What role does faith play in the taoist perspective?

[Boundlesscostfairy]

So I was thining about the type of faith it's required to have to literally be like Jesus..

 

Then I came across the idea that there are many types of faith, in multiple religions.. each type of faith is a bit different..

 

There is faith in your fellow man.. Faith in ideals, ideas and in goodness in general..

 

There of course is the opposite type of faith.. which is in Evil.. dictators, unholymen.. the idea of survival of the fittest.. For example that cute lamb dies to a Lion.. The laws of nature and the circle of life!

 

I think Taoism is mostly about that circle of life.. 

 

Finding and sensing the way in everything.. and is a stable for good ethics.. 

 

But I've never heard of a Taoist that can perform miracles.

 

But one would assume that miracles too have a root in the Tao.. or that the Tao is the miracle itself..!!

 

So what do you guys think of faith in anywhere it can be applied.. and specfically being a Taoist and what role faith plays in your life..?

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

But I've never heard of a Taoist that can perform miracles.

 

today is the day

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

4 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

So I was thining about the type of faith it's required to have to literally be like Jesus..

 

Then I came across the idea that there are many types of faith, in multiple religions.. each type of faith is a bit different..

 

There is faith in your fellow man.. Faith in ideals, ideas and in goodness in general..

 

There of course is the opposite type of faith.. which is in Evil.. dictators, unholymen.. the idea of survival of the fittest.. For example that cute lamb dies to a Lion.. The laws of nature and the circle of life!

 

I think Taoism is mostly about that circle of life.. 

 

Finding and sensing the way in everything.. and is a stable for good ethics.. 

 

But I've never heard of a Taoist that can perform miracles.

 

But one would assume that miracles too have a root in the Tao.. or that the Tao is the miracle itself..!!

 

So what do you guys think of faith in anywhere it can be applied.. and specfically being a Taoist and what role faith plays in your life..?

 

Faith actually is from Fey - etymologically - it means "light" - so in Daoism that is shen also called fire in Daoist alchemy.

So meditation turns the light that goes out of our eyes - and visualizes it at the base of the spine - this is the Daoist process.

Then as you go deeper into meditation then so called "exceptional human functions" develop.

So evil is based on the light being low frequency - in the body - as the intention of the spirit.

So this is why the chakras are based on the color of light as frequency - so then as the light opens up the third eye then you see yellow light externally. This is called the Earth spirit light - you start to see yellow auras around people or trees, etc.

As you open the third eye more then you see more lights externally - more colors.

As you focus the light in the body more then then color turns more gold - this is light from the future - superluminal virtual light called the "golden key." So the Daoist hermits develop the golden light - called the Yang Shen.

For those of deep faith - they do a 49 day cave meditation - no sleep - just full lotus yoga meditation the whole time.

Then Lao Tzu can appear to them as a Yang Shen - a golden immortal body - and touch them.

And such immortal ancestors can then help a person do healing - so you can call on the master's energy to join your own energy.

You can read the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality for details - just search it online. It take a while to understand the book. haha. But that gives the instructions for the meditation practice.

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Interesting.. I had a sight of a red aura surrounding me..just about an hour and a half ago.. before I read your post..

 

Do you know what red auras symbolize?

 

Edit: And thank you that information was really helpful for me..

Edited May 25, 2018 by Boundlesscostfairy

[Gerard]

ZERO faith and HEAPS of PRACTICE. Religion and blindly following others' experiences is one of the greatest hurdles on this path.

 

Bagua practice for 10 years, especially in the past 2 where I no longer work and practice 24/7, has reinforced this view.

 

Also when I attended a Vipassana retreat in 2008 I was asked to read nothing, talk to no one in regards to meditation experiences, only with my assigned teacher for the sole purpose of making sure the meditation process was running smoothly. Nothing else was discussed, no sutras, no religion, no beliefs. I even said to my teacher: listen I saw some ghosts in my room that are bothering me. He payed to interest, he just said:

 

KEEP MEDITATING.

 

And that is what everyone was expected to do in 3 weeks, 24/7. That eat mindfully and maintain silence as it is supposed to be a silent retreat. I broke this last requirement because of being a beginner, obviously.

