Are you sure about the existance of Chi?

[howabouttao]

[wudangspirit]

[VeeCee]

[Wayfarer64]

If we can express & share various experiences of something and be understood , then it would seem that these shared experiences are imperically real enough to be shared in conversation and related to...

 

What is IS...it has been named and developed for centuries... why do you doubt the obvious understanding of chi expressed in these threeads?

 

Imagination plays no part in the experiences we describe as qi/chi related.

 

Namaste-

[Taoist81]

No no, please do not allow your skepticism to die! It is in far too short a supply nowadays (as it has commonly been in the past).

"Qi's nature" is still debated among many circles (though not usually this group). Many would say that it is "real" because "master so and so made me shake with his qi". Or because "I could feel the qi coursing through me" or...whatever. As you note, albeit indirectly, everything we "experience" is in the mind. An amputee can often "feel" his leg aching even though it was removed years ago. A Pentecostal can "feel" the Holy Ghost overcoming them, and can "feel" the surge of ecstatic energy flowing through a charismatic ministers hands. A Spiritualist's personality is "completely blocked out" by a possessing spirit.... Is any of it "real"? The bottom line, and the only thing that can be demonstrated (at least to some extent) is that there is a phenomenon, that can be experienced that was given the name in China "Qi". When it is experienced it is often felt as flowing through meridians in the body. Usually only after training (and learning the traditional paths of said meridians) is the qi felt as flowing properly. This could lend credence to the idea that you are simply training your mind to behave in a particular way, or to the idea that most people actually have to clear out blockages. Since qi is not detectable (at least not yet) in any way other than personal "feeling" there is no way to prove conclusively either way. When individuals are "thrown" or "moved" by a master's qi it is often only after training with said master (or a similar teacher like one of said master's students) that the novice can even "feel" the master's qi. In other cases it is a particularly charismatic master (either in presence or in actual charisma) and the effect can be interpreted in a similar way as effects during a first visit to a Pentecostal church. Not everyone feels it or experiences it in the same way. Likewise, not all cancers go into remission, while some do spontaneously. Is this qi? Who knows. Again, the bottom line is that there is an experience that is known as qi. Is it an "energy" like electricity, or is it a descriptive term for a properly functioning mind-body connection that our evolution has predisposed our brains to interpret in a particular way? Does it matter? Is anything, the pleasure of sex, the smell of a rose, the wonderful feeling of a cool breeze, happening anywhere other than in your brain?

As for healing, there are reaches and limits that some can reach and others can't. That is life. That is something that some call Karma, which is a whole different debate. Just $0.02.

[rene]

.... is it a descriptive term for a properly functioning mind-body connection that our evolution has predisposed our brains to interpret in a particular way?

 

That gets my vote. Seems we sure like to give what we experience a name. In this case, Chi.

 

In another case, Tao.

 

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howabouttao - hi and welcome.

 

No matter what you end up calling what you experience, keeping in mind that people describe, and sometimes label, the same thing or experience in different ways - might help you keep things sorted.

 

As far as why others don't or can't "heal themselves" - might reflect only on understanding or expectations of something, rather than the "something" (whatever its called) existing at all.

 

Which is why about the only way to explore this would be to keep in mind what you feel and experience, then as you read these words or those words, whichever words ring the most true for you, that might be the path to explore.

 

Good luck in your search.

[minkus]

Edited January 30, 2008 by minkus

[howabouttao]

[rain]

..............

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[Buddy]

..."hokuspokus buddy hokuspokus..."

 

I have, until now, stayed out of this topic.

[Guest winpro07]

Edited February 11, 2008 by winpro07

[rain]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[hagar]

This is really a good question.

 

Chi is not real, in the conventional sense.

 

Healing is mostly a matter of fate, not will.

 

h

[rene]

... But if it is all in the mind, then believing ..(whatever).. will again take you only so far

 

It's only the "mind" that thinks there's somewhere you need to go.

 

Of the mind, be mindful. <--I dont remember who said that. Some Jedi master, no doubt.

[Uncle Fester]

Edited January 30, 2008 by darebak

[seadog]

Hi Howabouttao.

Much of chinese medicine is based on Qi. Acupuncture directly effects the qi of your body.If you have doubts of the reality of qi arrange to see a qualified exprienced acupuncturist.Have a treatment and analize the effect of the treatment.Take careful note of how your body is feeling before during and after treatment. Note how your body feels when the needle is inserted.

 

Opening up your meridians and filling your body with Qi doesn't make you a spiritual person. Imho reconising that every one and everything is extension of yourself is the first step on the path.

[Oolong Rabbit]

[Buddy]

And yet, one might wonder why Bruce isn't a better person all around, in addition to the health aspect. The same might be asked about some of his students.

[Oolong Rabbit]

And yet, one might wonder why Bruce isn't a better person all around, in addition to the health aspect. The same might be asked about some of his students.

 

Aren't you one of his students Buddy? And I am not so sure having strong chi = spirituality anymore than having large muscles means one is healthy.

[Buddy]

I was many years ago. It's not just the neigong. He teaches his version of Daoist meditation as well.

[Oolong Rabbit]

I was many years ago. It's not just the neigong. He teaches his version of Daoist meditation as well.

 

I know. I have his 2 books on Water Method Meditation as well as Opening the Energy Gates and Power of the Internal Arts. I have only had a chance to read the latter 2 books though, not the water method ones. Yes I would think the water meditation and breathing would mellow one out, but I have never met him in person. It sounds like you have an axe to grind with BKF though.

[Buddy]

Not at all. I'm glad I met him when I did (late 80s). If you meet him then we'll have common ground to discuss him, otherwise I'll just the leave subject where it is.

[rene]

From StarTrekIV

[McCoy trying to discuss what death was like with Spock]

 

McCoy: Perhaps we can cover a little philosophical ground. Life, death, life. Things of that nature.

Spock: I did not have time on Vulcan to review the philosophical disciplines.

McCoy: C'mon Spock, it's me, McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like?

Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference

McCoy: You're joking.

Spock: A joke...is...a story with a humorous climax.

McCoy: You mean I have to die to discuss your insights on death?

Spock: Forgive me Doctor. I'm receiving a number of distress calls.

McCoy: I don't doubt it.

[Starjumper]

To the original questioner. It is easy to determine that chi is real. If I shine my hands on an unbeliever and they feel it then it makes them believers and it validates my own knowing.

 

Chi can heal but it will not do miraculous healing, that's a different ballgame. Oftentimes a person will have good healing ability on others but will not be good at using their own ability on themselves, either through negligence, karma, or because the injury is simply something which is beyond their capacity to work with. Healing abilities with chi are on an inverse proportional scale. The fewest have the most and the most have fairly little.

[mbanu]

Edited January 31, 2008 by mbanu