Aggressive, unpleasant and violent people; do we need more of them?

[cosmic4z]

Hahaha. Nice try. Not at all. No insult from me. I'm surprised you perceieved one, I thought we were being jokular! I believe you were the one who introduced the poison theme. I'm not out to poison anyone. Terrible stuff, wouldn't even think of it.

 

All the best. Ciao.

[ilumairen]

6 hours ago, ilumairen said:

And, once again, you're arguing your own constructs. I didn't say, nor do I believe that people are "valueless".

 

This seems pretty direct to me.

 

[Stosh]

13 minutes ago, cosmic4z said:

Hahaha. Nice try. Not at all. No insult from me. I'm surprised you perceieved one, I thought we were being jokular! I believe you were the one who introduced the poison theme. I'm not out to poison anyone. Terrible stuff, wouldn't even think of it.

 

All the best. Ciao.

Ok fine.  We're good .  The poison theme goes back to the art of war thread , most of which I deleted my part in. It got 'lost'. 

[Stosh]

38 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

This seems pretty direct to me.

 

But you never clarified , in that case, then , what the title is supposed to suggest , if- not- that persons of aggressive character were valueless, and imply that you were not of that ilk.

Right now , uncorrected and many posts along , I still think the interpretation is inherent in the words chosen. 

My point all along has been to defend that some aggression , assertion , etc is in fact valuable , and has virtue. 

Few ,, wish to be seen as doormats ,, likewise , few wish to be seen as mad-dogs needing to be put down. 

Some of the most contentious people I know , have been the only ones to watch my back ,

and overwhelmingly present what they deem to be of merit. 

Comparatively , easily 'like-able' people have turned out to be .... gone when I needed them etc. 

 

A friend told me of a TV presentation , factual , where these guys went to the middle east to be mercenaries. 

Both of us thought it seemed extreme and confusing , and wondered who it was that was paying them , turned out , that a church had taken up a collection to send them there , to fight ISIS or somebody.  

I guess I am trying to say that  sometimes things do not make simple sense.  

Edited June 21, 2018 by Stosh

[Wells]

Learn the body language of a psychpath and the sociopaths will leave you alone.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Wells

[Michael Sternbach]

6 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Historical interaction (I entered at page 13):

 

 

Sorry for the cold popcorn... 

 

And mostly I just don't care much for people putting words in mouth, trying to argue against the words they've put together, and basically acting as if they somehow know what I've thought, felt, or experienced better than I.

 

 

Summary of historical background for the sake of the interested third-party reader:

 

The Art of War is a topic I inherited when the original OP announced he could no longer sustain it for personal reasons. Go follow Ilumairen's link above and look it up, folks; it's really a fun thread!

 

Besides a systematic discussion of Sun Tzu's famous book on strategy and warfare, for illustrative purposes, the participants developed a story around a military conflict between 'General Stosh Tzu' and myself (from page 12 on). For the latter had kidnapped the Jade Princess and held the hapless (?) lady captive in a cave full with 'lustrous dwarfs'. Understandably enough, I was sent on a mission to free her by her desperate father, His Majesty, the emperor.

 

At first, Stosh Tzu and I both held our own; the battle between us was tedious and didn't seem to be going anywhere. At some stage, Stosh proposed that we each collaborate with one of the remaining topic participants as our partner. Marblehead was assigned to me (whom I appreciated for his - real-life - strategical expertise), while Stosh decided that Ilumairen should side with him. However, he had neglected to ask her for her approval first (actually, she didn't hide the fact that she was rather critical of his aggressive attitude right from the start). Anyway, enjoying his trust as a member of his army and resorting to her (BTW, real-life) skills as a herbalist, she seemed to tend well to his soldier's well-being at first. However, she turned out to be a *Trojan horse*, "refining" their food with herbs that in fact had a narcotic effect. Consequently, I and my men were having an easy time subduing Stosh's men in their sleep and freeing the Princess.

 

In fact, this was a rather educational example of Sun Tzu's 18. paragraph in chapter 1:

 

All warfare is based on deception.

 

I promised Marblehead long ago that we would treat all the chapters of the Art of War in that thread, and *as it so happens* (), just now, I reopened it and posted the book's second last chapter.

 

 

Ilumairen and Stosh, wouldn't you agree that a conflict that started on a virtual battlefield should be allowed to end there as well? In other words, instead of continuing your back and forth in this thread until the mods might feel they need to chime in:

 

Are you ready for a rematch?

 

And FYI: This time it's going to be Stosh versus Ilumairen. As for myself, I will be watching you guys from a safe distance, enjoying my hot popcorn!

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Michael Sternbach

[Starjumper]

I want popcorn!  Dang, there's no popcorn and I'm 20 miles from the nearest store, which doesn't open till next morning.

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

I want popcorn!

 

Hi Steve,

 

 

 

- Anand

 

[cosmic4z]

Thanks for the history lesson Michael!

 

....and there was I with my size 13 clodhoppers unwittingly tramping across the intricately woven fabric of your community. I hope no lasting damage done.

[cosmic4z]

9 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I want popcorn!  Dang, there's no popcorn and I'm 20 miles from the nearest store, which doesn't open till next morning.

 

Imagine there are other food stuffs you could be growning that may be better for you, but...

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by cosmic4z

[Stosh]

10 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

 

Summary of historical background for the sake of the interested third-party reader:

 

The Art of War is a topic I inherited when the original OP announced he could no longer sustain it for personal reasons. Go follow Ilumairen's link above and look it up, folks; it's really a fun thread!

 

Besides a systematic discussion of Sun Tzu's famous book on strategy and warfare, for illustrative purposes, the participants developed a story around a military conflict between 'General Stosh Tzu' and myself (from page 12 on). For the latter had kidnapped the Jade Princess and held the hapless (?) lady captive in a cave full with 'lustrous dwarfs'. Understandably enough, I was sent on a mission to free her by her desperate father, His Majesty, the emperor.

 

At first, Stosh Tzu and I both held our own; the battle between us was tedious and didn't seem to be going anywhere. At some stage, Stosh proposed that we each collaborate with one of the remaining topic participants as our partner. Marblehead was assigned to me (whom I appreciated for his - real-life - strategical expertise), while Stosh decided that Ilumairen should side with him. However, he had neglected to ask her for her approval first (actually, she didn't hide the fact that she was rather critical of his aggressive attitude right from the start). Anyway, enjoying his trust as a member of his army and resorting to her (BTW, real-life) skills as a herbalist, she seemed to tend well to his soldier's well-being at first. However, she turned out to be a *Trojan horse*, "refining" their food with herbs that in fact had a narcotic effect. Consequently, I and my men were having an easy time subduing Stosh's men in their sleep and freeing the Princess.

 

In fact, this was a rather educational example of Sun Tzu's 18. paragraph in chapter 1:

 

All warfare is based on deception.

 

I promised Marblehead long ago that we would treat all the chapters of the Art of War in that thread, and *as it so happens* (), just now, I reopened it and posted the book's second last chapter.

 

 

Ilumairen and Stosh, wouldn't you agree that a conflict that started on a virtual battlefield should be allowed to end there as well? In other words, instead of continuing your back and forth in this thread until the mods might feel they need to chime in:

 

Are you ready for a rematch?

 

And FYI: This time it's going to be Stosh versus Ilumairen. As for myself, I will be watching you guys from a safe distance, enjoying my hot popcorn!

 

I thought y'all pulled a bunch of unrealistic nonsense out of the ether , but it makes you happier not to see it that way. 

Nor was my intent to be 'vs' Ilumarian this time either , she just chooses it to be, on her part.

Don't be a cheerleader egging on conflict for my benefit. 