 

PRACTICE.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Gerard

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well its my opinion based on practicing for nearly 10 years that you can bring meditation to anywhere you go..

 

Though retreats seem appealing you can likely gain as much meditation doing everyday things except with mindfulness!

 

Mindfulness is the heart of meditation.. so my opinion of mindfulness is to truly ask ones self "what do I want to do?" And from there go with the flow..

 

If the flow matches what you want to do.. then granted your on the path to Buddhahood.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Interesting thoughts!

 

I’ma ramble a few cents then, hopefully adding something...

 

Faith, imxp, is to daoist practice as @Gerard wrote more or less.

Believing is something one can choose and i consider faith and belief to be pretty much interchangeable as concepts.

 

Faith/belief in a god, i can speak personally to that:

A few years ago i chose to believe in Guan Gong and i know that we have mutual faith in eachother. 

I had to practice how to speak and how to perform offerings as a means of acting from my heart when we interact, but the techniques are not the way. I was offered a chance to develop a relationship of trust and aid with a spiritually powerful something and it was like getting to know somebody new. Like meeting a new Sifu. My Sifu introduced us by showing me how to behave and interact from his own knowledge and experience, but he merely opened a door for me to have interaction with Guan Gong. Because he felt my heart could be honest in this, i think. Or that it would help me further solidifying honesty, compassion and respect, have help at hand from a very reliable source. It was an act of kindness and a way for us to further share and build things together.

 

I think mindfullness is a good way to meditate daily in practice and life to discern and cultivate ones Zi-Ran and bridging the gap between our yin ,atter and yang energy. But mindfullness is merely a technique to be able to develop sight and sensitivity for how to manifest and align oneself properly to increase the chance of success in ones actions.

Dao is there and does their thing, we can choose different approaches and techniques to achieve what we want, really anything goes but some ways are far better and reap far larger benefit in a greater context.

Some of those ways are very in tune with the Dao i think, some are not.

Sometimes acting childishly selfish and behaving like an asshole is the exact way to follow the flow in a most auspicious way, sometimes it’s just detrimental and destructive. In the end there is no real external morality or faith, it’s just us and everything else here.

 

Faith and belief is in a way fundamental, but where to place it? What to believe? So, as i think i keep saying far too often to be of any use, in a way both faith and belief are inconsequential without specifics.

 

Returning to my example with worshipping Guan Gong: he exists already, it wont even matter if i believe in him or not, my faith will not confirm nor nullify his existance, whatever plane he might be on. Wether i choose to believe we can have interaction and be kind and generous to eachother is more the matter, and even then after any initial discomfort in accepting that by doing things a certain way with full honesty that is in fact what is happening, belief stops being a matter. We interact and that is a fact.

 

If somebody were to describe that as a man talking to and offering treats to an ornate statue they would not be wrong, thats what it can look like.

Describe it as a man who stupidly believes in some made up bearded fellow who has all sorts of mystical powers, carries a big fuckoff-halberd and is the protector of the weirdest most disparate things they are most likely disparaging something for their own sake and projecting it onto what they see but they are possibly not wrong at all.

My faith in this matters not, i speak and offer to Guan Gong and there is an interaction between us, wether he be nothing, just a statue or a heavenly immortal of immense power and humbly righteous compassion.

 

Now im approaching murky waters:

Description of stuff make them so, in a way. Correct or not, if they are like that then thats it. There is no benefit in limiting either knowledge or truth in this of course, why set more hurdles and obstacles where they are not needed?

We are but people. Supported by earth who is nurtured from the sky. None of the three are good or evil. Sometimes terrible things happen, sometimes people do terrible things to eachother, it is ugly when this happens by design and intention. But if an earthquake kills 1000 people in an instant, is it a malicious act with murderius intent?

Hardly.

Being like the earth is just like that. It is possible to have accidents and inflict terrible damage without meaning to, but if it happens and there is no good or evil in it, whats left?

If buddahood is indeed something to strive for, are karma and rebirth not part of buddahood even if they are eliminated? Becoming a bodhisattva, returning or staying for the supposed liberation of everything, isn’t that noble and terribly pretentious, perhaps even damaging to the goal of liberating of all things? What if Guan Yins endless mercy and compassion increases suffering for all those who are not blessed with feeling it?

