What is Yang Fire ?

[Taoist Texts]

What is Yang Fire ?

[Mudfoot]

Come one, you know that noone ever answers a direct question about Nei Dan terminology here on TDB. 

 

At best, there will be a small dance-along before the thread goes south. 

[Mudfoot]

Except Void, who explains them at length. 

[Harmen]

As I understand it it is a description of rising yang that needs to be balanced with retreating yin at the correct time(-ing) to find the right 'heating' that enables the forming of the jindan 金丹. I found the best description of this delicate process in the 中國道教大辭典:

 

指坐功時，體內的氣、自尾闊升上泥丸，乃在背脊一路，名為進陽火，自泥丸降下氣海，乃在胸前一路，名為退陰符。以升為進， 以降為退。又凡後升之時，身中自覺熱氣蒸騰，乃至前降之時， 則熱氣漸歸冷靜。此以熱氣盛為進陽火， 熱氣平為退陰符。（陳櫻寧〈孫不二女功內丹次第詩注〉） 。

 

I can relate to this because 凡後升之時，身中自覺熱氣蒸騰，乃至前降之時， 則熱氣漸歸冷靜 is what I sometimes experience during my (far too few) meditation sessions (although in my case the sensation does not start at point 氣海 but lower) even though my goal is not to arrive at the 金丹. In other words, yanghuo to me is not so much a substance or anything but a process of rising yang (complemented by descending yin) that can be felt or experienced. This process is often depicted with the hexagram sequence of 2, 24, 19, 11 etc. There exists a picture of these hexagrams with the human body in the centre but I can't find it. Anyway, Liu Yiming elaborates on these hexagrams and more in his description of the 陽火陰符六陰六陽全圖, a description that is partly translated by Cleary in I Ching Mandalas (p. 108-109; picture of 陽火陰符六陰六陽全圖 on p. 39).

[Taoist Texts]

26 minutes ago, Harmen said:

In other words, yanghuo to me is not so much a substance or anything but a process of rising yang (complemented by descending yin) that can be felt or experienced.

Fantastisch. Thank you.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Come one, you know that noone ever answers a direct question about Nei Dan terminology here on TDB. 

We have a first. Probably hell froze over or something.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Taoist Texts

[Mudfoot]

@Harmen You just erased one of my catch phrases.

Thanks, hope I will see more of that happening here. 

[Harmen]

37 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

@Harmen You just erased one of my catch phrases.

 

Sorry about that. Even worse, it might happen again. I wasn't aware that I erased something but maybe ignorance is bliss in this matter. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

When transforming True Qi into Original Essence, one must use the wind to support the fire. One must use the true intent to concentrate on the entering into the life palace, the Qi-point’s centre. Jing, Qi and Spirit unify. Original Qi entering Essence turns it into Original Essence. 

 

Control and grasp the True Qi and the True Qi then will move downwards and change into Original Essence. It is incredibly precious and its loss is the loss of life at this given moment in time. If one is without the breathing and not using the wind to support fire refinement. fire not melting metal, the Original Essence will inevitably not be able to re-transform into Original Qi, and it cannot return to the abode of the Kun furnace, its original palace in the centre.

[Boundlesscostfairy]

You have to use the Jinn via the middle dantien.. fire is what comes out..

 

But remember Jinn(black like rubber or asphault) is the base..

[voidisyinyang]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:03 AM, Taoist Texts said:

What is Yang Fire ?

 

Yes :

 

Quote

If the Yin [Water-Kidney] is deficient the Yang [Fire-Heart] 'flies away’ we have 'Qi Wild’

• Yuan Qi or jing-shen: Original Breath of the Fire of Life which is itself between the Kidneys or inside the power of Water pdf
• Yuan Qi is between the Kidneys (like the Ming Men). Interestingly, it calls the Yuan Qi the shen
• Relationship of Kidneys to Heart in Taoist alchemy pdf
• Michael P. Garofalo on Ming Meng as Valley of the Spirit Mystic Pass between the Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen kidney-heart energy

I had to dig up my old blog that someone saved on their tumblr site... thanks!

 

This is what I suffer from since I overused my psychic energy.

