Is there any actual physiological changes in the abdomen when the lower dantian gets filled with qi?

[Phoenix3]

I don’t mean the usual changes in sensation (like changes in temperature), but is there any physical change?

Edited June 17, 2018 by Phoenix3

[Cheshire Cat]

On one side, you have the big belly Tai chi masters legacy... On the other, you have the various qigong specialists shaolin monks who don't have the big belly. 

 

Both groups perform Dan tien meditation. 

[CityHermit!]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, Phoenix3 said:

I don’t mean the usual changes in sensation (like changes in temperature), but is there any physical change?

Appetite? Digestion? Metabolism? Just some thoughts though I'm wondering if these changes would not be associated with Dan Tian practice. I would venture as far to say perhaps proprioception in as far as one connects what is gained with the rest of the body and movement thereof.

Edited June 19, 2018 by CityHermit!
fixing a sentence

[voidisyinyang]

Watch this vid - you see the "ball of qi" in the lower tan t'ien - it is described as strong pressure like a basketball - and also it can be moved up and down as shown in the vid.

[Phoenix3]

 

9 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

Watch this vid - you see the "ball of qi" in the lower tan t'ien - it is described as strong pressure like a basketball - and also it can be moved up and down as shown in the vid.

 

Thanks! That is an amazing video, but I made this thread because you said previously that qi is built in the body due to neurones increasing their myelination, enabling them to contain more energy and hence more qi. But I researched that, and it doesn’t seem that the nerves can increase their myelination when one becomes an adult. 

 

So I’m still not sure what this qi/ball of qi is. It seems to be an increase in electromagnetism which must mean a physiological change in one’s nervous system, but I just don’t understand it. We can’t seem to grow nerves, increase myelination, etc. 

[voidisyinyang]

19 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

 

Thanks! That is an amazing video, but I made this thread because you said previously that qi is built in the body due to neurones increasing their myelination, enabling them to contain more energy and hence more qi. But I researched that, and it doesn’t seem that the nerves can increase their myelination when one becomes an adult. 

 

So I’m still not sure what this qi/ball of qi is. It seems to be an increase in electromagnetism which must mean a physiological change in one’s nervous system, but I just don’t understand it. We can’t seem to grow nerves, increase myelination, etc. 

 

Oh - good question! The answer is in my "Idiot's Guide" pdf....

 

http://perceivebelieve.tumblr.com/post/159904989496/the-idiots-guide-to-taoist-alchemy-qigong

 

Here this version we can cut and paste...

 

so I will now search "growing nerves"

 

hit:

Quote

 

One of the Qi healing training schools emphasizes instead of increasing jing hormone energy, the qi school increases “nerve fiber” axion growth. Sure enough science has as of 2016 proven the key to growing nerves:  

LIPUS of 250 mW/cm² significantly induced faster rate of axonal regeneration.

As Dr. Hameroff details - the quantum microtubules in neurons switch between classical and quantum realms, (i.e. quantum chaos) just as music uses different frequencies, but ultrasound has the strongest amplitude resonance with the non-local quantum entanglement as consciousness.

 

 

[idquest]

1 hour ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

So I’m still not sure what this qi/ball of qi is. It seems to be an increase in electromagnetism which must mean a physiological change in one’s nervous system, but I just don’t understand it. We can’t seem to grow nerves, increase myelination, etc. 

 

It is likely that change occurs in the connective tissue rather than in nerves. A number of respected practitioners have this opinion. It is difficult to verify but you can safely take it as a working hypothesis. As for the changes in the abdomen, it is likely that the connective tissue either grow with practice or becomes more conductive. Again, nobody really knows. 

 

[joeblast]

1 hour ago, idquest said:

 

It is likely that change occurs in the connective tissue rather than in nerves. A number of respected practitioners have this opinion. It is difficult to verify but you can safely take it as a working hypothesis. As for the changes in the abdomen, it is likely that the connective tissue either grow with practice or becomes more conductive. Again, nobody really knows. 

 

imo, it does become more conductive...the gut has similar properties to a battery, or a capacitor - a path of higher conductive material, surrounded by a bunch of lower conductive material.

 

so in my experience....gung can easily be destroyed....but the higher conductivity will stay as an attribute when the gung is destroyed.

[Phoenix3]

What’s gung?