Sure, pointless observations, who am i to question the Ladys wisdom or methods? But again, with mere concepts i have described a possible catastrophic error, however unlikely.

The Dao is whatever it is, encompassing all and leaving nothing undone or affected. Faith is a tool on the way, sometimes its good, sometimes it sucks. Use it wisely.

 

I’m out, Peace

 

[Gerard]

You create Guan Gong as anything else.  It is as real as you want it to be. Reality itself is infinite and not limited by mental creations. We ALL together and individually create THIS GAIA as well as other realities. 

 

Realising that we are ALL ONE is the main purpose of practice. But to reach this level many life cycles are required until the Mind grasps and understands it CLEARLY.

 

To the OP, living a physical life ALONE won't give you WISDOM and the above understanding I'm afraid. Why?

 

Simply because you are associating REALITY to what is perceived through the EGO which is directly tied up to material existence. This is highly limiting. Many humans, if not most, are UNAWAKENED for this very reason, not because of ignorance, but because it's all they WANT. They are in the early stages of LEARNING and as a result they have to go through countless Mind-body projections/life cycles/rebirths/reincarnations (pick whatever term you may prefer).

 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

Mind creates reality 

.....ad eternum, ad infinitum

 

I wish they could have taught us this First Noble Truth in school. 

 

Life on Gaia would be so different. Impossible to imagine.

 

Keep practising in earnest as my Vipassana teacher taught me...he knew this truth really well but he wanted me to find out for and by myself without him telling me. A sign of a good teacher.

 

No ghosts, demons, angels, gods and hells. They are as real as you are. And certainly both ORGANISED Buddhism and Christianity are ridden with these fairy tales. Stay away from faith and organised religion. This is my advice.

 

I bet you the original teachings of the Christ and the Buddha were far different from what they have become ---> a balloon of gigantic dimensions full of gas.

 

Nothing like practising alone in Nature. Priceless!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Gerard

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

ZERO faith and HEAPS of PRACTICE. 

 

No faith in your practice? 😀

[Gerard]

Nope. Only practice and a clear understanding that the MIND is everything and all that matters.

 

I forgot to add something that the OP must be aware of:

 

Your present state of Mind will determine your future life/ves. Now = future. So better start acting now rather than living or relying on a peaceful physical existence thinking that little meditation practice is enough, sorry but it is not. To remove all those conditions:

 

1. Hate

2. Anger

3. Resentment

4. Lust

5. Craving for the physical and immaterial life

 

These are the main offenders. The big boys.

 

You can add "fear" and "guilt" there too if you like.

 

The removal of those factors require a huge amount of mental and physical practice. There are no shortcuts here. 

 

Faith won't do crap!!

Edited May 25, 2018 by Gerard

[Marblehead]

9 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

So I was thining about the type of faith it's required to have to literally be like Jesus..

 

 

Doesn't require much faith.  But a lot of illusions and delusions are absolutely necessary.

 

[Stosh]

Taoist faith , is presented to best be of the natural sort.

Naturally, if one sees how things connect correctly ,

and makes a personal assessment of what is likely the case going forward ,

then one would have a natural faith in what to expect. 

Which isn't like the kind of faith where one suspends their suspicion and doubt, against all reason. 

[doc benway]

I see faith and belief as opposites.

I don't recall where I first heard this definition, it may have been Watts or Osho.

Either way it's the way I use the terms:

 

Belief is accepting something to be true without direct, personal experience.

Faith is releasing all belief and trusting that was remains as direct experience is truth.

...something like that

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

8 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Interesting.. I had a sight of a red aura surrounding me..just about an hour and a half ago.. before I read your post..

 

Do you know what red auras symbolize?

 

Edit: And thank you that information was really helpful for me..

 

The Yi or intention is from the heart as spirit or shen based on frequency. Since light has no rest mass it does have "relativistic mass" which means that the medium that light travels in is the Emptiness itself that creates the charge as Qi energy - this is called virtual photons or virtual information field.

 

So our intention or Yi is subconscious with our eyes open - it is controlled - the light goes directly to the emotional heart instead of the source of the light from the Emptiness. When we close our eyes and listen - we can listen to the source of the light, faster than we can see the light.