So I search the quote to get the source:

 

The Relationship between the Kidney and the Heart in Chinese ...

https://www.dragonrises.edu/.../The-Relationship-of-the-Kidney-and-Heart-in-Chinese...

If the Yin [Water-Kidney] is deficient the Yang [Fire-. Heart] `flies away' we have the 'separation of yin and yang and the `Qi Wild' condition. This manifests as.

 

pdf link.

 

enjoy.

 

 

 

[Phoenix3]

Is qi that rises up the du channel yang fire?

 

How can it be yang if the lower part of the body is yin and the upper part of the body is yang? It would make more sense (when you visualise the hexagrams) that the lowest part of the body is fully yin, and that which rises up the du channel from it is still yin, with increasing amounts of yang?

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

Is qi that rises up the du channel yang fire?

 

How can it be yang if the lower part of the body is yin and the upper part of the body is yang? It would make more sense (when you visualise the hexagrams) that the lowest part of the body is fully yin, and that which rises up the du channel from it is still yin, with increasing amounts of yang?

 

Is qi that rises up the du channel yang fire?

 

How can it be yang if the lower part of the body is yin and the upper part of the body is yang? It would make more sense (when you visualise the hexagrams) that the lowest part of the body is fully yin, and that which rises up the du channel from it is still yin, with increasing amounts of yang?

 

Yes it is confusing. I was researching this yesterday - rereading Taoist  Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality. I did a blog post on it.

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/06/how-quick-fire-activates-positive-fire.html

 

Only I called it "positive fire" - as the book calls it - meaning Yang Fire.

How Quick Fire activates Positive Fire (positive vitality) or Yuan Qi that is the secret of the small universe meditation

So the Yang Fire does go up the governing or control channel in the spine but it first has to be CREATED alchemically.

 

 

Quote

 

For the positive yang cannot accumulate without aid from the negative yin; hence vitality should join the generative force to become fire.

Only the eyes are positive whereas the rest of the body is negative. It is these positive eyes which will overcome the whole negative body so that gradually the positive principle (yang) will develop daily while the negative principle (yin) will decrease correspondingly. As time passes the whole body will become positive. This is what the saying means by: ‘If the negative principle is not entirely wiped out immortality cannot be achieved.’ This also is the retreat of negative fire.

For the cultivation of nature alone ensures only the descent of positive fire [yang qi as  yuan qi]

 

 

 

So the Lower Tan T'ien does not exist for most people. The Jing-Shen is "hidden" and brought forth or created alchemically as Shen-Jing or shen under the jing creates Qi. This is why kundalini literally means Fire in the hole in the Earth.

The upper body is yang as Heaven - while the lower body is Yin as Earth.

This is called the four yin-yang with the Heart as yang and Heaven and the Kidneys as yin and Earth.

 

But alchemically - the Fire of the Heart as Yang is the Yuan Shen from the Yuan Qi of the middle tan t'ien.

 

O.K. so alchemically this is the eternal process of putting the Shen as Fire into the Earth to turn the Water into Air (qi).

 

So the alchemical meditation starts with the yang of the upper body and it has to "descend" - But just as importantly the Water has to be raised above the fire - and this is what the Quick Fire breathing does. So you use the Post-Natal fire (breathing) to activate the pre-natal fire as Heaven.

 

So the Lower Tan T'ien contains the alchemical pill as the shen under the jing - which creates yuan qi.

 

But the lower body, as was pointed out in this thread, is the Yin Qi - and so for the golden Yang Shen to develop - then this Yin Qi emanates a golden light as the yin qi is increasingly converted to yang or yuan qi.

 

So first you have to restore the yin qi so it fills the body - and so you have the energy of a 16 year old full of generative force. Most people never even achieve this first step. That then means the lower tan t'ien is fully activated with the fire but - now the Cauldron as the Middle Tan t'ien is activated as the Yuan Qi.

 

So you have to maintain celibacy - which is difficult - because everyone is going to want your energy. So the Eyes are the only positive Yang aspect of the body - which means the eyes constantly send out the yang qi (the yuan qi) from the heart. But with the Eyes open - then Heaven and Earth are SEPARATED - and so the Heart and Kidneys are also not mixed alchemically. So by closing the eyes and rotating them - the left eye is the yin qi of the liver and the right eye is the yang qi of the lungs - this is the dragon and tiger.

