Meditation and Sleep

[Mal]

Hi All,

 

I remember someone writing that they use to get up at 3am to meditate and then go back to sleep afterwards. I've been thinking about this, gave it a go and I find that it's working out o.k. for me so far (but only a 2 day trial so far) It's sort of like my body does not notice that it's missing out on sleep, seems easier than waking up early to meditate.

 

Anyone got any info on how well this sort of thing goes long term? I always get up 2 or 3 times a night anyhow which is why I thought of trying this might be o.k. for me

[hagar]

Hi All,

 

I remember someone writing that they use to get up at 3am to meditate and then go back to sleep afterwards. I've been thinking about this, gave it a go and I find that it's working out o.k. for me so far (but only a 2 day trial so far) It's sort of like my body does not notice that it's missing out on sleep, seems easier than waking up early to meditate.

 

Anyone got any info on how well this sort of thing goes long term? I always get up 2 or 3 times a night anyhow which is why I thought of trying this might be o.k. for me

 

I've always related to sleep as to quality of sleep, and not quantity. If you feel like you improve your quality of sleep by meditating, then it's not a problem for the body that you cut down on the hours. Sitting at night may give you access to the waxing yang energy, wich is good.

 

Yet, sleep is closely related to the jin (marro-tendon-liver-gallbladder aspect), and Jing aspect of the body, not only shen. I myself have never got around to having a good practice at night. I'm just too tired, and sleep little enough as it is, as my son wakes up about 0530.

So doing Jing-related practices just before going to sleep has always been my way of doing it.

 

The capacity of deep sleep (non-REM) is connected to you ability to physically rejuvenate, and mentally recover. That's why a teenager can sleep recuperate better than middle-aged people:

They have more Yang energy, and more Jing, thus giving a deeper sleep. Disturbed sleep patterns may only get worse by regular meditation at night. So be careful.

 

A friend of my master has this practice: Meditation from 11pm to 6 am. Then sleep until 10 am. Then again, he's a monk at the White Cloud temple.

 

M

[Mal]

The capacity of deep sleep (non-REM) is connected to you ability to physically rejuvenate, and mentally recover.

 

Thats the bit I worry about. I'm getting good 90 min sleep cycles in 4hrs Meditate 3 hrs , but is there enough to physically repair the body and recover for the comming day?

 

I guess the best would be to perhaps not do this every night but on weekends where I could sleep in. Take it slow. Or only do it if I feel like it after waking up naturally. That could be the best, when I was trying to get up I was just turning the alarm off. The first time I actually gave it a go I was already awake at 2:50 eagerly waiting

 

A friend of my master has this practice: Meditation from 11pm to 6 am. Then sleep until 10 am. Then again, he's a monk at the White Cloud temple.

 

That would be nice, except I'd want to sleep till 2pm

 

I remember back in the 90'ssomeone was sleeping 4hrs 2x a day and claiming that was working well, but I'm not sure how it actually turned out.

[sheng zhen]

Thats the bit I worry about. I'm getting good 90 min sleep cycles in 4hrs Meditate 3 hrs , but is there enough to physically repair the body and recover for the comming day?

 

I guess the best would be to perhaps not do this every night but on weekends where I could sleep in. Take it slow. Or only do it if I feel like it after waking up naturally. That could be the best, when I was trying to get up I was just turning the alarm off. The first time I actually gave it a go I was already awake at 2:50 eagerly waiting

That would be nice, except I'd want to sleep till 2pm

 

I remember back in the 90'ssomeone was sleeping 4hrs 2x a day and claiming that was working well, but I'm not sure how it actually turned out.

We have a guy here in Norway who sleeps 4h a day distributed throughout the day on 15min naps. He's an artist called Reidar Finsrud, a true genious. I took a drawing course with him many years ago. That time he told us he just extended his sleep from 3h to 4h because of age. He had 3h sleep since he was 16yr old or something. For him it works, but he is special.

 

The deep sleep is the most important and cannot be replaced by meditation unless you are very experienced. There are so many calibrations and healing happening in deep sleep, both in body and mind, that if you dont get your deep sleep you will go mad. It is used as a method of torture. If you're having trouble getting deep sleep you will have a lot of healthproblems.

 

If you do too much meditation late at night you will probably get problems with deep sleep. But it WILL make you more able to lucid dream more often, so it has its benefits

[Mal]

Thanks reminded me of this (wasn't even a member then )

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...p;hl=sleep+time

 

Nothing lucid yet, but that would be nice to experience again. Dreams do seem better after meditation, I can even get them by falling into a 20 min nap after, usually a 20 min nap would be dreamless for me.

[sheng zhen]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...p;hl=sleep+time

Thanks Mal! Great links to Steve Pavlinas blog on his experiments with this. Made me really want to try it.

[joeblast]

A few serious months straight of Yang Jwing Ming's embryonic breathing gave me some awesome results. I used to be able to sit and meditate for 40 minutes to an hour and it would seriously feel like I got 4 hours of sleep. Sad that I fell out of that practice and havent focused on it enough to get it back!

