Aggressive, unpleasant and violent people; do we need more of them?

[windwalker]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Calling the effect the "Empty Force" is also looking at it from a personal/subjective perspective. The same effect and more can be achieved by means of hypnosis or suggestion, so it it doesn't prove there is actually a force projected onto the 'victim'.  Even if one were to experience the effect oneself it would still not prove there is a force pushing you. To prove the existence of an Empty Force one would have to measure it. A thousand direct personal experiences don't prove as much as one controlled measurement.

 

Its called kong jin,,,,not empty force...the english translation leaves a lot of the meaning out. 

I would suggest first study some TCM theory this would help one in understanding what it acts on  and how its affected not here to either validate or in validate , the post was in answer that some experiences may be far out side of ones own.  spent some time looking into this traveling to china for some 10yrs or so....

 

an old documentary,,,The doctors approach to understanding was honest and insightful...Again not really the subject of this thread

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by windwalker

[wandelaar]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

It's a form of energy sensitivity + mind control + being able to 'move' the fabric of the universe (the energy field of the Earth).  Depending on the percentage of which of those is present determines how much cooperation is required of the 'victim'.  It's a fun game but useless in real life.

 

Is it also possible to move for instance a stone by the empty force? That would then rule out the possibility that the feat is accomplished by pure suggestion.

 

I also wonder whether it would work against a sceptical prizefighter.

[windwalker]

2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Is it also possible to move for instance a stone by the empty force? That would then rule out the possibility that the feat is accomplished by pure suggestion.

 

I also wonder whether it would work against a sceptical prizefighter.

 

 

my last comment on this,,,

the questioning  by some is very ignorant.   

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by windwalker

[Starjumper]

18 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Is it also possible to move for instance a stone by the empty force? That would then rule out the possibility that the feat is accomplished by pure suggestion.

 

I also wonder whether it would work against a sceptical prizefighter.

 

To move an inanimate object is possible but extremely rare, and even for those who can do it it wastes large amounts of energy (unless they are something like a mahaavatar, who wouldn't bother).  I also forgot to mention -  with the self deluded fakes who claim to do this it is primarily suggestibility of the students when they hop up and down like yoyos.  

 

Skeptical prizefighters have zero energy sensitivity and are also uncooperative and so once again a person who could move them is extremely rare, and THEY DO NOT ADVERTISE OR MAKE VIDEOS.  Additionally, in the real world someone who could do that wouldn't ever bother to waste the energy during a fight when it is so much easier to just kill them with a physical technique.  I mean, really, WTF good is it to push someone away if they want to kill you?  They'll just come right back and try again.  There are other ways to stop a 'prizefighter' with energy, which doesn't waste so much energy, but once again, the true ability is extremely rare.

 

< / thread drift>

[wandelaar]

@ Starjumper

 

Thank you for answering my questions.

Edited June 13, 2018 by wandelaar

[Starjumper]

Wow, Drew wrote something which is both on topic and comprehensible.  Way to go!  We knew you could do it.

 

It even made sense 

 

< / thread drift>

[cosmic4z]

1 hour ago, windwalker said:

 

 

my last comment on this,,,

the questioning  by some is very ignorant.   

 

 

I don't understand how asking a question is ignorant? Isn't ignorance a consequence of not asking questions?

[silent thunder]

I'm reminded of something my son said to me, randomly and unprompted as we drove around our neighborhood years ago. 

He was a toddler at the time and we'd been driving in silence.

 

Son:  Dad

Me:  Yea?

Son: You gotta love the angry people Dad.  They need it the most.

Me: (big grin)  right on buddy... right on.

[cosmic4z]

This maybe relevant to the thread. Navy seals demonstrate how to survive a knife attack....

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JfAYyZoVy5o

[Michael Sternbach]

19 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

Dear fellow forum dwellers with an interst in Daoism...

 

Ordinarily, I am (to the best of my knowledge) a calm friendly and reasonable person. I very rarely find myself in conflict with other people. However, recently, I've been coming across quite a few, aggressive, obnoxious, violent types (mostly in actual real life, but you come across them online too, threats of serious violence, people red with anger, etc) which I have found disturbing. I mean, disturbing in the way that it's unsettled or uncentered me.

