PK abilities - real or imaginary?

[Daemon]

18 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

The few useful posts in this topic have by now been effectively drowned in irrelevant preaching by the believers....

 

 

That's the nature of religious bulletin boards. Just do your best to ignore the  hard-core believers and concentrate on the possible scientists (in case there might be any).

 

☮️

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Daemon

[Ilovecoffee]

3 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

@Ilovecoffee

The documentary invites medical doctors and scientists only to boost its ratings, "adding credibility" and to earn more money.

Those doctors and scientists come not for free. Not from their own pocket. They are hired workers. 

It is not hard to be a doctor or a scientist, there are some billion of them on the planet.

If Chang had no abilities they had to make it up and then tell him to hide.

May be they signed a contract with him and payed him plenty of money.

Go watch other documentaries about people levitating, eating metal things.

 

3 hours ago, GSmaster said:

There are many shows on television going on like hypnosis, extrasensory contest. There are a lot of experts and medical doctors, illusionists, invited who watch over and say wow, unbelievable.

 

Jim demonstration is even more doubtful

He could not do it by himself

When he did it, it could be a wind flow.

Or even more simple it could be a wire.

The camera shows only limited angle, where JC stands does not see well.

 

18 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

You don't consider that they were there to do the opposite. Legitimize the fraud and fool people like you by saying all the "arguments" above.

 

You can see filming documental movies is pure commercial interest.

 

If they had non-commercial interest they would bring those "evidences" and "research" back to their univerisities and publish it in the scientific journal, and there would be a lot of hype around it.

 

8 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Yeah, best way to make money in 2018. 
Call a group of people who have Ph.D. pay them 500$ each (Ph.D. is not worth anything by 2018)

Stage some circus tricks, from levitation to telekinesis

Create a system that requires 10-20 years of hard work.

Create a legend, I am the only one out of billion with such abilities.

Charge 5.000-100.000 usd for teaching.

Get lost with all the money

JC was a multimillionaire when he stopped contact and those guys believe he never took any money for his work.

 

"If Chang had no abilities they had to make it up and then tell him to hide."

 

The researchers included: the head of the Mind Science Foundation, a Ph.D. in neuroscience, and a medical doctor. They stripped the subject to his shirt and underwear and used a metal detector to check his body for metal. They received an indoor demo, then went outside for a second demo. They assumed some device on the property was causing the effect, so they took the subject to a random location for a third demo.

 

Gregory V. Simpson, Ph.D. is a neuroscientist, formerly the Director of the Dynamic Neuroimaging Laboratory at UCSF, Co-Director, Dynamic Brain Activity Imaging Laboratory at Albert Einstein College of Medicine and a Senior Scientist at the Brain Plasticity Institute.

 

"Jim demonstration is even more doubtful

He could not do it by himself

When he did it, it could be a wind flow.

Or even more simple it could be a wire.

The camera shows only limited angle, where JC stands does not see well."

 

This was a home video of him passing his exam, no scientists or medical doctors were present.  Jim, however, did claim to go to the bathroom and close the door and test it while the yin field was present and claims to have been able to recreate the same result in the bathroom.

 

"JC was a multimillionaire when he stopped contact and those guys believe he never took any money for his work."

 

John became wealthy because of his prawn farm and was oath-bound never to accept money even donations from students or patients.

 

"Call a group of people who have Ph.D. pay them 500$ each (Ph.D. is not worth anything by 2018)

Stage some circus tricks, from levitation to telekinesis

Create a system that requires 10-20 years of hard work."

 

You claim to be able to drink tea with demons, talk to Gods, claim to be a literal God yourself,  claim to raise an army of the undead and create inter-dimensional portals, and exist as a breatharian. While I would have loved to see John come to the USA and go to every major university to prove himself,  the little he did provide us is still better than what you have which is absolutely nothing. We have no evidence at all other than your testimony for your divine status. So please, by all means, keep slinging the mud about how John is a fraud, but at least he volunteered to be investigated by a team of scientists and medical doctors.

[KuroShiro]

5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Last attempt: this topic is not about chi gong, videos, medical issues, magicians, fake, etc. 