[voidisyinyang]

3 hours ago, idquest said:

 

It is likely that change occurs in the connective tissue rather than in nerves. A number of respected practitioners have this opinion. It is difficult to verify but you can safely take it as a working hypothesis. As for the changes in the abdomen, it is likely that the connective tissue either grow with practice or becomes more conductive. Again, nobody really knows. 

 

Dr. Stuart Hameroff has provided the biological connection to quantum consciousness via the ultrasound resonance of microtubules (

Discovery of quantum vibrations in 'microtubules’ corroborates theory of consciousness

2014) - collaborating with quantum cosmologist Roger Penrose. Dr. Hameroff has even tested his own brain, reporting increased bliss from ultrasound treatment.

Low-intensity pulsed ultrasound treatment improved the rate of autograft peripheral nerve regeneration in rat

 

So the microtubules are the "connective tissue" - it is the collagen, the most common protein in the body and the most piezoelectric.

So it emits ultrasound under pressure - and this causes the nerves to grow.

[Phoenix3]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

So it emits ultrasound under pressure

 

1. Collagen releases ultrasound? I can’t find anything about this online. I thought piezoelectric meant that it releases electric charge when being subjected to pressure (not ultrasound)? How does it do it?

 

2. There’s no way to put pressure upon the connective tissue deep inside the body without seriously damaging the body. And I don’t see how qigong would put pressure on the collagen to release piezoelectricity either. So how is collagen put under pressure to emit this low intensity ultrasound?

 

3. The study you mention only says that low-intensity ultrasound only regenerates existing damaged nerves. It doesn’t create new nerves.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Phoenix3

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

1. Collagen releases ultrasound? I can’t find anything about this online. I thought piezoelectric meant that it releases electric charge when being subjected to pressure (not ultrasound)? How does it do it?

 

2. There’s no way to put pressure upon the connective tissue deep inside the body without seriously damaging the body. And I don’t see how qigong would put pressure on the collagen to release piezoelectricity either. So how is collagen put under pressure to emit this low intensity ultrasound?

 

Suction. You are defining pressure based on a material foundation of reality. The suction is the Yuan Qi - as reverse time energy or noncommutative phase. To quote Victor Schauberger: "Suction plus Pressure = Reduction of REsistance." - so it is macroquantum coherence as superconducting proton-proton energy or proticity. It is created by virtual photon energy. That is the reference to Dr. Stuart Hameroff's research.

 

As for collagen and ultrasound and piezoelectricity - let's go back to the Idiot's Guide to see what we find.

Quote

asymmetric lecithin is piezoelectric.

So it's not JUST collagen - the alchemical "pill" is also ionized lecithin which myelinates the nerves.

So here collagen is shown to emit biophotons.

The Thermodynamics of Thought: Sound pressure and solitons pdf 2013

The crystal strains (expands or contracts) when a voltage is applied. When the voltage is reversed, the strain is reversed. This is known as the piezoelectric effect.Oscillation is sustained by taking a voltage signal from the resonator, amplifying it, and feeding it back to the resonator. The rate of expansion and contraction is the resonance frequency and is determined by the cut and size of the crystal. The output frequency of a quartz oscillator is either the fundamental resonance or a multiple of the resonance, called an overtone frequency. Most high stability units use either the third or fifth overtone to achieve a high Q. Overtones higher than fifth are rarely used because they make it harder to tune the device to the desired frequency. A typical Q for a quartz oscillator ranges from 104 to 106. The maximum Q for a high stability quartz oscillator can be estimated as Q = 1.6 ´ 107/f, where f is the resonance frequency in megahertz [ultrasound]. Fundamentals of Time and Frequency pdf

 

Frank Znidarsic discovered that at 10 microns, the wavelength of collagen, inside atoms the speed of light slows down to ultrasound frequency. So the speed of sound inside the fluid of the molecules actually becomes the “quantum transition” energy to resonate photons and to split water into superconducting proton-proton Yuan Qi energy. The lecithin gets ionized into a nonlinear quantum relativity soliton so that increased piezoelectric collagen pressure actually causes the denser lecithin to travel at faster speed and higher frequency of energy as increased qi energy.

