SlowRiot Posted May 30, 2018 Hi there. I'm 33 yo guy from Canada, born in France (so, sorry for english mistakes i guess !) Very glad to find this place ! I've been into buddhism, especially zen for a few years and it naturally led me to daoism lately. TTC and Zuangzi have been incredible read for sure, and i try as much as possible to bring into my life what i've learn. I try to meditate everyday (standing meditation and zazen), and i've been practicing qigong since january. There is for sure a real and really important feeling of harmony and peace coming from this practice (cliché i guess but still!), and it sure bringa lot of balance for my everyday life. But still : i keep on struggling with one big obstacle : lust. Not very unlikely maybe ! But how hard to overcome... Lately it became a real struggle, enough for me to write here after trying to find numerous advice on the world wibe web, in books and so on. The month of may was like a test : i decided on may the 1st to overcome my struggle with lust (porn, strong sexual thought....you name it) and so far it has been a big, bitter failure. I find me many many times deciding that "today is the day", and then lossing it again just the day after. It's just like if i became possessed, well i'm not religious at all but the idea works quite well : the thought become more strong just as i stay to be strong against them. I'm quite lost. I know it is a big obstacle to overcome but it seems i fail miserably on my way to do so. On one hand, i think that maybe going "cold turkey" is not a good thing : after all it's not all black or white and even daoism teach us that... There is a story from Lie-Tseu, of 2 brothers with one being very lusty, and buddhism has some very sexual character too.... One the other hand, i know i have to manage my strong sexual energy if i don't want to make things bad in my relationship, and i'm tired of trying and losing... I guess my post here could be yet another battle in this great war. Thanks you a lot for reading me. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted May 31, 2018 Hello, SlowRiot, and welcome. Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go. Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started. For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day. Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you, Fa Xin and the TDB team Welcome SlowRiot, I too, came to Taoism from Buddhism, your in good company here! Lots of both In regards to the lust issue, I would take it small steps at a time. Don't suppress it. It's natural to have these urges and once you accept them and don't try to run or hide from them, it will get easier. The more you fight it, the more you feed it. You're in control. You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started. May you enjoy your time here. Fa Xin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted May 31, 2018 Hi SlowRiot. Welcome. Lust. I remember her. Long time ago though. But remember when working with this situation, there is the physical and the mental aspects to consider. Work on the mental aspects because you can't do much about the physical aspects - they are instinctual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted May 31, 2018 My suggestion is to not make your practice about sex or the lack of sex. In the beginning many have an increase of vitality. It is possible to turn this energy into what animates the body (this happens any way) and achieve goals we otherwise would not have the energy to achieve. Vitality is not only what many refer to as sexual energy that is a very small part of our vitality. With desires if we TRY to cut them off sometimes it creates more. When full we do not desire more. When harmful habits take their toll on our bodies and in our lives we will simply not desire to do that anymore. Life is not perfect Live and let live 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SlowRiot Posted May 31, 2018 Thanks a lot ! And for not judging me, i do that a lot because of how powerful some bad habits are and how weak i can be. Feel free to share some strategy you know for overcoming this urge... There are sur lots of x rated material available everywhere nowedays, i suppose one can see more sex in an hour than ancient folks could see un a lifetime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic4z Posted May 31, 2018 I wonder if, trying to focus your attention on something else, some other goal you want to achieve, may help? Rather than perpetual self-talk along the lines of "I must not think about SEX. I must not think about SEX"! Also, I find it helps, no matter what my failings are (or what I think my failings are), not to beat myself up about it. Be gentle with yourself. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) It's such a challenge to face. I haven't been victorious, but won minor battles in this a couple of times. I've found that lust works like the snowball effect...you get minor exposures to sexual or attractive things, and those gradually build up and lust becomes stronger. So the trick is not necessarily to fight lust head on, which ends up being like repression and is psychologically harmful...the trick is to cut it off at the source by choosing what you place your attention on. Let's say you're watching TV, and a beautiful woman appears and is looking seductive. You have the choice to keep watching, or to look at something else during that time. If you keep watching, lust will end up developing stronger later on and eventually it becomes hard to control. If you look at woodworking magazine or something, lust simply won't get generated. So yeah, basically distracting yourself from things that generate lust onto other things that don't...that's one method. Another is that sometimes people use masturbation to go to sleep...or else if they don't, night time is just naturally a time when we're more in our thoughts, and that can lead to lust. So a solution is double pronged: 1) to have worked hard enough throughout the day that your body is tired and wants to pass out. 2) read fiction stories that distract your mind until you're ready to sleep. This tends to really help stop the night time masturbation issue, and prevents it becoming a time of going toward lust. This being said...these