 

It's about setting up a simple experiment with an online random number generator, and finding some people willing to test their supposed PK ability. Why make it more difficult than it is?

 

Is an online random number generator a physical system?

 

Psychokinesis (from Greek ψυχή "mind" and κίνησις "movement"), or telekinesis (from τηλε- "far off" and κίνηση "movement" ), is an alleged psychic ability allowing a person to influence a physical system without physical interaction.

 

 

22 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

The few useful posts in this topic have by now been effectively drowned in irrelevant preaching by the believers....

 

 

Belief/not belief is perhaps only in the mind. There seems to be a lot to discover outside the mind.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Daemon said:

 

That's the nature of religious bulletin boards. Just do your best to ignore the  hard-core believers and concentrate on the possible scientists (in case there might be any).

 

☮️

 

 

Why are scientists put on a pedestal?

How would a scientist prove the existence of LOVE?

[Ilovecoffee]

15 minutes ago, Daemon said:

 

That's the nature of religious bulletin boards. Just do your best to ignore the  hard-core believers and concentrate on the possible scientists (in case there might be any).

 

☮️

 

 

Frequently we are called fundamentalists and believers, which is the most offensive attack that can be thrown at us. As a freethinker, I base my beliefs on my own personal observations and the best objective evidence available to me. We are not accepting things on faith, but rather objective evidence, direct observation, and reason. We are open to any other teachers or systems that can provide at least as much objective evidence as John did, but we refuse to accept teachers or teachings without good objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to attempt to rule out fraud. Our position is not one of blind faith and dogma, even though people here love to hurl such accusations.

[Ilovecoffee]

22 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Those are empty names. Like I have said 500$ and the CEO of Brain Research Scientific will come and confirm your an alien in front of camera.

 

 

And where is he now? What was the result of exposure? Sounds like his life got fucked up and he no longer teaches or practicies in public.

 

 

Whenever there is evidence or not, Divine status ain't going nowhere. It does not depend on lowly scrubs like you to believe in it.

 

"Those are empty names."

 

Gregory V. Simpson, Ph.D. is a neuroscientist, formerly the Director of the Dynamic Neuroimaging Laboratory at UCSF, Co-Director, Dynamic Brain Activity Imaging Laboratory at Albert Einstein College of Medicine and a Senior Scientist at the Brain Plasticity Institute.

 

"Whenever there is evidence or not, Divine status ain't going nowhere. It does not depend on lowly scrubs like you to believe in it."

 

Obviously, it matters to you or you wouldn't be here on this forum continuously making claims about your powers and divinity.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Ilovecoffee

[Mudfoot]

40 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

Why are scientists put on a pedestal?

Scientists are priests to the new God. 

40 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

How would a scientist prove the existence of LOVE?

We would operationalize it with a combination of behaviour (that we can observe), create a form you can fill that estimates your thoughts and reactions, and take a blood sample for oxytocin. 

 

And then, love is defined as being of those components, and we can measure it which proves it exist. 😁 

[Daemon]

54 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

Why are scientists put on a pedestal?

How would a scientist prove the existence of LOVE?

 

 

The scientific approach would be to ask someone who puts scientists (or anyone else) on a pedestal (instead of asking me).

As far as I know, science is unable to disprove the existence of Love and because (as a scientist) I'm not stupid enough to attempt to prove Its existence using the scientific method (which would be the wrong tool for the job), again you'll need to put that question to someone else.

 

☮️

[vonkrankenhaus]

Scientists cannot prove the existence of Qi because they don't know what it is to look for it.

 

All Qi is - movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

It is not a "substance" or "thing" - not even a "mystical" one.

 

In electricity, the polarity is positive and negative electric poles, and it is electrons that are moving.

 

In thermodynamics the polarity is hot and cold, and it is air that is moving.

 

Voidisyinyang has mentioned several other relevant systems of polarity regarding Neigong and bodily functioning.

 

"Mystify" it all you want - but that's a silly thing to do over such basic phenomena.

 

Go ahead - influence a random number generator with "it".