Dr. Mae-Wan Ho:

Quote

…ultrasound emissions from mechanoelastic vibrations caused by electrical pulses applied to the tissues. Muscle physiologists have long detected sounds from working muscles, but have treated them as distracting noise when electrical or mechanical signals are being recorded…. the memory of our body, inhering in the liquid crystalline continuum, were to exist in a quantum holographic form. Rainbow and the Worm, p. 192, p. 195

Quote

The adiabatic nature of the nerve pulse combined with the mechanical changes and the physical size of the pulse, indicates that the nerves pulses could be a type of sound wave. This deduction lead to the proposal of the Soliton model by Heimburg and Jackson in 2005 [26]. 2014 Soliton Sound nerves Ph.D. thesis pdf …. The soliton is locally pushing the lipid membrane into its lipid melting transition as it propagates….The propagation of the soliton will result in changes in thickness of the membrane and also have an electrical component, both observed during the propagation of nerve signals….Interestingly the inverse piezoelectrical effect means that an electrical change has a mechanical response,allowing for a coupling between electrical stimulation and the excitation of a soliton….This means that the dispersion and non-linearity of the speed of sound are tightly coupled through their dependency on the state of the lipid membrane

So mechanical means sound waves or acoustic oscillations.

 

Quote

 

membranes have focused on the ultrasonic regime [9,14–16], and it has clearly been demonstrated that dispersion exists in this frequency regime….nerve fibers swell during the nerve pulse [37{39, 114, 115]….the Soliton model the mechanical changes are the one that cause the electrical signal and they represent two aspects of the same pulse….other membrane adhesive molecules with large dipoles can be used to create an asymmetric membrane, e.g., soluble proteins or lipid-associated molecules such
as long-chain sugars. Depending on the nature of the asymmetry, the system can display piezoelectric properties.

 

Quote

3. The study you mention only says that low-intensity ultrasound only regenerates existing damaged nerves. It doesn’t create new nerves.

 

 

To grow new translates as "genesis" so "to grow new nerves" is "neurogenesis."

Quote

MR-guided FUS are crucial for stimulating the generation of new neurons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4961388/

 

MR-guided Focused ULtrasound.

 

Quote

In adult mice, FUS treatment significantly increased the number of proliferating cells and newborn neurons in the dentate gyrus of the dorsal hippocampus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24629831

 

Ultrasound at 50 microwatts/cm squared activated acupuncture point as quantum coherence

Dr. Mae-Wan Ho:

Quote

On that basis of the 100-fold difference in electrical conductivity along the fibre compared to that across the fibre, it would be expected that collagens fibres will align in the direction of the applied electric field. Julian Haffegee in our laboratory has confirmed this, and has achieved the first successful alignment of collagen fibres under self-assembly by weak electromagnetic
fields.24 This work has important implications for wound healing and regeneration, as the movement of cells are known to be guided by oriented collagen fibres in the extracellular matrix.

Rainbow and the Worm, p. 190.

People can use

ultrasound machines

with the effect of:

Quote

Vigorous heating, or an increase of 4°C or more, has been suggested to alter the viscoelastic properties of collagen and inhibit sympathetic activity.^10–13

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Phoenix3]

Sorry, I think I was looking at a different study. Seems like you’re right anyway.

On 20/06/2018 at 2:38 AM, voidisyinyang said:

Vigorous heating, or an increase of 4°C or more, has been suggested to alter the viscoelastic properties of collagen and inhibit sympathetic activity.^10–13

1. I’m curious how this is relevant. What good does inhibiting sympathetic activity (I assume this means decreasing its electric conductivity) do?

 

2. If not ejaculating and not seeing beautiful women is what builds lecithin, and lecithin is what builds qi through the myelination of the nerves, then why don’t disabled people, monks, and similar people have lots of qi? I’m sure at least a third of those people are in situations where they cannot ejaculate either physically or don’t have the opportunity. Is it all because they don’t meditate?

 

3. You say yuan qi provides suction, and this causes collagen to release low intensity ultrasound, but how can something so incredibly subtle and impalpable such as qi, cause such an amount of suction that it affects something gross and dense like collagen (which is said to be stronger than steel), to such a magnitude that it releases ultrasound? It doesn’t seem possible.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Phoenix3

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Phoenix3 said:

Sorry, I think I was looking at a different study. Seems like you’re right anyway.

1. I’m curious how this is relevant. What good does inhibiting sympathetic activity (I assume this means decreasing its electric conductivity) do?

 

You ask me a lot of questions but are you not able to learn on your own? I am just curious that you do not seem interested in doing your own research? Are you practicing "willful ignorance"? So when you say you "assume" - I do not think that is correct. But you can always challenge your own assumptions right? So the quote - gives references. So then we just look at what the references say.