 

So this means that our thinking mind can not be trusted with the eyes open - so that we need to harmonize the body with the mind - to open up the energy channels. So this is why sitting in full lotus meditation is a good foundation to the training because if you can't do it then that means your body channels are not open.

 

So the Yi or intention has to be turned around to no left brain thoughts and then visualize internally to turn your Jing from the Shen under the Jing into qi.

 

So the "faith" is actually a science of complementary opposites of the energy channels of the body and mind.

 

This all starts with the eyes because ONLY the eyes in the body are yang - which means your Yuan Qi from the heart and your Yuan Shen from the heart - your spirit-qi - goes out of your eyes when they are open. For example Poonjaji - if you read his biography "NOthing Ever Happens" - he describes how by looking into people's eyes he then can see their past lives. Chunyi Lin has also mentioned seeing people's past lives but he rarely tells them unless it will help in their healing.

 

So this is why celibacy is necessary since - the energy is lost out of the eyes and also your spirit interacts with visual images - 2 dimensionally. The light as Faith does not experience space nor time on its own but it has to be powered by the Qi as the Mother of the Spirit.

 

So Qi is the Mother of Faith - because faith is from Light. This is called Con-Fidence or With-Faith. Because as you build up the qi energy then the light or shen increases.

 

So at first people see light internally - but this is called the  Relative Void - since it is just your Yang Qi from celibacy increasing the light released from your cells. Science calls this biophotons.

 

But with the eyes closed - if you visualize light then science has proven this increases the amount of light emitted internally. So this light originates from the Emptiness - from the virtual photons as relativistic mass - the light turned back around internally is bending spacetime as the Emptiness.

 

So this captures the faster than light or superluminal momentum or energy based on frequency - it is energy from the future.

 

So the Faith is then called - by existentialist Christians - a "Leap of Faith" - as Kierkegaard called it. This means that you can only logically infer the source of the light by listening to it.

 

You can not see the source of the Light - but your conceptual mind as the Yi Intention can go back to the source of the light but turning the light around and as the Qi energy builds up then the light increases. Eventually the light is so bright that you have no sense of self as ego anymore.

 

With the third eye fully open you can see in 4 directions out of your skull at the same time! Qigong master Jim Nance can do this - http://guidingqi.com and so can his teacher then Chunyi Lin of http://springforestqigong.com

 

So the Jing is like the Wax that powers the light - it takes a lot of wax to make the light brighter and stronger. But the "space" between the wick and the flame of the light is considered to be the Ether - this is the "flicker" of the light that has to be maintained as a harmonized energy - this is the Qi that creates both the Jing and the Shen.

 

So then a qigong master can embody the Qi and then create "original spirits" or "yuan Shen" from the Emptiness that is impersonal - and these spirits are individualized for each person being healed. And so if the person's intention is purified to be healed with their Yi turned back to the source of the light - then they can receive this Yuan Shen and so be completely healed back to their original spirit state.

 

This is when the Jing is at its fullest - like a 16 year old - and so the qi can be accessed through the Yuan Shen - this is called the Yuan Qi that only happens once the body energy channels are open and filled up with the jing - from the alchemical process of putting the Light or Faith - or spiritual Fire into the Earth as the bones of the body - to turn the Water or jing into Air as Qi.

 

So this ancient Bronze age alchemy is from all over Asia and goes back to Africa - the original human culture - the San Bushmen.

 

To have Faith means to build up your Con-Fid-ence - since Fid is from Fidelity which is another word for Faith as Light.

 

So for example if I meditate in full lotus 8 hours a day - which I did from people paying me $20 donations. So someone would pay me $20 through paypal and so I promised to meditate 8 hours in full lotus with my eyes closed. So as I did that then my qi increased and so I saw more light or Shen - and so I built up my Con-Fid-ence - since I know that meditation can restore the light.

 

But most people lack faith and so think that if you sit in your room alone for 8 hours a day then something must be desperately wrong. haha. So in our modern world - we lack true Yi or proper intention - which is really to take the "Leap of Faith" - to listen to the source of the light.

 

Quote

A leap of faith according to Kierkegaard involves circularity insofar as the leap is made by faith. In his book Concluding Unscientific Postscript, he describes the core part of the leap of faith: the leap

 

So this is also a type of love - because the heart has to open up - and this is the source of the light. It is the "Cauldron" that the fire of Faith - the spirit goes under - into the Sacrum and so the cauldron of the heart opens up - and this creates the "steam" as the Qi energy.

