Aggressive, unpleasant and violent people; do we need more of them?

[ilumairen]

43 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I've read aggression defined as not accepting what is. 

 

In this, it could be incredibly subtle, and felt as nothing more than tension. 

 

And some may feel that without this there would be no impetus to change.

 

 

 

And to look in a different direction, this post/thread by Zerostao regarding aquiescence. 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

I've read aggression defined as not accepting what is. 

 

In this, it could be incredibly subtle, and felt as nothing more than tension. 

 

And some may feel that without this there would be no impetus to change.

 

 

 

That's an interesting definition.

 

Look at the astrological symbol of Mars, the planet that stands for aggression.

 

 

The circle symbolizes "what is" - the arrow breaks through and goes beyond this.

 

In keeping with that, Seth said that the birth of a child is an act of aggression. (Think of all the blood! )

 

Of course, sometimes accepting what is, is the better course of action (or non-action). And sometimes it's not.

[ilumairen]

7 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Of course, sometimes accepting what is, is the better course of action (or non-action). And sometimes it's not.

 

I think this is dependent upon what is meant with the idea of acceptance. 

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

I think this is dependent upon what is meant with the idea of acceptance. 

It will also be determined by what it is I an expected to accept.  I do have my limits.

 

[Limahong]

30 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

It will also be determined by what it is I an expected to accept.  I do have my limits.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Everything has limits but...

 

 

 

 

Good night.

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

Oh, I have no problem loving myself.

 

I do place expectations on myself but try to not place any on others.  (That last part doesn't always work.)

 

But sure.  Acceptance for what is and cannot be changed is important.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

13 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

I think this is dependent upon what is meant with the idea of acceptance. 

 

How would you define it?

[Marblehead]

Very carefully.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

As much as I appreciate your view, I'm asking Ilumairen for hers.

[Marblehead]

10 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

As much as I appreciate your view, I'm asking Ilumairen for hers.

I was aware of that.

 

[ilumairen]

Acceptance should be understood in the context it is used. 

 

And in the context of the above definition of aggression being a lack of acceptance, it should be contemplated and carefully understood. 

 

It isn't defeatist or nihilistic, and if the understanding leads to either, imo, it is 'wrong understanding'.

 

If it is used to justify complacency and stagnation this would also be wrong understanding imo.

 

[ilumairen]

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Very carefully.

 

 

Exactly.

[Michael Sternbach]

56 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Acceptance should be understood in the context it is used. 

 

And in the context of the above definition of aggression being a lack of acceptance, it should be contemplated and carefully understood. 

 

It isn't defeatist or nihilistic, and if the understanding leads to either, imo, it is 'wrong understanding'.

 

If it is used to justify complacency and stagnation this would also be wrong understanding imo.

 

 

Let me put it this way:

 

So you shared what acceptance (the way you understand it) DOES NOT imply. Yet your statements suggest its universal applicability, independently from the course of action subsequently chosen.

 

So what DOES it imply? 

 

 

[ilumairen]

21 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Let me put it this way:

 

So you shared what acceptance (the way you understand it) DOES NOT imply. Yet your statements suggest its universal applicability, independently from the course of action subsequently chosen.

 

So what DOES it imply? 

 

 

 

Inner peace. 

 

Inner direction informing action from a place of peace.

 

And there are yet further subtleties, and more refinement, and deeper understandings. 

 

BTW I'd prefer if you didn't concretize my understanding of a word, as there are multiple definitions and, as I've already stated, understanding is dependent on context. 

 

Further, it was something I once came across presented for consideration. If it resonates and is found useful, or is found to be useless and a bunch of bs is for any individual to determine for themselves. 

[Marblehead]

18 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

If it resonates and is found useful,

You've got it.

 

[liminal_luke]

Can I take a stab?

 

People balk at the idea of acceptance because some things are so clearly "wrong" or "bad" -- how could it possibly be OK to accept them?  In this view, change and acceptance are experienced to be at odds.  If you accept something you don`t seek to change it; that`s why bad things should not be accepted.  Or so the story goes.

 

I think it`s more complicated than this.  Let`s look at change and acceptance on a nuts and bolts level.  I`ll take an example from my own life: my desire to lose weight.  My experience tells me that if I don`t accept my body as it is now, my weight loss attempts won`t go smoothly.  Ironically, it`s the acceptance of present conditions that opens the door for change.  Telling myself that I`m bad for being overweight leads me to eat more donuts, not less.  

 

Although that`s a personal example, I think the idea has wide application.  Aren`t there plenty of examples of history where people revolt against oppressive regimes only to turn in time to resemble their former oppressors?  Oftentimes the appearance of drastic change masks, well, not much change at all.

 

Here`s my definition of aggression: an attempt to change conditions that doesn`t originate from a place of acceptance.

 

A definition of acceptance: that state of being rooted in silence and inner peace such that one is free to optimally respond to outer conditions in a conscious way rather than being unconsciously swept in a direction by internal forces outside of awareness.

 

(As I wrote this, @ilumairen post came in.   Ilumairen states:  Inner direction informing action from a place of peace.  This is essentially what I`m trying to get at  --much less succinctly.)

Edited June 26, 2018 by liminal_luke

[ilumairen]

29 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Here`s my definition of aggression: an attempt to change conditions that doesn`t originate from a place of acceptance.

 

A definition of acceptance: that state of being rooted in silence and inner peace such that one is free to optimally respond to outer conditions in a conscious way rather than being unconsciously swept in a direction by internal forces outside of awareness.

 

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Acceptance should be understood in the context it is used.

 

Hi ilumairen,

 

Good that you relate your idea of acceptance to context.

 

 

 

Define "definition" contextually and...

 

7 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Very carefully.

  

and...

 

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Exactly.

 

 

To each his/her own - with responsibility and accountability.

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Here`s my definition of aggression: an attempt to change conditions that doesn`t originate from a place of acceptance.

 

Hi liminal_luke,

 

Your definition is interesting.

 

Aggression  - non-acceptance of original conditions of acceptance?

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I was aware of that.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Can I add a little...?

 

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

You've got it

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

From - The Wondering Taoist?

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

From - The Wondering Taoist?

 

- LimA

I don't do men.

 

[Limahong]

23 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I don't do men.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

You know what I am saying? I wonder also as a Taoist.

 

Good night.

 

- LimA