 

I see two broad issues.

 

1. Why am I recently experiencing a higher incidence of conflict situations than normal.

2. How am I processing and dealing with them (i.e. defending myself).

 

For now, I'm seeing 2 as more urgent to address. It's unreasonable to expect everyone else in the world to be as reasonable (and calm) as yourself; some people just are pissed off at whatever, and want to vent and take it out on anyone, you may not have done anything wrong, but the important thing is can you defend yourself (verbally, emotionally, physically, in everyway)?

 

I don't think I'm making a great job of 2. This ties in with the thread title. I believe a person such as myself, needs more exposure to the thing I'm not dealing with well. I need more people who press my buttons and piss me off and are angry and violent towards me; because it's all grist for the mill, an opportunity to learn and change.

 

Just airing my views. Feel free to share your own insights and thougts on the matter...

 

Holy crapola, I just had an insight, maybe I'm suffering with nice-itis. That's not good.

 

You may want to start taking martial arts classes for that. (Combat oriented ones, not the kind that is all about meditation and feeling at one with the Universe.)

[Michael Sternbach]

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

To move an inanimate object is possible but extremely rare, and even for those who can do it it wastes large amounts of energy (unless they are something like a mahaavatar, who wouldn't bother).  I also forgot to mention -  with the self deluded fakes who claim to do this it is primarily suggestibility of the students when they hop up and down like yoyos.  

 

Yeah, I've seen some pretty hilarious "demonstrations" of that kind.

 

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Skeptical prizefighters have zero energy sensitivity and are also uncooperative and so once again a person who could move them is extremely rare, and THEY DO NOT ADVERTISE OR MAKE VIDEOS.  Additionally, in the real world someone who could do that wouldn't ever bother to waste the energy during a fight when it is so much easier to just kill them with a physical technique.  I mean, really, WTF good is it to push someone away if they want to kill you?  They'll just come right back and try again.

 

Generally true. Unless you push them out of a window or into a vat filled with acid or something...

 

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 There are other ways to stop a 'prizefighter' with energy, which doesn't waste so much energy, but once again, the true ability is extremely rare.

 

It surely is...

 

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

< / thread drift>

 

Without a doubt.

[Starjumper]

12 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Generally true. Unless you push them out of a window or into a vat filled with acid or something...

 

Or into an oncoming bus or a brick wall is how we were told.

[Michael Sternbach]

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

 

Or into an oncoming bus or a brick wall is how we were told.

 

Yeah, there is room for creativity there.

 

You could also push someone into his buddy while you exit stage left.

 

So I would say pushing is not entirely useless as a fighting method, although its applicability is quite limited.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Michael Sternbach

[dwai]

in my experience, if we keep running into a certain type of person, there is a lesson in there for us. Either in terms of how we react or how we approach the situation. For me, it has been in the form of a burly, egotistical and/or manipulative co-worker. The last one was my manager until he got canned.

[Aetherous]

20 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

Ordinarily, I am (to the best of my knowledge) a calm friendly and reasonable person. I very rarely find myself in conflict with other people.

 

That can be a sign of having an unhealthy relationship with anger. Ever see the movie "Anger Management"? In the movie, Adam Sandler isn't doing anything that would seem like an outburst, but people end up taking it that way from him to the point of him needing court mandated therapy, and it turns out that he does have some seething anger beneath the facade of calm and reaosnable.

Sometimes really nice people have a very strong anger that no one is really aware of, themselves or others, until it comes out in various ways. I have this Buddhist friend who is the most peaceful person, has the most calm eyes, says the nicest thoughts...but if you cross him, he is unforgiving and can't ever let anything go.

These nice people learned at one time, in one way or another, to repress anger completely rather than to just express it and have it be over with.

 

20 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

However, recently, I've been coming across quite a few, aggressive, obnoxious, violent types (mostly in actual real life, but you come across them online too, threats of serious violence, people red with anger, etc) which I have found disturbing. I mean, disturbing in the way that it's unsettled or uncentered me.

 

Not that we should act as doormats for other people to smear their crap all over, at all...but I think it's good to consider that what we feel is our responsibility, and isn't really the result of anything anyone else does. "He uncentered me"...is actually..."I'm uncentered and blaming it on someone else".

Part of the spiritual path is dealing with challenges in life, and learning how to stay centered through them. If it weren't for the challenges, our centering wouldn't really be strong. If we can be truly centered despite anything that happens, fully in control of what we have power over, we've attained something special.

I'd also like to say: there is room in this world for everybody. They are the spice of life. Without them, what would we have to be dramatic over?

[thelerner]

My sensei had a long speech we'd hear many times over the years.  The theme was Walk away.  If you have to fight, fight- then walk away.  Win or lose.. walk away.  Don't stay, don't gloat, don't excuse, don't threaten, don't moralize, don't get in the last word.  Walk the hell away. 

 

Those last few words can turn a losing situation into a disastrous one, and a winning situation into one requiring an emergency room.  State your piece, do what you must, leave. 

 

Especially on the internet.  You're (hopefully) fighting with idiots, don't waste too much time, state your truth.  Let it rest a few days, or find another site, or do something that's actually more productive then arguing with strangers. 

[silent thunder]

no one is any one thing

we all fluidly reside on spectrums of behavior, attitude and attributes.

 

some days we may be compassionate, irracible and outwardly kind

other days, grouchy, irritable and quick to judge

 

fluid, flowing beings

 

not static nouns of one type... ever

[cosmic4z]

1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

Part of the spiritual path is dealing with challenges in life, and learning how to stay centered through them. If it weren't for the challenges, our centering wouldn't really be strong. If we can be truly centered despite anything that happens, fully in control of what we have power over, we've attained something special.

 

Oh, completely agrree; anything that pushes our buttons holds great opportunity for us (learning and growth).

 

Also, about the nice thing; the artofmanliness podcast I linked to earlier is worth a listen. They make some excellent observations re: nice behaviour; that it isn't really nice at all; it's more to do with fear and wanting to avoid conflict at any costs. So, rather than stating your own position or view of thing; you may just say what you think the other person wants to hear, just to avoid upsetting them.

 

Could be, it's this kind of 'nice' behaviour and suppressing anger (or disagreement) that is causing the manifestation of that which I'm supressing. Either way, niceness strikes me as being very unhealthy.

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I didn't realize you are that optimistic of a person.

 

 

 

I was saying  'watch out for that '   in other words

 

Warning Warning  Danger ! 

 

 

[Nungali]

On 14/06/2018 at 12:48 AM, Starjumper said:

Wow, Drew wrote something which is both on topic and comprehensible.  Way to go!  We knew you could do it.

 

It even made sense 

 

< / thread drift>

 

<self edit out > 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Nungali
its a fair cop !

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

This maybe relevant to the thread. Navy seals demonstrate how to survive a knife attack....

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JfAYyZoVy5o

 

Thats just lesson 1 

 

Your new so I will tell you , old members might be sick of  reading it so ...

 

Spoiler

I did a knife defence workshop, went through the usual bad ones and explained why so. went through some better ones.

 

The  I did 'real situation'   (in a large gym hall )

 

1.  Guy pulls knife , I take off out the door .... people wonder where I went  .... I come back in the side door behind the knife guy. They still dont know why I left the room      ... So I explained .

 

2. Now knife guy has got smarter he pulls the knife as he manoeuvrers between me and the door, blocking my exit, so I go the other way, towards a mass of chairs pushed together in the corner. He gets frustrated trying to follow me through them and he " I will catch you eventually . "

 

Me ; " Do you want me to start throwing the chairs at you then ? "   - he decided not .

 

3. Now he has blocked my exit to door and chairs and advancing on me with knife ... I am retreating slowly up the training hall, eventually I back into the weapons rack ... " O  Ho ! "  and grab a large wooden sword   " Come on then ! "

 

 -  Always use your environment as well ....  errrm , one must also be aware of their environment  .   Thats why training outside is good . 

 

Also, never underestimate the unarmed ....  my instructor recently tried an overhead chop at me with a machete  for a little film they were making . He ended up on the ground writhing in pain. The others affirmed to him later that I was not being aggressive or deliberately hurt him, I was fluid and gentle.    But that was with a wooden machete . ('accident' deleted from film     )

 

Not worth even the slightest risk of getting cut by a real one , such defences as above are no choice, last resort actions .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

It even made sense 

 

medication

 

   but still, even though it made sense I didn't agree with it.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Starjumper

[ilumairen]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:52 PM, cosmic4z said:

Dear fellow forum dwellers with an interst in Daoism...

 

Ordinarily, I am (to the best of my knowledge) a calm friendly and reasonable person. I very rarely find myself in conflict with other people. However, recently, I've been coming across quite a few, aggressive, obnoxious, violent types (mostly in actual real life, but you come across them online too, threats of serious violence, people red with anger, etc) which I have found disturbing. I mean, disturbing in the way that it's unsettled or uncentered me.

 

I see two broad issues.

 

1. Why am I recently experiencing a higher incidence of conflict situations than normal.

2. How am I processing and dealing with them (i.e. defending myself).

 

For now, I'm seeing 2 as more urgent to address. It's unreasonable to expect everyone else in the world to be as reasonable (and calm) as yourself; some people just are pissed off at whatever, and want to vent and take it out on anyone, you may not have done anything wrong, but the important thing is can you defend yourself (verbally, emotionally, physically, in everyway)?

 

I don't think I'm making a great job of 2. This ties in with the thread title. I believe a person such as myself, needs more exposure to the thing I'm not dealing with well. I need more people who press my buttons and piss me off and are angry and violent towards me; because it's all grist for the mill, an opportunity to learn and change.

 

Just airing my views. Feel free to share your own insights and thougts on the matter...

 

Holy crapola, I just had an insight, maybe I'm suffering with nice-itis. That's not good.

Hi cosmic4z,

 

This is an interesting topic. And there is soo much that can come into play. 

 

Anger will color any interaction for the person carrying it, and inform their own understanding, responce and reaction to whatever is presented to them.

 

Sometimes it is useful to understand this when confronted with verbal hostility. 

 

Are these individuals co-workers or family members, and where is the expectation of your interaction with their anger?

 

 

[Rara]

On 13/06/2018 at 12:36 PM, cosmic4z said:

 

I find myself trying to reason with these people, getting them to see sense; and in most instances my efforts are futile. Also, trying to rationalise with and get people to see reason, in itself is an investment of time and energy. Not a wise investment at that (where the other person is unwilling or unable to listen and understand).

 

 

Most of the time I keep my head down and just move on.

 

Think of it like school - you have studying to do and there's disruptions all around. Try and carry on but if the noise is too much, take yourself off to a quieter area

[Rara]

20 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

That can be a sign of having an unhealthy relationship with anger. Ever see the movie "Anger Management"? In the movie, Adam Sandler isn't doing anything that would seem like an outburst, but people end up taking it that way from him to the point of him needing court mandated therapy, and it turns out that he does have some seething anger beneath the facade of calm and reaosnable.

Sometimes really nice people have a very strong anger that no one is really aware of, themselves or others, until it comes out in various ways. I have this Buddhist friend who is the most peaceful person, has the most calm eyes, says the nicest thoughts...but if you cross him, he is unforgiving and can't ever let anything go.

These nice people learned at one time, in one way or another, to repress anger completely rather than to just express it and have it be over with.

 

 

Not that we should act as doormats for other people to smear their crap all over, at all...but I think it's good to consider that what we feel is our responsibility, and isn't really the result of anything anyone else does. "He uncentered me"...is actually..."I'm uncentered and blaming it on someone else".

Part of the spiritual path is dealing with challenges in life, and learning how to stay centered through them. If it weren't for the challenges, our centering wouldn't really be strong. If we can be truly centered despite anything that happens, fully in control of what we have power over, we've attained something special.

I'd also like to say: there is room in this world for everybody. They are the spice of life. Without them, what would we have to be dramatic over?

 

Oh, Amen to this. You've nailed it with this post.