Yi Gong/Kunlun/Spontaneous Qigong Questions

[Kongming]

So I have a couple of questions relating to Yi Gong/Kunlun and associated terms for the common practice between them all. Please feel free to answer any one of the following questions:

 

1. Anyone still doing this practice? Seems going back about 10 years ago or so it was quite popular on this forum. If so what can you say long term practice has done for you?

 

2. What is the central goal or object of this project? What is it supposed to do in terms of ones qi, qimai, spiritual growth, and its relation to general Daoist cultivation?

 

3. Is practicing this compatible with other practices such as general qigong/neigong? In particular, does it conflict with neidan or the goals of neidan? Can it be beneficial to someone who hasn't begun serious neidan as a sort of preparatory practice?

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

1. Anyone still doing this practice?

 

I think about doing it again from time to time, but chose a different path which doesn't work so well with it.

 

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

2. What is the central goal or object of this project?

 

The Kunlun school had (maybe still has?) red phoenix and kunlun method united at the heart of it, to cause the 'gold dragon body' effect...which in my estimation, is kind of like completely dissolving into the source (physically, too) while still being human. Apparently they could take pictures of people experiencing this and it looks like they're disappearing...not sure if those weren't just photoshopped, but I did feel this effect happening a few times. To me it felt like an emptiness or void, similar to who I am, to the feeling of being perfectly eternally at home and normal, descended from the head down through the center of the body and made who I think I am (my body, etc) seem to feel as if it weren't really there.

Yigong is what Jenny Lamb was teaching, which apparently was a preparatory physical method for later work that involves more spiritual stuff like manifesting.

 

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

What is it supposed to do in terms of ones qi, qimai, spiritual growth, and its relation to general Daoist cultivation?

 

In all honesty, I think spiritual growth is another matter...growth depends on the type of person you are, more so than a method that causes an effect. Even Max himself told us in a class, you can have a practitioner with the brightest halo as a result of their cultivation methods, but they can actually be evil in their heart...such a practitioner is not spiritually mature.

For me, the methods caused some positive as well as negative symptoms in terms of health. It was explained that negative stuff was purification happening, which looking back, may have been the case. Positive stuff was like blood pressure going from prehypertension down to normal.

I think it opens up a lot of stuff, so one could say that the qi flowed much better and stronger. Analyzing it, I think the method affects the kidney channel, the qiao mai, ren mai, and chong mai...and through those, has more wide reaching effects.

I've always found it super challenging to pin down exactly what it's all about...it's a very mysterious practice. At least in my experience, pretty much anything I say about it later on seems to be inadequate or even wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

3. Is practicing this compatible with other practices such as general qigong/neigong?

 

Generally I think no, unless it's just a physical exercise type like the eight brocades. It's hard to say what will cause problems with it...for most people, they don't have the ability to discern for themselves, and can end up causing some damage.

 

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

In particular, does it conflict with neidan or the goals of neidan?

 

I think one could say that it is neidan, and not be entirely wrong. But it might be important to note that it's said to come from the Shangqing/Maoshan school, which to really sum things up badly, was originally more about divination and internal deity meditations, than about internal alchemy.

[beingnature]

I came into field of "spontaneous" "qigong" through practicing standing and sitting meditation.Since it started , like maybe 7 years ago i just stand or sit go into a certain meditative state and it starts by itself.it can be really intense and even a little overwhelming at some times but its like i always " get what i need ".

Experienced some mystical experiences and altered states of mind that lasted also through the daytime.what i gained from it... nearly effortless power in daily activities, like walking, running, riding bycicle, doing my household,  lifting objects. Mentally and emotionally states of clearer perception and a deep peace, appreciation for everything. During practice i experience all kinds of daoist practice like, circle walking and running, xinyi and taiji like movements,  healing sounds, spontaneous mantras, drunken immortal like movements, hand seals, healing abilities ( in person and long distance ) .And yes as far as i understand neidan practice is also there . Maybe look into the personal discussion thread of my friend @Earl Grey  .He is into spontaneous 5 animals qigong.

In my personal practice you can also find some youtube clips doing spontaneous qigong.

Edited June 23, 2018 by NATURE BEEING

[Vincent B.]

On 6/23/2018 at 10:39 PM, NATURE BEEING said:

I came into field of "spontaneous" "qigong" through practicing standing and sitting meditation.Since it started , like maybe 7 years ago i just stand or sit go into a certain meditative state and it starts by itself.it can be really intense and even a little overwhelming at some times but its like i always " get what i need ".

Experienced some mystical experiences and altered states of mind that lasted also through the daytime.what i gained from it... nearly effortless power in daily activities, like walking, running, riding bycicle, doing my household,  lifting objects. Mentally and emotionally states of clearer perception and a deep peace, appreciation for everything. During practice i experience all kinds of daoist practice like, circle walking and running, xinyi and taiji like movements,  healing sounds, spontaneous mantras, drunken immortal like movements, hand seals, healing abilities ( in person and long distance ) .And yes as far as i understand neidan practice is also there . Maybe look into the personal discussion thread of my friend @Earl Grey  .He is into spontaneous 5 animals qigong.

In my personal practice you can also find some youtube clips doing spontaneous qigong.