are just little tricks. The drive to procreate, or even to experience the bliss of ejaculation, is thought by some to be the strongest force of nature. I think it's best to keep that in mind and not be too hard on ourselves about "failing"...but that's just my view. PS - I also think that making love in a relationship is just fine, no need to curtail that if it's not excessive. Dual cultivation! Edited June 1, 2018 by Aetherous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted June 1, 2018 Hi Slow Riot, Some thoughts... For now, I`d disentangle your enthusiasm for Taoism from how your sexuality is or is not working in your life. Tackle these two aspects of life separately rather than seeing one as an obstacle to the other. Ultimately, of course, everything is connected -- I get that. But making changes to the way you do sex in your life is challenging enough without telling yourself you`re not doing well with your spiritual aspirations if you continue to experience erotic challenges. So if you`re enjoying reading the Taoist classics then really give yourself over to the joy of that learning and contemplation. There are lots of threads on the subject here and very knowledgable Bums to conversate with. Don`t allow any sense of not doing well sexually to poison all your good feeling about what your exploring in other areas of your life. As far as the sexual stuff goes...whew...maybe I`m projecting but I`ll bet there`s a lot to that story. Much of it you probably have chosen not to share online -- rightly and wisely in my opinion. Probably my favorite sexuality book is The Erotic Mind by Jack Morin. His book talks very intelligently about how a person can best go about changing sexual behavior. LL 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted June 1, 2018 hmnn.. you know gun control isn't so much about banning guns as much as setting intelligent regulations. What does this have to do with the OP? idk Yes, I do. One way to control is to regulate. Instead of a straight ban, perhaps setting 2 days a week to go to the firing range. That will be the time for 'lustful' thoughts. Otherwise, when they arise, command your mind, not now, not yet. Try to avoid places that trigger them. Not easy, but possible. Do what you can, find a skillful solution you can live with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 1, 2018 Nice play on words with "gun control" and "trigger". Strange brew - lust for women and gun control. Our mind works in strange ways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted June 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Marblehead said: Nice play on words with "gun control" and "trigger". Strange brew - lust for women and gun control. Our mind works in strange ways. I just work with whatever metaphor sticks its finger in my socket. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) Welcome to TDB. When ever you get randy just meditate on the Void for several minutes. This easily alchemizes the energy. If your involved in a romantic relationship you may consider switching over to Karezza. Best of luck. Edited June 2, 2018 by StormHealer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SlowRiot Posted June 2, 2018 Many thanks to all, a lot of good avices to think about. I wonder if there is something like being "over sexual" from the beginning or if we are only the product of our past experiences. I remember having some thougts that might be see as horny at a young age. Not that i am a sort of sexual pervert, i don't roam up the streets drooling and all, i swear ! But sexual energy sure flows a lot in my life, with its share of fantasies that i may not do in real life, nor just ignore (ok i should work on that too). I just don't know about totally ignoring or "running away" from every piece of sexual imagery on tv and all. I always had a grudge against the whole puritanism thing in christianism and in most of western societies. I don't think that a naked body should be something dangerous, or that i souldn't see it as beautiful if i don't want to damage my own virtue. Once again, i may be totally wrong here, i just don't want to accept something that doesn't seem to be motivated by logic but by shame or guilt. I see Daoism as far more liberal on these issues as it doesn't appear to force you in a certain way of thinkg (or not thinking), and doesn't seem to condemn all sensual pleasure. Of course knowing what is to much is a key element here, just as seeing when a natural inclination is becoming a problem... But that also raise some issues on morality, after all what is normal for one person may well be totally weird (or worst) to someone else. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted June 2, 2018 Don't overthink it....just natures way of getting you to go out and make copies of yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 7:28 PM, Marblehead said: Nice play on words with "gun control" and "trigger". Good morning Dada-da, Orgasm without ejaculation pertains to - the firing of blanks on some high less wet terrain? I am not playing with words - if you know what I mean. If you do not, please don't target me with questions. Anyway - I am taking cover. A great weekend - fire away. - LimA 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 3, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 6:03 AM, SlowRiot said: i keep on struggling with one big obstacle : lust. Hi SlowRiot, What you are going through approximates close to my own right of passage. When it comes to sex, the right of passage may push/pull us to higher grounds for loftier purposes. 