 

So then only by using Quick Fire as deep strong breathing and rotating the eyes - do you then "cure" or bake the bricks - or turn the lead and mercury into gold - meaning turn yin and yang qi into yuan qi of the heart.

 

So Yuan Qi is "undivided yin-yang qi." If there is impurity - then the lower tan t'ien is deconverted back with the separation of yin and yang. Yang qi has substance and so is the real lead of the white tiger. Yin qi does not have substance and so it is the mercury. Yang qi is the ionized lecithin - and so is the fluid within the vapor. Yin qi is in the blood and so is the vapor in the fluid. So the alchemical pill is a mixture but the Qi itself is Pressure Energy - and so creates a strong "basketball" anti-gravity pressure force.

 

So when Yuan Qi is activated then the Yuan Shen manifests - and so the Yang Fire is both the Yuan Qi and the Yuan Shen. Then Yuan Shen is yellow light that is seen externally - and so it is the Yellow Sprouts as the Middle Tan T'ien.

 

But to fully open the third eye - then you have to keep building up the Yuan Qi by building up the yin qi - and so any lower emotional energy as yin qi has to be cleansed and purified back into yuan qi - constantly. You can not leak energy either physically or psychically.

 

And... so the Yuan Qi is the "one" - meaning it is also the Emptiness as the source of the Shen. So the Yuan Qi actually guides the Shen - from the Future. This was referred to in this thread - meaning that when you build up a Yang Shen you are also restoring the Yuan Jing - and this is called "yin matter" (alchemically) - and it is actually from the future - virtual quasi-matter. So to convert the yin qi into yuan qi means to have the Shen or Light get turned around - and this is the relativistic mass of light from the future - the virtual photons that turn matter into mass.

 

So this process is eternal - as listening - the formless awareness - also called Fa Shen - or the Absolute Void that radiates light.

 

So we store the Yuan Qi in the lower Tan T'ien but originally it was united - pre-natally or pre-heaven - through the heart. And so through the heart again we access the formless awareness of the Cosmic Qi - that is also Yuan Qi - when the body is filled with the yin qi and the yuan qi is activated.

 

So just as dragon and tiger "copulate" or mix - then since Light does not experience space and time - the Light has zero rest mass - and so it is eternally being guided by the Yuan Qi as formless awareness. This is called Shen-Qi. So as I quote on my blog:

 

 

Quote

In Daoist meditation the trigram Kan represents the Kidneys and Dantian. Kan is full in the middle (it has a solid yang line in the middle). The yang line in the center indicates that there is a true yang-fire within yin-water. Li represents the heart and chest. Li is empty in the middle. This symbolizes the hidden true yin-water within yang-fire. Normally, fire is light and rises to the chest and water is heavy and sinks to Dantian. This is the post-heaven state whose trigram configuration moves temporally from birth to death. However if fire is brought beneath water, they mutually restrain each other and interact. This creates steam and condensation which is a rarefied energy. Then the middle lines of the trigrams switch places and the Qian trigram and Kun trigrams (Hexagram 11: Tai) are formed creating the original pre-heaven state, which in Daoist beliefs leads to stopping of the temporal movement and therefore “immortality”....It is known that the two nostrils under the nose are for respiration. This is because they can correctly grasp Heaven and Earth. In exhalation one’s own internal Yuan Qi exits. In inhalation, Heaven and Earth’s correct (positive) qi  from outside, enters. When the body is strong and healthy, it is possible to take in this correct qi of Heaven and Earth, so that one’s lifespan can be lengthened. If the Jing Qi is week and feeble, the correct qi  of Heaven and Earth will disperse and escape with exhalation, the body’s Yuan Qi (Original Qi) will not return and instead will be taken by Heaven and Earth. Everyone fails to understand that qi is the true medicine for prolonging life and cannot find the gate to enter....In the Wu Ji state, the nose develops first, and then the two eyes. The spiritual qi of the eyes comes from the brain. The manifestation of intelligence in the brain comes is generated by the heart.... If the body and form are uneasy and the heart-mind moves, then the spirit will not enter the qi and the body’s qi will be consumed and dispersed. Then one’s nature will be confused and will lack understanding. Therefore it is said that the body’s spirit must not exit.  