 

 

 

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

[voidisyinyang]

12 hours ago, steve said:

  Removing them after the fact invalidates the results. Removing them before hand may completely invalidate the already borderline statistical significance.

 

 

The study is for "chronic pain" so you keep harping about the statistics as if not including the subject of not chronic pain then invalidates the study.

 

 

Quote

 

Eligibility criteria included (1) age 18 years or older; (2) pain experienced for at least

3 months; (3) reported severity of !3on a numeric analog scale for pain ranging from

0 to 10; (4) no active plans to change the pain management strategy over the next 2 to

3 months;

 

 

First you implied that 3 months was not enough to be chronic pain so I pointed out that about 95% or so were your standard of at least 6 months.

Now you are claiming that a study of chronic pain should include people who have pain that is not chronic? haha.

Are you even a medical doctor? Because the Mayo Clinic is considered possibly the top research medical hospital in the world. Dr. Ann Vincent is a Mayo Clinic doctor and she led the study. If she says the "results were especially impressive" at reducing chronic pain - I think she is accurate.

[voidisyinyang]

13 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

 

So the two masters agreed to do just four treatments knowing that four treatments is not enough to get a result? 

 

13 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

It is true, as the authors state, that with more subjects they might have got a statistically signifikant result. 

 

Yeah the author, Dr. Ann Vincent stated, as I quoted, the results were "especially impressive."

Quote

Compared to the EAT group, EQT participants had a significant decrease in pain intensity in the 2nd (p = 0.003), 3rd (p < 0.001), and 4th weeks of treatment (p = 0.003).

As for Placebo - that is a whole other discussion. I had that already on the "american atheists" website set up by some undergraduate chumps. haha.

Yeah I mentioned this - five years ago.

[wandelaar]

And the voidisyinyang-show goes on and on. No matter what the topic is about, or who is listening....

[Nungali]

 

7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

The few useful posts in this topic have by now been effectively drowned in irrelevant preaching by the believers....

 

 

 

Just like non-believers that fear a positive result     

[Ilovecoffee]

5 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Scientists cannot prove the existence of Qi because they don't know what it is to look for it.

 

All Qi is - movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

It is not a "substance" or "thing" - not even a "mystical" one.

 

In electricity, the polarity is positive and negative electric poles, and it is electrons that are moving.

 

In thermodynamics the polarity is hot and cold, and it is air that is moving.

 

Voidisyinyang has mentioned several other relevant systems of polarity regarding Neigong and bodily functioning.

 

"Mystify" it all you want - but that's a silly thing to do over such basic phenomena.

 

Go ahead - influence a random number generator with "it".

 

 

 

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

 

"Scientists cannot prove the existence of Qi because they don't know what it is to look for it."

 

Ultimately either a master can show abilities that can be physically observed or they can't. Not being able to explain how something works, doesn't mean you cannot objectively document it occurring.

 

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Frequently we are called fundamentalists and believers, which is the most offensive attack that can be thrown at us.

 

As a freethinker, I base my beliefs on my own personal observations and the best objective evidence available to me. We are not accepting things on faith, but rather objective evidence, direct observation, and reason. We are open to any other teachers or systems that can provide at least as much objective evidence as John did, but we refuse to accept teachers or teachings without good objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to attempt to rule out fraud. Our position is not one of blind faith and dogma, even though people here love to hurl such accusations.

 

You base your beliefs  on your own personal observations , yet being called a believer is the most offensive attack that can be thrown at you  ?

 

Okay then  .

 

....    not that I expect any sense or internal consistency  from these intrusive and subversive posts anyway .

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

 

Is an online random number generator a physical system?

 

Psychokinesis (from Greek ψυχή "mind" and κίνησις "movement"), or telekinesis (from τηλε- "far off" and κίνηση "movement" ), is an alleged psychic ability allowing a person to influence a physical system without physical interaction.

 

 

 

Belief/not belief is perhaps only in the mind. There seems to be a lot to discover outside the mind.

 

 

 

Why are scientists put on a pedestal?

How would a scientist prove the existence of LOVE?

 

 

Love isnt a physical system .  So has nothing to do with  PK .

 

You want to physically manipulate love   ' from a distance'    ... thats more like New Age Witchcraft        

 

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

15 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Just like non-believers that fear a positive result     

 

It's the believers that are wrecking this topic. I wouldn't have started this topic if I wasn't open to new evidence.

[Ilovecoffee]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

You base your beliefs  on your own personal observations , yet being called a believer is the most offensive attack that can be thrown at you  ?

 

Okay then  .

 

....    not that I expect any sense or internal consistency  from these intrusive and subversive posts anyway .

 

 

Religious people base their beliefs on faith and the personal testimony of others. Rational people base their beliefs on observation and objective evidence. There is no reason to make this more complicated than it needs to be Nungali.

[voidisyinyang]

1 minute ago, wandelaar said:

 

It's the believers that are wrecking this topic. I wouldn't have started this topic if I wasn't open to new evidence.

Author of 'Qigong Meets Quantum Physics', Imke studied Nuclear Physics and Particle Physics and became interested in Qigong after she experienced a dramatic healing in Beijing. During her teens she had questions such as, 'What operates behind visible reality?' and 'How was the Universe Built?' She explains how Qigong and Quantum Physics meet, Non-local interactions, the Observer effect and Entanglement. 'All things only exist because they arise together with their complementary opposite'. 'There is no such thing as an isolated particle; can there be such a thing as an isolated human being?'. 'The oneness of emptiness and the world of apparent phenomena is the last secret on the path to understanding reality'.

 

[Ilovecoffee]

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Love isnt a physical system .  So has nothing to do with  PK .

 

You want to physically manipulate love   ' from a distance'    ... thats more like New Age Witchcraft        

 

 

 

 

 

Wasn't Voidisyinyang the same person who claimed to do "love" at a distance, but converting his jing to electrochemical energy made him smell like poop?  Or was that a different guy?

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, wandelaar said:

 

It's the believers that are wrecking this topic. I wouldn't have started this topic if I wasn't open to new evidence.

 

Yes.  But in some cases both believers and non believers act the same way ;  believers  from fear of exposure, non-believers from fear of proof.

 

I understand its frustrating for you,  but it is also interesting to observe .  It doesnt worry me as I spent many many years practising magick in a system of 'scientific illuminism', that is , the principles of scientific investigation are applied to magical experiments. I had no fear of success OR failure ... it was about observation , not confirmation .

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Wasn't Voidisyinyang the same person who claimed to do "love" at a distance, but converting his jing to electrochemical energy made him smell like poop?  Or was that a different guy?

Check out Tantric Mongoose - he made a career out of that ability.

 

Where's his "million"

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Religious people base their beliefs on faith and the personal testimony of others. Rational people base their beliefs on observation and objective evidence. There is no reason to make this more complicated than it needs to be Nungali.

 

  

 

Hilarious !     From a guy that could just have posted   " Okay, I will give it a shot . "

 

You guys ! 

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, Ilovecoffee said:

 

Wasn't Voidisyinyang the same person who claimed to do "love" at a distance, but converting his jing to electrochemical energy made him smell like poop?  Or was that a different guy?

 

 

Same guy , yes, thats why you should take everything he says very seriously         but I wouldnt exactly call it  LOVE  at a distance .        

 

It was in McDonalds  I think .    Who knows where the poop smell came from ?

 

I went to McDonalds myself the other day, at the drive through speaker I said  " One cheeseburger please."    When I got to the window a very young lady asked me  " What was your order again ? "

 

I said   " One Cheeseburger. "

 

She said ;    " Awesome! "  

 

  

 

- true story.     ...    ( no one had an orgasm though )  . 

[KuroShiro]

18 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Love isnt a physical system .  So has nothing to do with  PK .

 

You want to physically manipulate love   ' from a distance'    ... thats more like New Age Witchcraft       

 

You don't seem to have understood my post.

I don't understand yours.

[Nungali]

8 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

Check out Tantric Mongoose - he made a career out of that ability.

 

Where's his "million"

 

 

Ohhhhh   .... come ON man !     That doesnt count  ! 

 

 

He is a black guy  !