 

But before doing so - if you read the "Idiot's Guide" as a whole - what it describes is how for qigong masters - the vagus nerve is what stores up the qi and the sympathetic nervous system is what "discharges" the qi. So this is why I question your "assumption" about conductivity.  There is conductivity and then there is charge and then there is resistance and then there is magnetic flux. These are all Western science terms.

 

So we can use Western science as a helpful "mythology" to document how the qigong training could be explained - to reveal the basic principles involved. For example the Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality book states that the Tiger Channel is the "restraining nerve" and it connects the testes to the right ventricular of the heart. So if we look this up in Western science - what does that in the body? It is the vagus nerve. Oh and it connects then to the right hand.

 

Oh another hint is that when you get the "chills" from listening to music - this is proven to also be an activation of the vagus nerve that increases dopamine and so we also know, as I document, that listening to the "highest sound" that we hear externally, then resonates the brain as a whole as ultrasound. And so getting the chills - called frisson - is due to the nonlinear harmonics of the overtones and undertones. Western science still does not know exactly why it happens. But then as we've discussed - time-frequency uncertainty in Western science limits the understanding of the mysteries of harmonics. So Western science has proven that humans can hear FASTER that technological science can "measure" time-frequency uncertainty.

 

So what CIA mind control scientist Dr. Andrija Puharich discovered is that ultrasound then has a subharmonic "sideband" - and so the ultrasound resonates the vagus nerve via the neurotransmitters - like acetylcholine and dopamine and serotonin - and then these hydrogen-based molecules have their "side band" harmonics resonates as a nonlinear subharmonic. So we now from chaos science that the frequency as a subharmonic greatly increases in amplitude. What Puharich realized then is that the magnetic moment of the proton and electron spin or angular momentum is then resonated - and it is shifted to closer to the ELF subharmonic which is an alpha brain serotonin - a deeper vagus nerve activation. And so Dr. Stuart Hameroff also realized this same conclusion - and so he had ultrasound transmitted into his skull and sure enough he got this huge serotonin buzz.

 

So then Dr. Hameroff's analysis (with Sir Roger Penrose) is that the collagen of the microtubules then actually are quantum coherent - and so this "self-amplifies" - and it is phase coherent but is also superluminal as superconducting energy. This is also what Dr. Mae-Wan Ho realized as well. So what happens is that the neurotransmitters like serotonin work with the collagen, but so too does the lecithin. This is what Dr. Jack Tuszynski researches - I've blogged on this. But also then the water is "split" - and so the tubulin within the microtubules has a "sub-wavelength" density that enables the electromagnetic piezoelectric energy to have virtual photons - at the same frequency. And so the water is trapped inside the tubulin and then the microtubules split the water with "proticity" as a proton-proton energy that is superconducting.

 

So since this works through serotonin and the vagus nerve and ultrasound - and the ELF subharmonic (the alpha brain waves) - and on a deeper level with oxytocin and the theta brain waves and the heart energy - and so this is how the qi energy is stored up. So that would be an increase of the "magnetic flux" - it's also called a Memristor if I remember the term correctly. I blogged on this also. You can just read my blog for details - again if you want to learn on your own that is. haha. So the deal is that the spin then stores up the magnetic field - as a memory storage. And this is actually the quantum "soul" - as the 5th dimension. And this is how qigong masters or Yogis of India, etc. can see past lives by looking into someone's eyes.

 

So the small intestines is the 2nd brain - meaning more neurons than the heart. And so it is also a "gateway" to the 5th dimension this way. But the Lower  Tan T'ien does not "exist" unless the alchemy meditation is practiced. And so the ELF subharmonic is also a standing wave with the Schumann Resonance - as the Yuan Qi - and so it is a macroquantum coherence with the legs shaking 7 to 8 times per second. This is what the original human culture does as well - the San Bushmen. This is where all this "DAoist" training comes from. haha. It is psychophysiologically real - which is why science can "reverse engineer" it to some degree.

 

But the first thing to do is to find a real qigong master or Neidan spiritual healer, etc. and then feel and experience their energy and train based on their energy "healings" that they do to open up your channels and send energy into the body. So the priority is to first "test out" the truth by searching out for a teacher. THEN you can go back and research the  Western science to see if what you experienced - based on practicing the Daoist teachings - can be "reverse engineered" or explained. And so this is the approach I have done.

 

Oh and that brings us to the references in that quote and how it applies to "conductivity." But I think I've already gone beyond what any of those references could explain. Maybe not. So what I did was just google the quote.

