Taoism and Avoiding Grains

[Rara]

Hey everyone,

 

What do you think about this? Would you say it depends on who you are?

 

I've tried many diets in my life but whenever I drop things such as bread, pasta, rice, oats etc I struggle with my energy levels. Such things replenish me (along with meat and veg of course)

 

Also, I drop weight very easily as well, people recently have been commenting on how much weight I've lost. I'm eating 2500-3000 cals a day with so many grains and less healthy things (pizza, ice cream) going into my body yet I'm trying so hard to stay aboove 145 lbs (I'm 5'10" and small boned, though)

 

I'm essing off on the sugary stuff again now, but still, I'm curious to know what you guys are eating and what your body types are.

 

Thanks!

[thelerner]

Sounds like you know your body, and its reaction to food groups.  Only thing I'd encourage is less processed food, perhaps getting more healthy fats.  I love avocado smoothies.. various nuts to keep up your body weight.

 

 

Note*  I'm a not a good example.

[Rara]

On 10/06/2018 at 4:18 PM, thelerner said:

I love avocado smoothies.. various nuts to keep up your body weight.

 

I was given an avocado, peanut butter and snickers smoothie once. It was amazing!

[Marblehead]

I heard it's okay to consume grain as long as it is in the fermented liquid form.

 

[thelerner]

1 hour ago, Rara said:

 

I was given an avocado, peanut butter and snickers smoothie once. It was amazing!

eyumm, semi-evil but yum.  course i'm still hoping to find another faire that does deep fried Snickers**; looks like a corndog, tastes like molten chocolate heaven.   **pretty much pure evil.  you need a note from your doctor to order 2, and a note from your priest to order 3.

 

My green shake is an avocado, half banana (frozen or add handful ice), handful or two spinach, cover with up with milk and blend.  Maybe put in a few drops of vanilla and teaspoon or two of sweetener. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by thelerner

[Stosh]

I'm told there are many factors act play , which you may have heard already, but ...

 

 Since your brain requires glucose to run , you basically have to get it from carbs , 

 protein can be converted, but ones liver only marginally provides enough enzymes to keep you operational on proteins so there's a point at which it just doesn't matter how much protein you consume , it will not be sufficient.

Your overall energy levels may be met with fats and proteins , but having to do all the conversions wastes metabolic energy.

( So, an amt of carbs added to a high fat and meat diet makes a big difference in your feeling of energy and weight. ) 

Then there's issues like vitamins and essential nutrients to complicate it all. 

 

What anyone else eats really shouldn't be very influential about what your OWN diet needs to be.

I feel I do best on a rather low carb situation.. and little to no wheat especially .. but that's just me. 

 

 

 

 

[Rara]

21 hours ago, Stosh said:

I'm told there are many factors act play , which you may have heard already, but ...

 

 Since your brain requires glucose to run , you basically have to get it from carbs , 

 protein can be converted, but ones liver only marginally provides enough enzymes to keep you operational on proteins so there's a point at which it just doesn't matter how much protein you consume , it will not be sufficient.

Your overall energy levels may be met with fats and proteins , but having to do all the conversions wastes metabolic energy.

( So, an amt of carbs added to a high fat and meat diet makes a big difference in your feeling of energy and weight. ) 

Then there's issues like vitamins and essential nutrients to complicate it all. 

 

What anyone else eats really shouldn't be very influential about what your OWN diet needs to be.

I feel I do best on a rather low carb situation.. and little to no wheat especially .. but that's just me. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Stosh. Interesting how you mention the fats and proteins as I was just thinking a while ago how shitter I feel when eating them alone veg. But on paper, "it looks so healthy". This is what is known as the Atkins diet, right? Then you get some guy like Joe Rogan, pushing that kind of diet and saying "avoid bread and pasta"...but he is 200lbs and a natural beast. If I avoided bread and pasta, I'd be 30 lbs (and that would just be the skeleton I have)

 

Carbs are ultra-fuel for me. So as long as I'm ok to eat my breads and cereals in the morning (which is really not advised in this day and age of recent diet fads) then I'm all good. On a good run, I eat masses of locally sourced lean meat, carbs, homemade oaty treats. Simply add veg to my dinner for colour and snack on fruit throughout the day.

 

I guess I should count myself lucky then...I feel sorry for those that can't enjoy wheat!

[CloudHands]

Grains (and vegetables) are I what digest best. I make my own sourdough bread though and  I mostly eat rice. There is a real density in these.

Otherwise it's meat... but I tolerate it much less so I can't eat it as much.

Plus, quality meat is rare and pricey and beyond that all indicate that a large consumption of meat is bad for health.

Instead vegetable oils, all good.

 

 

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Rara said:

 

Thanks Stosh. Interesting how you mention the fats and proteins as I was just thinking a while ago how shitter I feel when eating them alone veg. But on paper, "it looks so healthy". This is what is known as the Atkins diet, right? Then you get some guy like Joe Rogan, pushing that kind of diet and saying "avoid bread and pasta"...but he is 200lbs and a natural beast. If I avoided bread and pasta, I'd be 30 lbs (and that would just be the skeleton I have)

 

Carbs are ultra-fuel for me. So as long as I'm ok to eat my breads and cereals in the morning (which is really not advised in this day and age of recent diet fads) then I'm all good. On a good run, I eat masses of locally sourced lean meat, carbs, homemade oaty treats. Simply add veg to my dinner for colour and snack on fruit throughout the day.

 

I guess I should count myself lucky then...I feel sorry for those that can't enjoy wheat!

When I was younger , I probably ate 2 bagels with cream cheese every day for many years , so been there, done that, so  Its ok for me to skip most bread and grain products. At least  I didn't end up diabetic so I should be happy for that.

Pound for pound cheap meat costs the same as capn crunch. Vegetable oils and carb diets are , IMO, terrible for human consumption outside the regular content vegetables have. But I am not instructing anyone on this. 

I came across an interesting factoid I had forgotten, which was that pretty much everything you actually digest and absorb , is reduced to water and CO2 , so a big dump, like after a pasta meal,  means most of that was never used , at all. 

But people do not really eat what they do to 'fuel themselves',, more so they are feeding a gut flora .

If it was the case otherwise, we could get by with relatively very little. 

And yeah , you should count yourself 'lucky', if you aren't afflicted with dietary imbalances and inflammations.

Live long and prosper ,skinny dude.  

 

[dwai]

On 6/10/2018 at 8:20 AM, Rara said:

Hey everyone,

 

What do you think about this? Would you say it depends on who you are?

 

I've tried many diets in my life but whenever I drop things such as bread, pasta, rice, oats etc I struggle with my energy levels. Such things replenish me (along with meat and veg of course)

 

Also, I drop weight very easily as well, people recently have been commenting on how much weight I've lost. I'm eating 2500-3000 cals a day with so many grains and less healthy things (pizza, ice cream) going into my body yet I'm trying so hard to stay aboove 145 lbs (I'm 5'10" and small boned, though)

 

I'm essing off on the sugary stuff again now, but still, I'm curious to know what you guys are eating and what your body types are.

 

Thanks!

I find that after quitting all carbs and sugar, I am much healthier. Dropped 20 lbs and continue to do so steadily. Upon reflection I find that eating carbs and sugar is akin to feeding a hungry ghost. The more you eat it, the more the cravings and leads to a very negative cycle.

 

Unless someone is doing heavy labor, eating carbs and sugar should be kept at a minimum. 

[Gerard]

This is what I think:

 

http://www.meridianpress.net/articles/healthyeating-chinesemedicineperspective.html

 

https://agelessherbs.com/food-therapy/

 

https://www.universal-tao.com/5elements/5ElementsCDmenu.html

 

General dietary advice:

 

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/index.html

 

Eat happy and good cooked with love, and in good company whenever you can:

 

https://www.pingminghealth.com/article/837/the-importance-of-eating-in-a-healthy-environment/

 

Chinese civilisation has been doing this for thousands of years. Eating in a round table like the Christ and his disciples.