 

[Stosh]

13 hours ago, Wells said:

Learn the body language of a psychpath and the sociopaths will leave you alone.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Well that's an interesting clip , If we do not immediately accept the premise that the person narrating knows what they are saying , the great majority of whats presented has no basis to be claimed, based on what is shown , they blink or shake heads or have steady gaze well within the parameters of people one sees daily. Just because one can stop rolling the tape and the eyes will be still on these guys , doesn't mean I cant stop the tape and have the eyes be still on someone else. 

Their diagnoses were made first , and then it is being said that they betray their mindset physically ,, retroactively. IMO

In short, I don't think you can tell anything by looking at them. 

 

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

 

Imagine there are other food stuffs you could be growning that may be better for you, but...

 

 

 

We have grown some corn here and still are.  Since the days here are always 12 hours long the corn never gets sweet like in the US where there are long summer days that are needed to make more sugar in the corn.  I did love eating raw sweet corn in El Norte.  Another thing is that the yellow corn gets worms in it that can eat quite a lot of each ear by the time it's ripe, plus yellow corn may be GMO.  So, I found some corn which is black or very dark purple, and we have experimented with growing that here.  The color indicates it has a lot of extra nutrients, particularly ones that are good for the eyes, and the worms aren't interested in it. We just planted it for the first time last rainy season as an experiment and will plant a lot more at the beginning of the next rainy season, which begins around January.

[Michael Sternbach]

5 hours ago, Stosh said:

I thought y'all pulled a bunch of unrealistic nonsense out of the ether , but it makes you happier not to see it that way. 

Nor was my intent to be 'vs' Ilumarian this time either , she just chooses it to be, on her part.

Don't be a cheerleader egging on conflict for my benefit. 

 

 

No offence meant, Stosh.

 

Just thought that if you guys want to have that kind of discussion in a public thread anyway, why not take it up a notch and do it in a way that is potentially both more constructive and more fun?

 

As I said before... It's all in the game.

 

Guess it has something to do with how I look at life, though.

 

Me, a cheerleader? C'mon, you gotta be kidding me!

 

[Starjumper]

An ongoing discussion in the Bob Dobbs thread brought up some thoughts on aggressive, unpleasant and violent people.  I don't have that kind of people in my face in real life, I guess it has something to do with my aura.  I only get it on forums where people can't see me, and I'll admit I sometimes invite it on forums whereas I don't invite it in real life.

 

It brought up the idea that in an online discussion it can be difficult to tell if someone is aggressive and unpleasant because they are crazy, stupid, uneducated, senile, drunk, stoned, pompous, egomaniacs, infantile, or insane, wait I already said that one; or a combination of the above.

 

Let me know if I left one out.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Starjumper

[Stosh]

Assuming that 1 aggressive 2 unpleasant and 3 violent all go together as a package is unrealistic thinking.

Serial killers , brought up earlier , are often liked by their unsuspecting victims. 

The SWAT or FBI guys could well be described as variously unpleasant and violent or aggressive. 

And actually two of them in the clip appeared pleasantly calm and collected as well as frank. 

There's tons of examples of people who violate the conflation. Sports figures , talk show hosts , politicians etc. 

.. Y'know ,, Like Hillary Clinton.

Fidel Castro was described as Charming and Charismatic , hobnobbing around in New York in the old days and later as  a ruling dictator for over fifty yrs ,, Jesus was crucified around the age of 33 I'm told ,by request of -essentially- his own people. 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Stosh

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

An ongoing discussion in the Bob Dobbs thread brought up some thoughts on aggressive, unpleasant and violent people.  I don't have that kind of people in my face in real life, I guess it has something to do with my aura.  I only get it on forums where people can't see me, and I'll admit I sometimes invite it on forums whereas I don't invite it in real life.

 

It brought up the idea that in an online discussion it can be difficult to tell if someone is aggressive and unpleasant because they are crazy, stupid, uneducated, senile, drunk, stoned, pompous, egomaniacs, infantile, or insane, wait I already said that one; or a combination of the above.

 

Let me know if I left one out.

 

Here's a few .. 

Frustrated , confused, foiled , not- your-cup of tea,

brought up under dysfunctional circumstances , are aspergers types  ,maybe are unskilled in the language and culture .......... or maybe the people they are talking to just bring out the worst in them because they arent as sweet as they might think , themselves. 