 

inspiring  I 'fell' into this after some time practicing standing... my body just moves and I try to let it happen, it's an eternal dance between not trying to amplify the movement because I somehow feel it's gonna bring release and not trying to prevent it even slightly because I'm afraid I'm gonna hurt myself and the more I zoom in the more I discover it's almost always the same thing at a different level, I can always let go a bit more and I'm the only one preventing further progress. The same patterns comes again and again until I can let go enough and then something else happens. Some things takes weeks some years. It's been a rough ride and the movements used to be really wild, nowadays it's a bit more gentle even if if it's painful, but I still feel like a perpetual beginner. I'm quite new here and mostly reading old posts, but I feel a bit less alone reading comments like yours.

[rideforever]

Recently been doing this practice got both Max's books, Jenny Lambs' DVDs, and there is also a teacher called Hozen at a Taiwan Kunlun monastery that has some nice videos on youtube.
Part of the practice to do with raising the heels is a discharge triggering practice that is also used in T.R.E (trauma releasing exercises) and triggers the discharge of material built up in the subconscious.  Likewise with the allowing of movements, you are allowing the subconscious to unwind itself using its natural cleaning.   This is similar to bioenergetic shaking practice.
To allow the subconscious to lead you is a big thing because you are letting the ancient subconsscious animal have control.  This is very interesting because it is possibly that the subconscious is actually what is most real and most spiritual in us.   However I have a sense it could be unsafe if that person is not very conscious in the head, or if the subconsciousness is too wild and not centered ... so it would be good theoretically to add those practices in if you are not already doing them.
So, theoretically I would say that one should also be working on becoming conscious (present in the thinker, at the front of the head ... for instance 3rd eye meditation or golden flower), and also present in the solar plexus which is the mind-centre of the subconscious (for instance standing pole hands at sp).   These practices put you in the driving seat of both the conscious and subconscious minds.   Which is quite different to just letting the wild animal do its thing in spontaneous qigong.
Altogether powerful practices.
Also doing T.R.E is good and discharges more quickly and is more benign.
And from years of experience ... there is little point pumping chi around if you have trauma splits (fragmentation of the subconscious) ... which are actively recreating blockages in the present.... it would be 100 times faster to use trauma discharging than to fix it with chi.
I can't say I am 100% sure about all of this, but some thoughts.

[mark]

Does anyone have more information about red phoenix and its different levels?

[Aetherous]

On 11/30/2018 at 7:42 AM, mark said:

Does anyone have more information about red phoenix and its different levels?

 

First level basically has to do with the upper dantian. 2nd level takes that red phoenix energy cultivated throughout the entire being (although that already happens to some extent with just the 1st level). 3rd level is a specific "mantra" and mudra movement. I've heard there's a 4th level but am not sure I learned it. The version of these various levels that you learn differs depending on how Max teaches it that time; there are variations on the basic theme. I think traditionally you did the 1st level until you were ready for the next, and I don't know what would indicate to the instructor that you were ready. There's a hands on red phoenix transmission that is to be given for level 1, which I think facilitators, apprentices, instructors are trained to do. Just what I think about it, could be wrong.

[freeform]

The Kunlun system is very different to most other traditions. 

 

The emphasis is on the ‘downwards flow’. The whole neigong process is flipped upside down. You start with the Upper Dan Tien and when that develops sufficiently, it moves down. Often you develop the Yin Qi before the Yang Qi. It works on the central channel pretty much straight away.

 

I trained with Max for a while. Spent some time at his house etc. But I still don’t really understand the process. I believe Max actually went through the normal neigong process, and then ‘discovered’ this reverse method. The method is heavily dependent on transmission, empowerments and then letting go.

 

The spontaneous movement aspect of the art is actually common to most (authentic) neigong systems. There are exceptions of course. It’s one of the fastest ways of clearing the channels on very deep levels. It’s known as Zifa Gong in most traditions.

 

Its important to realise that the Zifa Gong process is a process of clearing. It’s not spiritual or mystical. The movements, chanting, mudras, postures that come up are to be ignored or treated as irrelevant. This is just debris clearing through. The process needs to move towards stillness. It’s very easy to get attached and trapped in the process. There are many schools where people do zifa gong for decades. This is a major error.

 

For many people, experiencing zifa gong for the first time is confirmation that Qi is real, that neigong is a real, unsubtle process - and they get fixated on this part of the training. In reality it’s an early to mid stage of development within neigong and as long as you progress correctly, it comes to an end.

 

 

 

 

[Master of no significance]

Hi all, I opened up a thread but noone replied so I thought I ask directly those who engage in these practices:

Anyone practices pontaneous/ZifaGong with Music?

What Kind of Music do you "use/recommend"?

Do you focus your choice on spiritual qualities ("aura", "fragrance", "channeling", "peacefulness" ....) activating rhythm, relaxing mood, enhancing fluidity or hat else?

Thanks

(sorry to bother you on several Threads, I will be done REALLY soon ;-)

[ilumairen]

On 8/17/2020 at 4:12 PM, Master of no significance said:

Hi all, I opened up a thread but noone replied so I thought I ask directly those who engage in these practices:

Anyone practices pontaneous/ZifaGong with Music?

What Kind of Music do you "use/recommend"?

Do you focus your choice on spiritual qualities ("aura", "fragrance", "channeling", "peacefulness" ....) activating rhythm, relaxing mood, enhancing fluidity or hat else?

Thanks

(sorry to bother you on several Threads, I will be done REALLY soon ;-)

A report was received on this post. It is one of seven verbatim posts made over a period of 15 minutes spanning seven different threads. 
 

It is presently under review.