 

https://youtu.be/-zB_b0A0bbs

 

This good habit  is slowly fading away in the West especially in anglophone countries, which interestingly have the higher rates of obesity, cancer and heart disease.

 

Dampness (one thing that you should be VERY concerned of and not grains)

 

http://acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms/at/article.php?id=31706

 

Eat well and happy. 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Gerard

[Rara]

@Stosh Do you have a "typical day of eating" that you could share? I'm curious as to how one can eat 3 meals a day without the inclusion of much carbs.

 

When I've tried it, I've spent more money because of eating extra protein foods instead. Plus, must be hard to get over 1500 cals on such a diet?

[Rara]

5 hours ago, Gerard said:

This is what I think:

 

http://www.meridianpress.net/articles/healthyeating-chinesemedicineperspective.html

 

https://agelessherbs.com/food-therapy/

 

https://www.universal-tao.com/5elements/5ElementsCDmenu.html

 

General dietary advice:

 

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/index.html

 

 

Dampness (one thing that you should be VERY concerned of and not grains)

 

http://acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms/at/article.php?id=31706

 

 

Not early AD or pre AD fairy tales developed by ungrounded practitioners; that is Taoist Science based on TCM principles not superstition and folklore; ie grains, microcosmic orbit,  

golden flower meditation, etc.

 

 

 

Thanks Gerard. I read the first article and will read the rest when I can.

 

Funny how it has "don't worry" as a big point. I am concerned how I'm struggling to gain weight despite piling in calories of dense yang foods.

 

I like what the writer said about the "Qi of the cook". So true! This is how I judge cooking...you can just feel the chef's personality in a good meal.

[Stosh]

2 hours ago, Rara said:

@Stosh Do you have a "typical day of eating" that you could share? I'm curious as to how one can eat 3 meals a day without the inclusion of much carbs.

 

When I've tried it, I've spent more money because of eating extra protein foods instead. Plus, must be hard to get over 1500 cals on such a diet?

I don't really eat three meals a day. One meal , maybe snacks , and I do eat some carbs , I just don't do the big bowls of pasta, the full size tuna subs , (where you end up eating  a half pound of grain at a time ) breakfast cereal and so forth. I figure , the more one spends mentally dwelling on their food , the more you or I end up spending in cash.

Numerically kcalories as they measure them, never add up to a useful barometer of intake, because the energy content is not assessed by enzymatic breakdown , nor is uptake vs waste compared , nor is your colon flora considered. 

Seriously , its all total garbage, the poor rates of success in dieting , the high rates of diabetes and heart disease etc , should smack everyone in the face that the 'authorities' just have no clue as to what they are promoting. I suggest that one needs to take some guesses at what ideas will stand the test of time , watch the effects of what they eat , and realize that as we age the rules we used to go by won't fit so well.  Paleo style diets are probably a good bet, but frankly paleo peoples ate -what they could get their hands on. Just as we eat foods that are convenient and entertainment packed. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Stosh

[Rara]

23 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I don't really eat three meals a day. One meal , maybe snacks , and I do eat some carbs , I just don't do the big bowls of pasta, the full size tuna subs , (where you end up eating  a half pound of grain at a time ) breakfast cereal and so forth. I figure , the more one spends mentally dwelling on their food , the more you or I end up spending in cash.

Numerically kcalories as they measure them, never add up to a useful barometer of intake, because the energy content is not assessed by enzymatic breakdown , nor is uptake vs waste compared , nor is your colon flora considered. 

Seriously , its all total garbage, the poor rates of success in dieting , the high rates of diabetes and heart disease etc , should smack everyone in the face that the 'authorities' just have no clue as to what they are promoting. I suggest that one needs to take some guesses at what ideas will stand the test of time , watch the effects of what they eat , and realize that as we age the rules we used to go by won't fit so well.  Paleo style diets are probably a good bet, but frankly paleo peoples ate -what they could get their hands on. Just as we eat foods that are convenient and entertainment packed. 

 

Interesting point.

 

For example, I'm usually mega-hungry around 10am, but not usually first thing. But at that point, I could eat sausages, eggs, toast, tomatoes and finish with cereal.

 

So where do I fit lunch in? Closer to 5pm...alternatively I could snack on fruits etc and have a large dinner around 7pm and be done with it. But if I DO the 5pm lunch thing, I end up eating a dinner around 10pm...I always get hungry around then. I think this pattern comes from doing more shift-orientated work though. They seem like good times all round for if I work early or late...

[Stosh]

44 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

Interesting point.

 

For example, I'm usually mega-hungry around 10am, but not usually first thing. But at that point, I could eat sausages, eggs, toast, tomatoes and finish with cereal.

 

So where do I fit lunch in? Closer to 5pm...alternatively I could snack on fruits etc and have a large dinner around 7pm and be done with it. But if I DO the 5pm lunch thing, I end up eating a dinner around 10pm...I always get hungry around then. I think this pattern comes from doing more shift-orientated work though. They seem like good times all round for if I work early or late...

My issue is more about getting fat than being skinny , so I employ the laziness gene , and leave mostly nothing in the house to grab. 

I don't really care to eat three meals , I like the way it spaces a day , but the meals aren't all that important.

I feed the cat meals , one in the morning and one when I get home , the rest of the time there is just no potential to eat and so its off her mind , she can relax.

(Comparatively ,,,, three meals a day! every day !  ...for crying out loud!  )

Any way , mon I skipped lunch but roasted a chicken and ate the dark meat for dinner, tues I had the breaded breastmeat and two tall glasses of icy welches grape juice. This morning I ate two croissant sandwiches with eggs and bacon , and may just skip lunch , and get some more fruit juice for dinner. 

Lazy , cheap , and really 'enough, is as good as a feast' IMO. ( I weigh about 220)

Edited June 13, 2018 by Stosh

[Rara]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

My issue is more about getting fat than being skinny , so I employ the laziness gene , and leave mostly nothing in the house to grab. 

I don't really care to eat three meals , I like the way it spaces a day , but the meals aren't all that important.

I feed the cat meals , one in the morning and one when I get home , the rest of the time there is just no potential to eat and so its off her mind , she can relax.

(Comparatively ,,,, three meals a day! every day !  ...for crying out loud!  )

Any way , mon I skipped lunch but roasted a chicken and ate the dark meat for dinner, tues I had the breaded breastmeat and two tall glasses of icy welches grape juice. This morning I ate two croissant sandwiches with eggs and bacon , and may just skip lunch , and get some more fruit juice for dinner. 

Lazy , cheap , and really 'enough, is as good as a feast' IMO. ( I weigh about 220)

 

That's unfair. If I ate like that I would be dead haha (and you'll be saying the same about my diet, just on the opposite end of the scale)

[silent thunder]

I sense our digestive system is adapting to the inculcation of processed modern grains and processed sugar.

 

These elements are very recent additions to our ancestral foodscape (particularly sugar), having no place in our distant past and there appear to be repercussions as our bodies are adapting to, and assimilating these new elements in our regular diet habits. 

 

Particularly, the seeming rise in IBS, Diverticulitis, Crohn's, obesity, diabetes 2/insulin resistance, all seem like systemic reactions to attempting to assimilate elements that our bodies are not yet adapted to process cleanly and derive good nutrition and energy from...

 

This is just my sense of it, based on my own experimentation wheening things out of my diet completely, then re-introducing... as well as working with my wife who has been struggling for some years finding a diet that will calm her routine bouts of IBS/Crohn's.  

[Rara]

On 12/06/2018 at 9:27 PM, CloudHands said:

Grains (and vegetables) are I what digest best. I make my own sourdough bread though and  I mostly eat rice. There is a real density in these.

Otherwise it's meat... but I tolerate it much less so I can't eat it as much.

Plus, quality meat is rare and pricey and beyond that all indicate that a large consumption of meat is bad for health.

Instead vegetable oils, all good.

 

 

 

I love your profile name btw...not sure if I ever said this?

[Rara]

8 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I sense our digestive system is adapting to the inculcation of processed modern grains and processed sugar.