 

So a person could be in love - which is a type of faith - and if the male is pure and celibate then this love will open up the heart and as the heart gets very hot - this will then open up the third eye for visions of light - and you can see your whole life in review based on all the karma of life. In other words - time is not linear - so our future is connected to our past. What we see externally with the eyes open is already there in our soul from the Yuan Qi - the Yuan Qi is the 5th dimension like a black hole.

 

Quote

I feel that the past, and the present and the future is all in one state. They’re operating at different frequency levels. It isn’t the past here, the present here and the future here. We are all at one state. The past, present and future are all here. That’s why some people have deja vu….

– Qigong Grandmaster Effie P. Chow

 

So you can have visions of the future that are MORE REAL than being awake with the eyes open. And so with the eyes open we are actually experiencing the past - because our brain processes the light subconsciously and then filters it and creates an illusion of the present that is really from the past. So with meditation we turn the past into the future - by having the eyes closed we stop the subconscious from creating energy blockages. And then we can heal our future - before it happens - because we access the soul as the Yuan Qi that contains the light of the future and the light in the past.

 

Qigong master Jim Nance http://guidingqi.com can go into the past and so if someone has an energy blockage - the cause of the blockage has to be reversed or prevented in TIME. So he no longer tells people what they were experiencing just before the blockage occurred - because that would freak out the person being healed. It is the Emptiness that does the healing and so when the light is very bright - the healing happens on its own.

 

This is like a strobe light that focuses the mind as a laser energy that is harmonized - and so you maintain the focus in the vision and the Emptiness as the Yuan Qi does the healing. This is the Faith - you have Con-Fid-ence that the Qi is the Mother of the spirit.  The spirit is the male but the Mother is the Emptiness that can not be seen or never "unveiled."

 

Quote

The key is being open to listening, that's the hardest thing. If you get five seconds of focus you're doing something. You slow yourself down, to maintain your focus, breathing is an important part, if you can pull the visualization without losing the connection, then it's much easier to shift the energy. If I inhale and exhale and be more objective, not so subjectively pulled into the experience, it would be like taking a snap-shot, looking at the snap-shot, keeping it steady while I was breathing. I could then keep my focus on something for an extended period of time. All I had to do was wait and the energy would shift on its own.

Qigong master Jim Nance

Edited May 25, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Gerard]

I also forgot to add:

 

1. Vipassana teacher ----> Born in 1969, Gemini, Fire Rooster (thinking animal). He has x-ray vision like a good rooster but also:

 

"Diligent and intense, he abides fanatically by his own views, conducting his own research, unmoved and unswayed by the opinions or feelings of others. (http://www.metaphysicalzone.com/china/rooster4.shtml).

 

I fully agree with that. No fairy tales under his guidance.

 

Pretty much conforms to what the Buddha might have been, a fire rooster.

 

2. Bagua teacher. I have two, the main one born in 1973, Water Ox (thinking animal). He Jinghan is also my Bagua teacher although not a physical one since I have picked up a lot of his teachings from his YT channel ---> born in 1954, Wood Horse (old soul).

 

Things start to make sense here.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Gerard

[Gerard]

.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Gerard

[Boundlesscostfairy]

18 hours ago, Gerard said:

Nope. Only practice and a clear understanding that the MIND is everything and all that matters.

 

I forgot to add something that the OP must be aware of:

 

Your present state of Mind will determine your future life/ves. Now = future. So better start acting now rather than living or relying on a peaceful physical existence thinking that little meditation practice is enough, sorry but it is not. To remove all those conditions:

 

1. Hate

2. Anger

3. Resentment

4. Lust

5. Craving for the physical and immaterial life

 

These are the main offenders. The big boys.

 

You can add "fear" and "guilt" there too if you like.

 

The removal of those factors require a huge amount of mental and physical practice. There are no shortcuts here. 

 

Faith won't do crap!!