 

General Discussion of the Medicine Collecting Method.  excerpted from The True Transmission of Ba Gua Zhang 八卦拳真传 Ba Gua Zhang Zhen Chuan by Sun Xi Kun 孙锡 堃

https://www.internalartsinternational.com/free/sun-xi-kun-daoism-part-iv-general-discussion-medicine-collecting-method-2/

 

and

 

Quote

The gate of the Mysterious-Female is called the root of Heaven and Earth. It is unceasing and continuous, and its operation never wears out.

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/ruyao_jing_1.html

 

So why is it called the Mysterious-Female if is it Yang Qi as Yuan Qi?

 

Because alchemically the Positive Fire as Yang Qi has an inner "Female" that must descend while the Earth as yin has an inner "male" that must ascend.

 

Quote

It can be said that the ancestral cavity is the mysterious entrance that humanity must pass through during self-cultivation, but the mysterious entrance is not inside the body, and the ancestral cavity is not outside the body.

 

But this process takes "place" in the 5th dimension that is non-local - as TIME - as listening or logical inference.

http://qianfengdaoismuk.weebly.com/daoist-meditation-stills-and-calms-the-mind.html

 

Quote

You must unify your will (concentrate yourself). Do not listen to it with your ears but rather listen to it with your mind. Do not listen to it with your mind, but rather listen to it with your qi. ...Qi however is something that is empty and waits for things. Only the Dao gathers where it is empty.

 

Zhuang Zhou, Zhuangzi chapter 4

 

The heart is called Yi because when intent moves, spirit is agitated; qi is dispersed. Qi is the Mother of spirit; Spirit is the child of qi.

So Yang Shen creates yuan jing. Yin qi creates yang qi - also called "positive generative force" or "positive vitality" or positive fire or prenatal vitality (yuan qi). Yuan qi activates Yuan Shen which is still a Yin Shen. The yin qi also has yin shen. So the Hun Soul of the liver is a yin shen and the Po Soul of the lungs is a yin shen.

 

So the spirit of the Earth is a Yin spirit but as the yin qi is converted to yuan qi - then white-yellow light of the Moon becomes Golden as the Yang shen.

Is qi that rises up the du channel yang fire?

 

How can it be yang if the lower part of the body is yin and the upper part of the body is yang? It would make more sense (when you visualise the hexagrams) that the lowest part of the body is fully yin, and that which rises up the du channel from it is still yin, with increasing amounts of yang?

This is what is being referred to - the golden light of the Yang Shen is created from the Yuan Jing by converting the yin qi into yuan qi.

Yin qi has no substance while Yang qi has substance as the alchemical pill since it creates yuan jing or original essence. This is why celibacy has to be maintained and purification and cleansing has to keep occurring.... And also if a person does create a yang shen - then it will not want to enter back into this body, once it leaves the body. So it has to be "trained" to enter back into the body - since there is still some demonic yin qi left in the body, even though the yang shen has been created. And so the Yuan Qi is what guides this whole process and then in the end the Yang Shen still vaporizes back into Yuan Qi. The Yuan Qi decides if the Yang Shen will manifest again - as a golden immortal body.

 

So the paradox being that the more immortal a person becomes, the less of an individual person or mind they have. It is an impersonal process of energy transformation. The Emptiness does the healing and transformations.

 

[Phoenix3]

 

Quote

The heart is called Yi because when intent moves, spirit is agitated; qi is dispersed.

 

 

Isn’t the spleen where the Yi is located though? I thought the heart only houses the Shen, and that is what can be agitated and escapes the body through the eyes.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Phoenix3

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

 

Isn’t the spleen where the Yi is located though? I thought the heart only houses the Shen, and that is what can be agitated and escapes the body through the eyes.

 

 

Right - which brings us back to the OP - that is why you do the Lower Magpie Bridge activation - the flexing of the sphincter and perineum - along with the flexing of the diaphragm down. That stops the energy from going or leaking out of the eyes.