 

 

 

Quote

2. If not ejaculating and not seeing beautiful women is what builds lecithin, and lecithin is what builds qi through the myelination of the nerves, then why don’t disabled people, monks, and similar people have lots of qi? I’m sure at least a third of those people are in situations where they cannot ejaculate either physically or don’t have the opportunity. Is it all because they don’t meditate?

 

 

Yeah again as the Idiot's Guide clearly explains - are you just not "interested" in reading it? - the process of alchemical meditation is Fire under Water to create Air as Steam - and so the Fire is the Shen (with the yin qi) - and the Water is the neurohormones (and the lecithin) - and the Steam is the ionization of the neurohormones. And so the book Taoist Yoga explains that yin qi is just immature yuan qi. So what this means is that if the bricks are not "cooked" properly then they will dissolve in the rain - as the metaphor is used in the Taoist Yoga book. And so when qigong Daoist master John Chang said he is just like an "electric eel" I decided to take him at his word. So I researched how does an electric eel produce it's charge.

 

The details are in my "Secret Science of Spiritual Healing" article - but maybe I reference it in the Idiot's Guide article as well. And so the lecithin "stores" the charge. So this makes sense as lecithin is what "insulates" the nerves. Now as Taoist Alchemy teaches - by the age of 16 a person is stuck in the thinking mode with the shen and the qi split - and so by thinking then they have lust and other lower emotions - and by lust then they lose the qi via the fluid (which is mainly lecithin). But the real issue, is then that the Yuan Qi emanates from the pineal gland and then "triggers" the loss of the Yuan Qi - as a signal that goes down the spine. So we can reverse engineer this - as I have done - it is the sympathetic nervous system.

 

So it is not whether a male ejaculates or not - it is whether he has LUST or not and with the eyes open this is triggered as a photonic signal subconsciously. So it happens at the speed of light (more or less). It happens in the microsecond range actually - via ultrasound or electromagnetic transduction. So microsecond is the wavelength as time while the frequency can be megahertz.  So as Taoist Yoga, the book, explains - this "evil fire" of the heart the "dilates" the gate of mortality - and so this is what causes the CHARGE to be lost.

 

So the charge is based on the nervous system and the emotional energy involved via the Shen interacting with the Qi and the Jing - it is all integrated. So then the pineal gland is a transducer that tells the mind what the direct knowledge is of the Shen - which is transmitted nonlocally via the eyes or via just the Ether by the Shen of No Shen - going into the Emptiness with a photonic signal.

 

So it is the Shen of No Shen that actually "builds the qi" - or as the book Taoist Yoga explains - the proper intention is a concentrated mind and ONLY the Quick Fire breathing has the POWER to then Re-Set the subconscious triggering of the lust as a photonic signal that then is amplified into a de-conversion of the vagus nerve qi stored up - into a sympathetic nervous signal.

Quote

Money (1960) has reported vivid sexual dreams and nocturnal emissions in paraplegics who no longer experience sexual arousal when awake.

So I don't know all the details about Western monks who don't practice Daoist alchemy or trance dancing shamanism with full lotus yoga, etc. But it does seem this subconscious reaction continues to occur.

And so as the book Taoist Yoga emphasizes if ONLY mind meditation is practiced then this does not have the POWER to cause the water to rise up above the fire - which is to say to "ratchet" or reset the vagus nerve charge through a parasympathetic rebound process. And the Taoist Yoga teacher actually emphasized also the standing active meditation as well and said that if it is practiced along with the sitting meditation - then the results will be twice as fast.

 

 

Quote

 

3. You say yuan qi provides suction, and this causes collagen to release low intensity ultrasound, but how can something so incredibly subtle and impalpable such as qi, cause such an amount of suction that it affects something gross and dense like collagen (which is said to be stronger than steel), to such a magnitude that it releases ultrasound? It doesn’t seem possible.

So collagen - the strength is due to - I would think the strength is for the SAME reason that Graphene is much stronger than steel. It is due to the hexagonal macro-quantum structure that enables conductivity with very little resistance because of an extra electron for each atom bond. So this extra electron shares the bond - a covalent bond and so Collagen is a "liquid crystal" that transduces high frequency photonic signals - as Dr. Mae-Wan Ho proved in her empirical data microscope research. So the electron is stuck in a "spin half" or noncommutative phase state - or "half quanta" state.

 

So this means that - for example a macroquantum structure, to give another example, is water - and so when water cools down, it actually expands and this goes against the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In other words water exhibits "reverse entropy" or negentropy (as Schroedinger) called it - and so science has studied and discovered a "4th" phase of water as a liquid crystal - called by Dr. Gerald Pollack - EZ Water. But also a Chinese scientist has studied this 4th phase water and considers it the secret to the qi energy, as did Dr. Mae-Wan Ho and also Dr. Andrija Puharich (studying paranormal energy like telekinesis).

 

So if you study "quantum biology" which is admittedly a new science - and still dismissed by some famous physicists like Carlo Rovelli - for example - the point being that if you study quantum biology then, as I reference from the science award winning book, "Life on the Edge" - 2016 - or is it the Edge of LIfe?  Yeah Life on the Edge - the secret core of that book is that quantum coherence is the "spark" of life that Self-Amplifies. This is a NEW model of reality, not the "standard" Copenhagen model that claims quantum coherence or quantum entanglement or even physical reality does not "exist" until some scientist measures it. haha. So the quantum biology reality states that, just as Schroedinger claimed in the 1930s and also Pascual Jordan - quantum coherence SELF-AMPLIFIES. I can give you the direct quote but I think it's in the Idiot's Guide (which I guess you don't want to read?). haha. Or the quote is on my blog.

 

And so you wonder - where does the power come from? This is the source of ALL POWER. For example the claim of mainstream science now is that the whole Universe originated from zero energy but as a noncommutative phase shift. So as Fred Alan Wolf, the quantum physicist of paranormal shamanic science, emphasizes - the phase then self-amplifies. The PHase is superluminal also. So the Emptiness is actually zero energy but at the same time the source of great power. Whereas "amplitude" as defined by Western science has to assume an external measurement - this is NOT how meditation (or evolution) works. Life grows from WITHIN and we can listen faster than time-frequency uncertainty (which is the phase shift limit at the source of the Universe). So as science has pointed out only if energy can be created FASTER than time-frequency uncertainty can then matter be created out of nothing. So this is precisely what meditation does.

 

So you say how can so much "suction" cause this. As I quoted Victor Schauberger: Pressure plus Suction equals Reduction of REsistance. And so it is the "reduction of resistance" that CAUSES it - not the suction. The suction is the mind being concentrated or the focus. But the light or Shen of No Shen is actually a "subharmonic" of the superluminal phase coherence or what Louis de Broglie called the Law of Phase Harmony. If you WANT to learn on your own - you can read my compilation of 77 different sources on the Law of Phase Harmony - linked at the top of my blog http://ecoechoinvasives.blogspot.com

 

So the claim then of science is that there is a frequency as a noncommutative phase that is an ether field due to quantum gravity or quantum relativity - and so at "time zero" there is an infinite coherence that is similar to say infinite frequency. But because of time-frequency uncertainty - it is ONLY the particle on its own that can "experience" this phase that is superluminal - or to put it in terms of science - then at time zero - it's momentum, directly proportional to its frequency, is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. And so science has to rely on LIGHT to make measurements - or in terms of meditation, "LIght" is our awareness as personal consciousness. So we increase the light - we actually STORE up light through meditation. But where does the light come from? As B.G. Sidharth explains, an Indian physicist who should have got the Nobel prize for predicting dark energy, causing the accelerating expansion of the universe: Light has mass due to the noncommutative spacetime at the microscale. So this is what de Broglie discovered as well - there is a hidden momentum to light that is NOT conversed. And so if we can resonate with this source of light, faster than time-freuqency uncertainty, then we can CULTIVATE or HARNESS the negative mass energy directly. This is called the Golden Key of Zhong Gong - the "yin matter" that is superluminal as the Emptiness information healing. This is what enables the Yang Shen to be created and the Yuan Jing to be restored, etc. This is antigravity energy that enables levitation and longevity and precognition.

Edited June 21, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Phoenix3]

I ask you questions because there’s many perspectives on ‘the truth’, but I’m interested in your perpective only. Thus, if I do my own research (as I often do), I begin to read different studies, see different points of view, and come to different conclusions. I also think very differently to you, as I have absolutely no interest in quantum physics (especially as it requires hundreds of hours of college/university-level studying just to understand just the basics of it, unlike most other things which are just learning of statements and facts) and I have to often try to decipher, interpret and assume what you mean when you speak in jargon (like the 6th paragraph, you may as well written that in chinese because to myself and the average reader, it is impossible to understand). So when I read what you say, I often have an idea in my mind on what you’re trying to say, but I wish to confirm from you what I think you’re saying is indeed what you’re saying. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. If you didn’t talk in quantum science speak all the time, talking about spacetime, noncommunitive stuff, virtual phonons and everything else, then I wouldn’t have to request clarification all the time. And then most of the clarifications still talk about quantum physics so we end up going in a circle, repeating ourselves.

 

Most of your answers are just copy-and-pasted from your book, so if I can’t understand that, then there’s no point in reading the book in general.

 

If you read my questions on the Daoist harmonics thread, this thread and elsewhere, my questions are less spontaneous questions arising from nowhere, but more requests for you to clarify yourself due to misunderstandings developed from such differences in language.

 

You are correct that I can just go to your references, but many of your references are books that one is required to purchase, hence my first question in my previous post on this thread, requesting clarification due to not understanding the context.

 

It would be ok if you were speaking in neidan terminology, or even bad, incoherent pinyin chinese (like the member awaken likes to do, who seems to write in her own style of pinyin), because this is a forum about Daoism, but I don’t see why I should be expected to understand advanced quantum physics words. I can accept you writing in this style because I’m a tolerant and open minded person, but in return, I don’t see why I can’t ask you questions for clarification. It’s not a case of just googling definitions (some words you use I have tried to find the definitions to, but it’s not found by a google search), it’s more a level of understanding advanced physics, which I simply cannot nor do I want to do, even if I could. Thanks for your understanding.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Phoenix3

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

I ask you questions because there’s many perspectives on ‘the truth’, but I’m interested in your perpective only. Thus, if I do my own research (as I often do), I begin to read different studies, see different points of view, and come to different conclusions. I also think very differently to you, as I have absolutely no interest in quantum physics (especially as it requires hundreds of hours of college/university-level studying just to understand just the basics of it, unlike most other things which are just learning of statements and facts) and I have to often try to decipher, interpret and assume what you mean when you speak in jargon (like the 6th paragraph, you may as well written that in chinese because to myself and the average reader, it is impossible to understand). So when I read what you say, I often have an idea in my mind on what you’re trying to say, but I wish to confirm from you what I think you’re saying is indeed what you’re saying. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. If you didn’t talk in quantum science speak all the time, talking about spacetime, noncommunitive stuff, virtual phonons and everything else, then I wouldn’t have to request clarification all the time. And then most of the clarifications still talk about quantum physics so we end up going in a circle, repeating ourselves.

 

Most of your answers are just copy-and-pasted from your book, so if I can’t understand that, then there’s no point in reading the book in general.

 

If you read my questions on the Daoist harmonics thread, this thread and elsewhere, my questions are less spontaneous questions arising from nowhere, but more requests for you to clarify yourself due to misunderstandings developed from such differences in language.

 

You are correct that I can just go to your references, but many of your references are books that one is required to purchase, hence my first question in my previous post on this thread, requesting clarification due to not understanding the context.

 

It would be ok if you were speaking in neidan terminology, or even bad, incoherent pinyin chinese (like the member awaken likes to do, who seems to write in her own style of pinyin), because this is a forum about Daoism, but I don’t see why I should be expected to understand advanced quantum physics words. I can accept you writing in this style because I’m a tolerant and open minded person, but in return, I don’t see why I can’t ask you questions for clarification. It’s not a case of just googling definitions (some words you use I have tried to find the definitions to, but it’s not found by a google search), it’s more a level of understanding advanced physics, which I simply cannot nor do I want to do, even if I could. Thanks for your understanding.

 

Oh now I understand you have a bias against quantum mechanics.

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especially as it requires hundreds of hours of college/university-level studying just to understand just the basics of it

This is not true at all. I took quantum mechanics my FIRST year of college. It was taught as an introductory course by Professor Herbert J. Bernstein who is having his quantum teleportation technology tested by NASA - satellite to Earth quantum teleportation. Professor Bernstein emphasized that EVERYONE should take quantum mechanics FIRST since quantum mechanics is the foundation of science. Professor Bernstein stated that since people take classical physics in high school - then they are brainwashed by the wrong foundation of science. Another person who took their first quantum mechanics course as the SAME one that I took - from the same professor - is Lee Smolin - who has written several books on quantum cosmology.
 

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And then most of the clarifications still talk about quantum physics so we end up going in a circle, repeating ourselves.