 

These elements are very recent additions to our ancestral foodscape (particularly sugar), having no place in our distant past and there appear to be repercussions as our bodies are adapting to, and assimilating these new elements in our regular diet habits. 

 

Particularly, the seeming rise in IBS, Diverticulitis, Crohn's, obesity, diabetes 2/insulin resistance, all seem like systemic reactions to attempting to assimilate elements that our bodies are not yet adapted to process cleanly and derive good nutrition and energy from...

 

This is just my sense of it, based on my own experimentation wheening things out of my diet completely, then re-introducing... as well as working with my wife who has been struggling for some years finding a diet that will calm her routine bouts of IBS/Crohn's.  

 

My Dad does have diabetes. And prior to this, I was brought up on his ways ...if I can avoid this in my life then that'll be a bonus

[Gerard]

Hands up who has experienced this in their childhood:

 

"Do not criticise children while they are eating."

 

From:

 

The importance of eating in a healthy environment

 

[Stosh]

17 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I sense our digestive system is adapting to the inculcation of processed modern grains and processed sugar.

 

These elements are very recent additions to our ancestral foodscape (particularly sugar), having no place in our distant past and there appear to be repercussions as our bodies are adapting to, and assimilating these new elements in our regular diet habits. 

 

Particularly, the seeming rise in IBS, Diverticulitis, Crohn's, obesity, diabetes 2/insulin resistance, all seem like systemic reactions to attempting to assimilate elements that our bodies are not yet adapted to process cleanly and derive good nutrition and energy from...

 

This is just my sense of it, based on my own experimentation wheening things out of my diet completely, then re-introducing... as well as working with my wife who has been struggling for some years finding a diet that will calm her routine bouts of IBS/Crohn's.  

Does this approach  'Fecal transplant' or ' yellow soup' sound applicable ?

I couldn't say that it works or not , but at least it addresses the gut flora thing and the many manifestations that seem unrelated , but clearly are. 

[Rara]

8 hours ago, Gerard said:

Hands up who has experienced this in their childhood:

 

"Do not criticise children while they are eating."

 

From:

 

The importance of eating in a healthy environment

 

 

I believe you posted this in your first post. But thanks for this, it is a nice reminder to not rush food and multitask when eating...it's easily done in this day and age.

[silent thunder]

9 hours ago, Gerard said:

Hands up who has experienced this in their childhood:

 

"Do not criticise children while they are eating."

 

From:

 

The importance of eating in a healthy environment

 

Of tantamount importance... no matter what I eat... is how I eat it, my overall approach to the food, to the consuming of it, who I am with, how I feel about them... and the state of the person/people handling it when it was prepared. 

 

There are certain places I enter hungry and very soon realize... nope, I'm fasting for now, can't/won't eat the food from this/in this place.

 

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

Does this approach  'Fecal transplant' or ' yellow soup' sound applicable ?

I couldn't say that it works or not , but at least it addresses the gut flora thing and the many manifestations that seem unrelated , but clearly are. 

Gut flora is where it's at to me, for overall health and vitality...  the flora in our gut is aware, it's alive and it's the foundation of the source of the energy we glean through nutrition.  It responds to what we think about eating and to me, is behind many of our cravings.  This is why it's so important what I choose to eat when coming off a fast...  that food is going to begin a foundation of flora in the gut and this flora will be wanting similar foods to maintain its own life.  Gut flora is what is behind many of our cravings I suspect.

 

None of the western dr's my wife has consulted have talked about fecal transplanting, or anything aside from steroids and other pharmaceuticals.  They don't even mention what she's eating... sad really. 

 

Transplanting seems a viable option to me once she can get past the chronic inflammation.  Though at this point, I'd like to see her drop the western dr treatment for a while and consult a TCM for herbal/accupuncture and see how she responds.

[silent thunder]

Incidents of bowel disorders seem to be more prevalent in techno-dependent, more sterile environments than in the third world.  We don't have exposure to many bacteria growing up and thus have a reduced spectrum of flora in the gut overall.  Though this is likely my own projection.