 

https://www.docdroid.net/VERjba1/voidisyinyangblogspotcom-the-idiots-guide-to-taoist-alchemy-qigong-enlightenment-neidan-nei-kung-neigong-training-for-males.pdf

 

so my training manual cites a Chinese Western-trained doctor who studied Neidan - and he says ONLY the pancreas as a visceral organ is directly connected to the sympathetic nerve of the spine. So the proper intention is to visualize and concentrate the Shen as Fire at the base of the spine - through the deep reverse breathing - so that the spleen and stomach literally make contact with the kidney adrenals. This doubles the adrenaline through a positive feedback with the pineal gland - which increases the adrenaline levels.

 

http://perceivebelieve.tumblr.com/post/159904989496/the-idiots-guide-to-taoist-alchemy-qigong

 

So there should be an image...

 

Quote

Meng Zi believed: “Will, is the master of Qi; Qi, is the content of a body. Where the will goes, Qi will go with it”(Zhang 2010a,b, p. 66).

 

So the deep reverse breathing and flexing of the lower body then is the will power to hold the qi to store it.

 

Quote

Between Heaven and Earth, the central harmonizing principle of Man is associated with the phase Soil (tu), the Spleen/Pancreas, worry, Intention (I), and Trustworthiness (xin).

 

And so Trustworthiness of the pancreas intention is actually the proper balance of the kidney water will power, with the emotional heart of fire, to create good soil.

 

Quote

pancreas-spleen = earth = 5kidney (water) 1 plus lung (metal) 4 = 5

heart (fire) 2 plus liver (wood) 3 = 5

Earth governs four of the five elements.

Dr. Shuang Yan Guan Zhu, physician, says how in his qi training experience, the pancreas directly connects to the spine sympathetic nervous system, in contrast to the other organs.

 

Quote

 

This in turn leads to the generation of action potentials in the descending vagus nerve that are relayed to the spleen, where pro-inflammatory cytokine production is inhibited.

the spleen is the major organ source of systemic TNF that accumulates in blood [7, 25]. TNF production in spleen accounts for >90% of the total TNF burden that reaches the circulation,

 

So what happens is then you get a "parasympathetic rebound" - which means from doing standing active exercise - like T'ai chi or horse stance or "moving of yin and yang" - then you push the sympathetic nervous system to the extreme and then it causes an opposite extreme as deep vagus nerve relaxation that stores up the Qi charge.

 

 

[Phoenix3]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

so my training manual cites a Chinese Western-trained doctor who studied Neidan - and he says ONLY the pancreas as a visceral organ is directly connected to the sympathetic nerve of the spine

 

But it isn’t. It’s connected to the sympathetic nervous system (the spine) through the celiac ganglia. The stomach, kidneys, spleen and liver are all connected in the same way (to the sympathetic nervous system through the celiac ganglia).

 

Does he mean the heart? The heart doesn’t go through any ganglia (i’m not a doctor, so i don’t really know) to reach the spine, and I’m not sure what any of this has to do with the Yi or spleen as I was talking about.

 

Quote

so my training manual cites a Chinese Western-trained doctor who studied Neidan - and he says ONLY the pancreas as a visceral organ is directly connected to the sympathetic nerve of the spine.

 

So the proper intention is to visualize and concentrate the Shen as Fire at the base of the spine - through the deep reverse breathing - so that the spleen and stomach literally make contact with the kidney adrenals. This doubles the adrenaline through a positive feedback with the pineal gland - which increases the adrenaline levels.

 

I don’t see how these two statements are connected. What’s the pancreas got to do with reverse breathing? What does increasing adrenaline have to do with Neidan? Isn’t increasing adrenaline a bad thing (it’s stress, when our body is under stress or facing danger, it activates the sympathetic nervous system which stimulates the adrenal glands to produce adrenaline which drains the energy from the body by putting it in a high state of alert). You say it pushes it to the point where it causes a parasympathetic rebound, but I don’t see how doing deep breathing can release more adrenaline than, for example, watching a horror movie. When I do deep breathing, I don’t feel particularly different.