[wudangspirit]

Mal,

 

According to Taoist internal theory, between 11 - 1 on both sides of the clock are the ideal times for meditation. 11 a.m. - 1 p.m. is when "qi" runs through the heart channel and is good for you to relax the mind and open up the channels through meditation. 11 p.m. - 1 p.m. is also good to open up the channels and get a good meditation.

 

Of course you have to do what works for your schedule.

 

Wudangspirit

 

 

 

Hi All,

 

I remember someone writing that they use to get up at 3am to meditate and then go back to sleep afterwards. I've been thinking about this, gave it a go and I find that it's working out o.k. for me so far (but only a 2 day trial so far) It's sort of like my body does not notice that it's missing out on sleep, seems easier than waking up early to meditate.

 

Anyone got any info on how well this sort of thing goes long term? I always get up 2 or 3 times a night anyhow which is why I thought of trying this might be o.k. for me

[hagar]

Thats the bit I worry about. I'm getting good 90 min sleep cycles in 4hrs Meditate 3 hrs , but is there enough to physically repair the body and recover for the comming day?

 

I guess the best would be to perhaps not do this every night but on weekends where I could sleep in. Take it slow. Or only do it if I feel like it after waking up naturally. That could be the best, when I was trying to get up I was just turning the alarm off. The first time I actually gave it a go I was already awake at 2:50 eagerly waiting

That would be nice, except I'd want to sleep till 2pm

 

I remember back in the 90'ssomeone was sleeping 4hrs 2x a day and claiming that was working well, but I'm not sure how it actually turned out.

 

You are the best to evaluate your own body and mind, and from what you write there are two scenarios relating to mediation, from my limited understanding:

 

1. You have alot of Gong, meaning you have alot of shen, so that you do not need alot of sleep, thus waking up alot. Then meditating is a good thing to do.

 

2. You have a sleep disorder of a slight degree. Many people have varying degrees of sleep disorders, varying from trouble sleeping, early awakening, and insomnia, but most are related to the kidney and liver energy and it's connection to the heart shen. If so, I'd work on practices that focus on the jing, jin and heart center.

 

Only my two kroner.

 

h

[rain]

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Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[joeblast]

I usually do kunlun and or meditate for an hour or two before bed each night and I sleep like a rock, always deep and I rarely ever wake up at night. I just dont ever want to get out of bed in the morning

[hagar]

[seadog]

Mal,

 

According to Taoist internal theory, between 11 - 1 on both sides of the clock are the ideal times for meditation. 11 a.m. - 1 p.m. is when "qi" runs through the heart channel and is good for you to relax the mind and open up the channels through meditation. 11 p.m. - 1 p.m. is also good to open up the channels and get a good meditation.

 

Of course you have to do what works for your schedule.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Thanks for this Wudangspirit. Does this time frame of 11pm-1pm also represent yin beginning to transform into yang.?

[Brian L. Kennedy]

Edited February 8, 2008 by Brian L. Kennedy

[Mal]

[Brian L. Kennedy]

[rain]

Yes there seems to be sleeping practise in the Dao system.

According to M.Chia, sleeping position can be like this;

"If you are lying down on your right side, you avoid pressure on the heart. Thumb and index fingers of the right hand cover right ear; with elbow serving as pillow. Left big toe touches right inner ankle, to connect the yinqiao/wei points. Left hand placed either on left hip or in between legs."

 

it seems that acc to feng shui there are certain recommended directions for bedroom and beds position..north, east, southeast, west and nortwest from the centre of your house.

 

Young people should normally not sleep with their heads towards the north.

North is a good position if you are having sleeping problems.

Edited January 31, 2008 by rain

[Brian L. Kennedy]

Edited February 8, 2008 by Brian L. Kennedy

[mYTHmAKER]

Hi All,

 

I remember someone writing that they use to get up at 3am to meditate and then go back to sleep afterwards. I've been thinking about this, gave it a go and I find that it's working out o.k. for me so far (but only a 2 day trial so far) It's sort of like my body does not notice that it's missing out on sleep, seems easier than waking up early to meditate.

 

Anyone got any info on how well this sort of thing goes long term? I always get up 2 or 3 times a night anyhow which is why I thought of trying this might be o.k. for me

 

Twas i.

We used to get up and chant and meditate at 3 am. Go back to sleep at 5 am. Get up for work at 8 am.

It seemed magical - special.

Never any disturbances - telephone etc.

We did it for at least 5 years.

I don't remember exactly why we stopped.

I find when i sleep on my back i dream and visualize more.

On my right side i sometimes feel pressure around my heart.

My left side is fine.

I usually feel more comfortable sleeping facing away from the center of the mattress.

Maybe I feel safer as mYTHISmAKER is watching my back

Edited February 4, 2008 by mYTHmAKER