Hmm, I've added faith to the true potential of meditation.. which I am doing all day long.. in a permanent state of Samadhi(Dao).. which is where all ideas bleed into one.. which is what the Tao is obviously.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

If faith means simply believing something because someone told to you to, then I would agree that this very Western understanding of faith has no place in Daoism because Daoism encourages personal experience, participation in the development of further experience -- knowledge through experience.

But the word for faith in Chinese, xin 信, translates in many ways: sincerity, trustworthiness, trust, faith, and also true as in original and pure. While we should always be open to perceive change, Daoism also teaches the removal of doubt -- being of "one mind." This is also xin.

[yugenphoenix]

On 5/25/2018 at 2:56 AM, Gerard said:

 

 

Bagua practice for 10 years, especially in the past 2 where I no longer work and practice 24/7, has reinforced this view.

 

 

 

 

 

What do u do for money for food, bills, etc.? 

[CityHermit!]

From my personal experience, and I wouldn't necessarily use the term faith as much as something else perhaps, I'd apply it towards 3 things. One being overcoming disillusionment and/or nihilism in the face of adversity and hardship. Two would be sticking with a path/goal in the face of competing ones, like say someone wanted to convert you or otherwise draw you away from what you were doing. Three, and maybe this is where I would say faith is more appropriate term than the first two circumstances, would be trusting in Dao in as far as it achieves. What I mean by this last part is getting to a result, or some other thing happening in some way, by virtue of Wu Wei as opposed to some predetermined effort or plan, especially to situations that are not personal to oneself or at least go well beyond one self and one's own lifespan. Like say with the future, that whatever may happen to humanity that Dao persists.

[zerostao]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:16 AM, steve said:

I see faith and belief as opposites.

I don't recall where I first heard this definition, it may have been Watts or Osho.

Either way it's the way I use the terms:

 

Belief is accepting something to be true without direct, personal experience.

Faith is releasing all belief and trusting that was remains as direct experience is truth.

...something like that

 

 

Thank you, Steve, for sharing this understanding of faith and its relation to belief. It is the first time I've heard it like this. It is different than how I thought about faith. After considering this understanding, it is workable for me. I can work with this new facet of faith. I had thought that experience was beyond faith and that I was working a nonfaith-based practice relying on the experience of Tao Yin. Belief is something that I thought I had wadded up and tossed a few years back. I am laughing at myself, at the silly notion I had that experience led to knowing. Knowing is above my pay grade, and I like this new concept of faith. It feels good to have faith restored. Thank you again.

Edited July 14, 2018 by zerostao

[rene]

On 7/13/2018 at 11:19 PM, zerostao said:

Thank you, Steve, for sharing this understanding of faith and its relation to belief. It is the first time I've heard it like this. It is different than how I thought about faith. After considering this understanding, it is workable for me. I can work with this new facet of faith. I had thought that experience was beyond faith and that I was working a nonfaith-based practice relying on the experience of Tao Yin. Belief is something that I thought I had wadded up and tossed a few years back. I am laughing at myself, at the silly notion I had that experience led to knowing. Knowing is above my pay grade, and I like this new concept of faith. It feels good to have faith restored. Thank you again.

 

Ditto that!

 

I have faith in my belief that what I experience is processed according to my nature...which means I may or may not hit the tree next time. Who knows? 

 

[Marblehead]

Beware the trees.  They move in mysterious ways.

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2018-05-25 at 3:16 PM, steve said:

 

Belief is accepting something to be true without direct, personal experience.

Faith is releasing all belief and trusting that was remains as direct experience is truth.

...something like that

 

Well, i’d be wary of trusting direct experience as truth without cumulative knowledge and distilling wisdom from it. It’s like say: never trust your eyes, they are easy to fool. Trust your ears but not the words they recieve. Trust your heart and not what you think it’s telling you. Taste can hide and transform, smell is hard to disguise. Kinda the thing about the five tones deafen the ear and the five colors blind the mind.

 

I’d say there is a boatload of refining, counterchecking and manifesting true nature in both ourselves and our senses before direct experience is to be trusted.

I understand what the quote is aiming at (i think) but i’m still prone to choose to believe this and that than having faith i’m seeing the truth as it is.

[doc benway]

Excellent and important point, Rocky.

It's not my intention to define truth or equate it with experience or perception.

I think the distinction between belief and faith is more about finding balance between conceptual and non-conceptual directions in our spiritual practices.