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

But it isn’t. It’s connected to the sympathetic nervous system (the spine) through the celiac ganglia. The stomach, kidneys, spleen and liver are all connected in the same way (to the sympathetic nervous system through the celiac ganglia).

 

Does he mean the heart? The heart doesn’t go through any ganglia (i’m not a doctor, so i don’t really know) to reach the spine, and I’m not sure what any of this has to do with the Yi or spleen as I was talking about.

 

 

I don’t see how these two statements are connected. What’s the pancreas got to do with reverse breathing? What does increasing adrenaline have to do with Neidan? Isn’t increasing adrenaline a bad thing (it’s stress, when our body is under stress or facing danger, it activates the sympathetic nervous system which stimulates the adrenal glands to produce adrenaline which drains the energy from the body by putting it in a high state of alert). You say it pushes it to the point where it causes a parasympathetic rebound, but I don’t see how doing deep breathing can release more adrenaline than, for example, watching a horror movie. When I do deep breathing, I don’t feel particularly different.

 

yes there is a "positive feedback" between the adrenals and the pineal gland. So the pineal gland is the master key - to increasing adrenaline. the every day adrenaline is chronic levels - that cause inflammation and build up. The secret is to push the adrenaline to a deeper level - so when you do the standing active exercise - the leg muscles are much stronger than the arms. So the thigh muscles should get sore and the legs will shake 7 to 9 times per second - and so then what happens is you get the crap scared out of you literally. When the crap gets scared out of you - this is from serotonin flooding the intestines. So also when a person's face flushes red in shame - this is also a parasympathetic rebound reaction from serotonin. So if you keep doing the deep reverse breathing with horse stance and flexing the lower body - and the legs start shaking - this is building up adrenaline but also dopamine.

 

So Attraction is also dopamine but LUST is the sympathetic nervous system trigger that goes through the hypothalamus. This is why aggression and lust are closely connected because both are controlled by the hypothalamus. So if you see a beauty of form - you get a photonic signal of LUST and this triggers the dilation of the gate of mortality. This has to be fixed. So then attraction is dopamine which is parasympathetic but it is mixed in with the adrenaline from the lust - and so you have to keep building up the dopamine and adrenaline and then finally the dopamine switches to serotonin - and you know this happens because your colon gets flushed out of the crap. haha. That's how you know it's been triggered from dopamine and adrenaline into the parasympathetic rebound.

 

Of course that is just one level. While sitting in full lotus - what happens is the legs go numb - and so you just sit through it and when the feeling comes back this also is a switch to the vagus nerve. You can get this doing long standing exercise like Santi Shi - the legs will go numb - the feet, etc. But you just keep standing and then the qi energy goes back into them from the vagus nerve. So the vagus nerve builds up the qi and then the sympathetic nervous system is the trigger that sends out the qi.

 

I give the references in the Pdf.

 

On what the chinese medical doctor says about the pancreas - we can check his blog....

So what I did was copy his name into google and then I typed pancreas sympathetic. Here is what I got:

 

 

Quote

 

Shuang Yan Guan Zhu: 2012

sygz2012.blogspot.co.il/2012/?view=classic

The Qi from the pancreas (spleen) can directly enter the sympathetic system and then .... Posted 23rd August 2012 by Shuang Yan Guan Zhu. 0 ..... (ii) Dr. Rev.

 

 

So now I will click on the link to get the details. This is the result:

 

From my years of Qi practice, the following observations can be made.
 

          

Quote

      The Qi from the pancreas (spleen) can directly enter the sympathetic system and then enters the spinal cord. See figure 6. However, the Qi from the heart has to mix with the Qi from the liver before the Qi can enter the sympathetic chain. As for the kidney, the Qi from the lung has to mix with the kidney Qi before the kidney Qi can enter the sympathetic system.

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Mudfoot]

The original players have left, the explanations are at length, and this thread definetly have gone south. 😁 

 

As predicted. 

[voidisyinyang]

23 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

The original players have left, the explanations are at length, and this thread definetly have gone south. 😁 

 

As predicted. 

 

yes in TAoism to go south means to send the yang fire to the upper body.

 

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

@Mudfoot 

[Mudfoot]

Zouhuo rumo? 

[Taoist Texts]

No)