Like Pai Mei , he pretty much came off as a real jerk , possibly a sociopath,  like most of the characters in that movie ( which I liked )  , who chopped people up etc and so forth. 

[ilumairen]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:52 PM, cosmic4z said:

I see two broad issues.

 

1. Why am I recently experiencing a higher incidence of conflict situations than normal.

2. How am I processing and dealing with them (i.e. defending myself).

 

For now, I'm seeing 2 as more urgent to address. It's unreasonable to expect everyone else in the world to be as reasonable (and calm) as yourself; some people just are pissed off at whatever, and want to vent and take it out on anyone, you may not have done anything wrong, but the important thing is can you defend yourself (verbally, emotionally, physically, in everyway)?

 

I don't think I'm making a great job of 2. This ties in with the thread title. I believe a person such as myself, needs more exposure to the thing I'm not dealing with well. I need more people who press my buttons and piss me off and are angry and violent towards me; because it's all grist for the mill, an opportunity to learn and change.

 

Just airing my views. Feel free to share your own insights and thougts on the matter...

 

Holy crapola, I just had an insight, maybe I'm suffering with nice-itis. That's not good.

 

Isn't this about finding the value in difficult people as a means of personal growth?

 

[Marblehead]

12 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Isn't this about finding the value in difficult people as a means of personal growth?

 

But we should not place artificial value on those who have no value.

 

(I know, that sounds crude.  I sense it is a truth though.)

 

[ilumairen]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

But we should not place artificial value on those who have no value.

 

(I know, that sounds crude.  I sense it is a truth though.)

 

 

I think the idea of projection can be much bigger than is often considered, and people can put 'goodness' on others - the same as 'ugliness'.

 

And I think this relates to the concept of 'one taste'.

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

I think the idea of projection can be much bigger than is often considered, and people can put 'goodness' on others - the same as 'ugliness'.

 

And I think this relates to the concept of 'one taste'.

I really don't want to take this concept any further.  It's just that it was a thought I wanted to share.

 

[ilumairen]

Just now, Marblehead said:

I really don't want to take this concept any further.  It's just that it was a thought I wanted to share.

 

 

Understood, and thank you for sharing it. 

[Michael Sternbach]

17 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

I think the idea of projection can be much bigger than is often considered, and people can put 'goodness' on others - the same as 'ugliness'.

 

And I think this relates to the concept of 'one taste'.

 

Yes.

 

It happens so easily that we project our dreams and nightmares on another individual. Losing touch with the entirety of their being in the process.

 

But taking those projections back will enable us to appreciate them the way they really are. Expanding our understanding of their nature - as well as our own.

 

When Jesus taught: 'Love your neighbor as yourself', that was another way of saying: 'Take back your projections.'

[Starjumper]

On 6/22/2018 at 4:27 PM, Stosh said:

Here's a few .. 

Frustrated , confused, foiled , not- your-cup of tea,

 

Frustrated and foiled as an excuse for being aggressive falls under the classification of immature, which i already mentioned.

 

Confused does not apply.

 

On 6/22/2018 at 4:27 PM, Stosh said:

brought up under dysfunctional circumstances , are aspergers types  ,maybe are unskilled in the language and culture

 

Wasn't looking for causes or excuses, only current emotional states, so brought up under dysfunctional can lead to neurotic, which is a type of crazy, and I already said that.  Same with Aspergers, it's a type of crazy.  Unskilled in language or culture does not apply.

 

On 6/22/2018 at 4:27 PM, Stosh said:

.... or maybe the people they are talking to just bring out the worst in them because they arent as sweet as they might think , themselves. 

 

I would say that falls under the classification of immaturity, which was already mentioned in my post.

[ilumairen]

I've read aggression defined as not accepting what is. 

 

In this, it could be incredibly subtle, and felt as nothing more than tension. 

 

And some may feel that without this there would be no impetus to change.