Yinja Posted June 15, 2018 I think you will find out you are not as reasonable, calm and friendy person you think you are and maybe even angry and violent. Once you see this whithin yourself and accept it from my experience you will stop meeting it on the outside. but hey, what do i know.. not much. (and even less with everyday that goes by) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 15, 2018 Yeah, it is very difficult to see our own faults. Most times we can't even find the mirror. Of course, I have no faults so what do I know? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daemon Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) I'm really surprised to see that several contributors to this topic seem to be very clear about the centrality of the spiritual practice of shining the Light upon themselves and the vital importance acknowledging that (as mature adults) they are responsible for their own feelings. Unfortunately, toxic religion (as opposed to true spirituality) and toxic societal conditioning means that the vast majority are trapped into positions of being unable to hear their own true feelings and so they're unable to respond healthily and authentically. This means that what's usually observable is reactions of virtue signalling and of blaming others for how they themselves actually feel (scapegoating) because most are no longer able either to contact or to accept their own feelings. This, coupled with the underlying feeling of impotence that it generates, is probably the root cause of why most people seek out positions of power over others and the majority of the observable abusive behaviour on this bulletin board. ☮️ Edited June 15, 2018 by Daemon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted June 16, 2018 12 hours ago, Daemon said: I'm really surprised to see that several contributors to this topic seem to be very clear about the centrality of the spiritual practice of shining the Light upon themselves and the vital importance acknowledging that (as mature adults) they are responsible for their own feelings. ☮️ Why does this surprise you ? 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted June 16, 2018 People compartmentalize. For example: criminals rob, cheat and steal then go home and read bedtime stories to their children. It's not that they love their children therefore they are good people. The one is not related to the other. Such is the way in spiritual matters. One can be devout yet still be angry. One can pray yet still victimize. One can beg to receive mercy yet still give none. Don't try to change people. Work on yourself instead. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Marblehead said: Yeah, it is very difficult to see our own faults. Most times we can't even find the mirror. Of course, I have no faults so what do I know? "you can not judge me" "Its judgment that defeats us" Edited June 16, 2018 by windwalker 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 16, 2018 Once again, to do what needs be done, without judgement. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Quote Aggressive, unpleasant and violent people; do we need more of them? No. However our rulers think we need more of them in order to further their own purposes, which runs along the lines of divide and conquer. People are being trained, at schools mostly I think, to be immature, to be judgmental whiney crybabies, violently so like toddlers who have violent temper tantrums. Another piece of this is they are being mal-educated, particularly in the sciences it seems. Combine these things with the tendency humans have, which is identical to that of rats, to become crazy when they are forced to live in overcrowded conditions like in the big shitties of the world. All the above makes people more fundamentalist in every aspect of life, and more fundamentalism equals more cannon fodder for one thing. More easily manipulated. Edited June 16, 2018 by Starjumper 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic4z Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) When I ask do we need more aggressive, unpleasant people; I don't mean collectively, I mean in terms of the personal challenge they pose to us individually. We should not seek to remove ourselves from them, or to remove them from our space; rather, we should use them to further our own ends / development. Lots of people push my buttons and pizz me off; I think the first challenge for me personally, is not to allow them (or the interaction) to unbalance me on any level. Every unpleasant person I encounter presents me with an opportunity to strengthen that (centered) muscle, such that I am not so easily unbalanced in future. Edited June 16, 2018 by cosmic4z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 17, 2018 “I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.” ~ Khalil Gabran 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 17, 2018 17 hours ago, cosmic4z said: Lots of people push my buttons and pizz me off; I think the first challenge for me personally, is not to allow them (or the interaction) to unbalance me on any level. Every unpleasant person I encounter presents me with an opportunity to strengthen that (centered) muscle, such that I am not so easily unbalanced in future. Perhaps it may be beneficial to look closer at the buttons? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 17, 2018 An old thread I started that is similar in some ways to this thread. Useful or not, is for you to decide. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 20, 2018 How many floor-mats do we need ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Stosh said: How many floor-mats do we need ? As many as you'd like. Honestly, it seems this is a common misconception. And a bit of a trap - perpetuating the same cycles of aggressiveness one may be seeking to avoid. And perhaps planting the seed for aggressiveness in oneself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, ilumairen said: As many as you'd like. Honestly, it seems this is a common misconception. And a bit of a trap - perpetuating the same cycles of aggressiveness one may be seeking to avoid. And perhaps planting the seed for aggressiveness in oneself. What misconception ? spell that out please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Stosh said: What misconception ? spell that out please. The idea of being a floor mat is a misconception. It's an interpretation of events, and a reified sense of self, or fear of being that reified sense of self. I'd like to ask a few questions. Who is giving in more to a verbally aggressive person, the one who fights back, or the one who walks away? And would a verbally aggressive person even be in a place to listen to and actually hear any counter arguments? What purpose does the idea of being a floor mat serve? (And yes, I'm being very specific about verbal aggression. If someone is causing physical harm, do what need be done. And then - walk away.) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ilumairen said: The idea of being a floor mat is a misconception. Not if you know what it means , though you may disagree on who IS one,, and the following seems to aim in that direction . 1 minute ago, ilumairen said: It's an interpretation of events, and a reified sense of self, or fear of being that reified sense of self. I'd like to ask a few questions. Who is giving in more to a verbally aggressive person, the one who fights back, or the one who walks away? Depends on your goals , if I can shove you off your ' food ' ,,, you walk away ,,, you are the one giving in. 1 minute ago, ilumairen said: And would a verbally aggressive person even be in a place to listen to and actually hear any counter arguments? Why should I listen to someone elses argument if it conflicts with my own ? and I can shove you off your food ? 1 minute ago, ilumairen said: What purpose does the idea of being a floor mat serve? You preserve the illusion that if you were a bad person you might've stuck it out , but you didn't so you can say you're better while saving your ego. 1 minute ago, ilumairen said: (And yes, I'm being very specific about verbal aggression. If someone is causing physical harm, do what need be done. And then - walk away.) Verbal is no different IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted June 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, ilumairen said: And would a verbally aggressive person even be in a place to listen to and actually hear any counter arguments? Sometimes yes, if the answer is verbally aggressive but intelligent. Some people start out with a challenge to test you out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Starjumper said: Some people start out with a challenge to test you out. Really? I wasn't aware of that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 Stosh, Your reply was interesting... If you don't think you should have to listen to others who disagree, why should (would) they listen to you? And 'round and 'round it goes. To be clear, when dealing with aggression in people I have close interpersonal relationships with, I generally listen until they talk themselves out. It's generally that they've had a bad day and are stuck in their thoughts. And sometimes I say, that's enough. BTW If you don't see the difference between verbal aggression and physical violence, I can't help but wonder if you have experience with the latter. And the idea of 'good person' is your own. I don't claim to, or try to 'be good'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted June 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, ilumairen said: The idea of being a floor mat is a misconception. It's an interpretation of events, and a reified sense of self, or fear of being that reified sense of self. Would you please elaborate on this? The state as such seems real enough, and there is a Bach Flower remedy for it, BTW. Did you mean that there is a misconception about yourself behind it, though? A game played by the ego? Some kind of "poor me" attitude perhaps? 51 minutes ago, ilumairen said: I'd like to ask a few questions. Who is giving in more to a verbally aggressive person, the one who fights back, or the one who walks away? That's a good question... 51 minutes ago, ilumairen said: And would a verbally aggressive person even be in a place to listen to and actually hear any counter arguments? In some cases, yes. Some people take a verbally aggressive way of communication for granted and even enjoy this kind of exchange. 51 minutes ago, ilumairen said: What purpose does the idea of being a floor mat serve? (And yes, I'm being very specific about verbal aggression. If someone is causing physical harm, do what need be done. And then - walk away.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, Starjumper said: Sometimes yes, if the answer is verbally aggressive but intelligent. Some people start out with a challenge to test you out. I've seen you do this, and I've seen many people not listen to you, although on some occasions they do. Take care old AOL days compatriot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, ilumairen said: I've seen you do this, and I've seen many people not listen to you, although on some occasions they do. Take care old AOL days compatriot. I would accept his challenge. I have always enjoyed mental challenges. It allows me to use my circular logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Marblehead said: I would accept his challenge. I have always enjoyed mental challenges. It allows me to use my circular logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 20, 2018 Michael, You answered your own question. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites