English word spelled "Tsue".

 

Too bad there are no acceptable English words that would properly express the Chinese symbolization of the words.  

 

 

[wandelaar]

I would be happy to use "tzu" instead of "tse". But pinyin would be a problem because as a philosophical Taoist I prefer to study and read the old sinologists above the modern ones that focus on the religious and magical aspects of Taoism. Besides, I don't like to change because of a change in the party line.

Edited May 26, 2018 by wandelaar

[Marblehead]

Well, our study of Chuang Tzu is still on-going.  And it will continue right up to the end.

 

[Starjumper]

I like to keep with the old fashioned way, the way it was when I started, and prefer not to suck up to the changes the communists made to the translation spellings.  I heard they made these changes partly to accommodate and standardize things for the use of computers, because the computers use our alphabet.  I think their official spelling is Laozi (sounds like Lousy) and taiji instead of tai chi.

 

The worst is what they did to chi kung, sometimes I use the new standard spelling of qigong when I do some advertising because chi kung only became popular after the change in spelling,  I sometimes write chi kung (qigong).  What's sick is some people are pronouncing the new way phonetically.  I even know of one powerful witch/energy vampire who opened a chi kung school in Seattle after meeting me and she didn't even know how to pronounce it correctly.  She knew nothing of chi kung and was probably teaching some BS she saw on Utube, and the reason she did it is to steal people's life energy.  

Edited May 26, 2018 by Starjumper

[Marblehead]

Well, there are many strange people in Seattle.

 

[LAOLONG]

For lao (old in chinese)

The old Master

And

Master chuang

[Rara]

On 24/05/2018 at 6:23 PM, Marblehead said:

Doesn't matter, really.  I'm old fashioned and still hold to the "Tzu" of years ago.  I even still use "Tao" although I have been trying to adapt to the "Dao" spelling.

 

 

Yep, I like "Tzu/Zi"and "Tao".

 

When you see me using "Tse" and "Dao", I have officially let go If you see me using these, I have found "Dao"

[LAOLONG]

3 hours ago, ONE said:

For lao (old in chinese)

The old Master

And

Master chuang

Tzu is a honor title meaning

Master in chinese

[GOOWDAY]

Early phonetic notation is based on Cantonese, and now the phonetic notation is in accordance with Putonghua（Mandarin）。

[doc benway]

The current standard is Laozi and Zhuangzi.

Pinyin is the current standard for Romanization of Mandarin.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Chinese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Chinese_transcription_systems

Edited May 27, 2018 by steve

[doc benway]

14 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 I think their official spelling is Laozi (sounds like Lousy) and taiji instead of tai chi.

 

Laozi, Lao-tzu, and Lao-tse sound exactly the same.

The letters are just approximations of the correct pronunciation.

For accuracy and communication, having a standard is quite useful.

The communists did a few things right, this was one of them.

[silent thunder]

I appreciate the concept used in the Greek language with their nouns.

 

If I am holding an apple in my hand and offering it to you, that is one word.

If we are discussing the concept of an apple, the formless idea of apples in general... then that is another word.

 

But too damn lazy to learn Greek and move there to enjoy the use of it.

alas... what a quagmire I'm in