'Lust' and 'love' are intimately linked thus: I knew that I had crossed the line when in the midst of passion - compassion surfaced. Think through your situation per a road less traveled. You have come across to me as a person with a higher purpose from the way you write. Lust/love are found on a same branch: I am positive your rose will bloom in sunshine and rain - take a walk thus. - LimA 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted June 3, 2018 8 hours ago, SlowRiot said: I just don't know about totally ignoring or "running away" from every piece of sexual imagery on tv and all. I always had a grudge against the whole puritanism thing in christianism and in most of western societies. I don't think that a naked body should be something dangerous, or that i souldn't see it as beautiful if i don't want to damage my own virtue. Once again, i may be totally wrong here, i just don't want to accept something that doesn't seem to be motivated by logic but by shame or guilt. My suggestions were simply methods for people who are trying to not be lustful (basically, people who are aiming for celibacy on the spiritual path)...it's not advice for everyone. Has nothing to do with disdain for nudity, repressed sexuality, shame, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Limahong said: Eh...I`m not so sure. In most long-term monogamous relationships there`s one partner who wants sex more than the other. Just for fun, let`s suppose you`re a woman with a high sex drive paired with a low sex drive male. (Not the way society usually imagines things but it happens often enough.) Would such a woman consider it an act of abandonment, disloyalty and greed if her man did the inner work it takes to consciously develop desire and, excuse my french, fuck? I don`t think so. Everyone always wants to give lust the short end of the stick. It`s always love, love, love. I do this myself and I want to stop, to resist that tired anti-lust refrain. To be against lust is to be against life. If we have to be against something (and do we?), there are so many other better candidates -- unconsciousness, compulsion, stinginess of spirit. Edited June 3, 2018 by liminal_luke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 3, 2018 4 hours ago, liminal_luke said: To be against lust is to be against life. Hi liminal_luke, 'Lust' is part of life - it coexists intimately with 'love' as found in a branch of a rose plant. Like yin and yang - they are inseparable in Nature. - LimA 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
once.yin.once.yang Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) Hey, Hi! Your post is sooo sincere: "But still : i keep on struggling with one big obstacle : lust." Guess what? The same thing men call lust (sexual desire) is what females call "Love" (affection, feelings). In the end of the day all of us do the same thing (something in between those two imaginary notions). Lust or Love, no matter how you name it, it can be used for cultivation purposes too. Amor Magister Optimus est. (Love is the supreme teacher) Edited June 3, 2018 by once.yin.once.yang :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SlowRiot Posted June 3, 2018 4 hours ago, once.yin.once.yang said: Guess what? The same thing men call lust (sexual desire) is what females call "Love" (affection, feelings). Not so sure about this... Depends on who you're you talking about i guess ! As far as i know women are absolutely not stranger to lust, maybe it's just that society is far more okay with lusty behaviours from men... And many lusty thoughts have very little to do with love, if i try and be honest ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danddand Posted June 3, 2018 Lust and love are different things. I think one type of lust is a thing when I see woman and I want to make babies because well I am happy heterosexual . This is sexual attraction, you can have lust for some food it's nice feeling when you have feeling "I want to make babies with this pretty woman" but problem is it's not long-term for sure. Same like big breasts and small breasts topic. Only difference is you see big breasts, obviously . But when you are actually with this person you don't give a damn when you want to love this person and your face is on her chest. Then big breasts are actually long-term problem, they can make problems to her how heavy they are and problems if I want to make love. So for me when I don't looking on woman body for the first time and for the last time even "flat chest" is awesome! One my theory is why lots of men like "big breasts". Because if the woman has big breasts she might be sexually confident and that's so turning on. Ye this is secret of it. If the woman who I find attractive would love her body I really don't give a damn how big/small the breasts are (well smaller breasts are more attractive for me in long term, I would be pretty pissed when big breasts would cause health problems) I would be in heaven (and she too ) Little by the way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, danddand said: If the woman who I find attractive would love her body I really don't give a damn ... I would be in heaven (and she too ) Hi danddand, Insightful. More aligned insights... Little by the way. More on the way? - LimA 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
once.yin.once.yang Posted June 5, 2018 On 6/3/2018 at 7:01 PM, SlowRiot said: Not so sure about this... Depends on who you're you talking about i guess ! As far as i know women are absolutely not stranger to lust, maybe it's just that society is far more okay with lusty behaviours from men... And many lusty thoughts have very little to do with love, if i try and be honest ! OK, May be you're right. I shouldn't have used a gender stereotype. See, there are so many quotes like that; "Men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love" . The main point is that the energy flow (up and down through n. vagus) in both sexes can be used for cultivation purposes. Simply put: when it is directed down we get the mundane common orgasm, when it is reversed and goes up (very difficult task, going against the flow) we get nirvana. Let's call it orgasm from above, if you don't mind. The mundane common orgasm is called "the small death" because you're actually out of the picture for let's say 0.4 seconds. Here is what I know from my own experience: it is impossible to get the higher form of fleshy pleasure without some form sincere feelings. Mantak Chia explains exactly that better than me. (I don't like him nor his books but he is right) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 5, 2018 4 hours ago, once.yin.once.yang said: The main point is that the energy flow... in both sexes can be used for cultivation purposes. Hi once.yin.once.yang, The energy flow is true - but let it flows up more than out. Experience it yourself first-hand - for cultivation. - LimA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