 

 

So if you refuse to consider quantum mechanics - then your attempt to understand "Neidan" (choose your fancy Chinese term) - is doomed to failure. Sorry. If you WANT to learn quantum mechanics - I have a playlist on my youtube channel of lectures and videos - and also I have complied 77 different sources of de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony.

http://ecoechoinvasives.blogspot.com/2018/01/summarizing-de-broglie-pilot-wave-law.html

 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

7 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

 

You are correct that I can just go to your references, but 

I would say, next to the technospeak, that the problem is that a significant amount of those references doesn't seem to say what Void claims they say, or if they do, they insert word like maybe. 

 

I have checked up several, and in some cases even bothered to post a comment about it. 

 

Maybe, in another 10-20 years, the field of biological quantum whatever will be mature enough to be useful to understand some of the experiences in meditation. 

 

On the other hand, the masters of old managed quite well without that theory, so it is very likely that a modern practitioner can manage without it as well. 

[voidisyinyang]

32 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

I would say, next to the technospeak, that the problem is that a significant amount of those references doesn't seem to say what Void claims they say, or if they do, they insert word like maybe. 

 

I have checked up several, and in some cases even bothered to post a comment about it. 

 

Maybe, in another 10-20 years, the field of biological quantum whatever will be mature enough to be useful to understand some of the experiences in meditation. 

 

On the other hand, the masters of old managed quite well without that theory, so it is very likely that a modern practitioner can manage without it as well. 

 

Perhaps you would like to provide some evidence to back up your claim that....

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a significant amount of those references doesn't seem to say what Void claims they say, or if they do, they insert word like maybe.

This is a quite vague over-generalization but does sound very convenient on your part. haha.

If you make an accusation you need to provide evidence.

Otherwise it's called a False Accusation.

[Phoenix3]

50 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

I would say, next to the technospeak, that the problem is that a significant amount of those references doesn't seem to say what Void claims they say, or if they do, they insert word like maybe. 

 

I have checked up several, and in some cases even bothered to post a comment about it. 

 

Maybe, in another 10-20 years, the field of biological quantum whatever will be mature enough to be useful to understand some of the experiences in meditation. 

 

On the other hand, the masters of old managed quite well without that theory, so it is very likely that a modern practitioner can manage without it as well. 

 

I agree exactly  I would have gone further and mentioned it, but I didn’t want anyone to start taking offense. No-one’s a perfect scholar here, I just want to be spoken to like a normal person, not like a postgraduate advanced physics expert or whatever.

 

It’s also worth mentioning that I tried finding clarification on the references elsewhere, like here (https://www.reddit.com/r/learnmath/comments/8pjj0v/can_someone_please_explain_like_im_5_what_this/e0cqdqo/), because Void just can’t seem to explain his theories without using advanced physics jargon, and one reply said that the quotes referred to basically don’t exist.

 

Another said he was doing his masters in mathematics, and even he didn’t understand the quotes. So if he doesn’t understand, and I don’t understand, then what’s the point?

 

Again, I have to emphasise that it’s well in void’s right to speak however he wants, and if he wants to talk to us in an incredibly confusing and complicted language, that’s ok. But in return, I don’t see why I can’t ask questions to clarify what he is talking about.

 

I agree completely that quantum physics language is totally unnecessary to explain ancient concepts of pythagorean music theory or anatomy or philosophy. But that’s just my opinion.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Phoenix3

[voidisyinyang]

30 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

I agree exactly  I would have gone further and mentioned it, but I didn’t want anyone to start taking offense. No-one’s a perfect scholar here, I just want to be spoken to like a normal person, not like a postgraduate advanced physics expert or whatever.

 

It’s also worth mentioning that I tried finding clarification on the references elsewhere, like here (https://www.reddit.com/r/learnmath/comments/8pjj0v/can_someone_please_explain_like_im_5_what_this/e0cqdqo/), because Void just can’t seem to explain his theories without using advanced physics jargon, and one reply said that the quotes referred to basically don’t exist.

 

Again, I have to emphasise that it’s well in void’s right to speak however he wants, and if he wants to talk to us in an incredibly confusing and complicted language, that’s ok. But in return, I don’t see why I can’t ask questions to clarify what he is talking about.

 

I agree completely that quantum physics language is totally unnecessary to explain ancient concepts of pythagorean music theory or anatomy or philosophy. But that’s just my opinion.

 

 

 

Not mentioning something - to be "polite"? Again the issue is evidence. So now you provide a link. I will look at it.

Why do you think you can't ask questions? Would you like me to count how many of your questions I have answered already? haha. But the whole time you have "politely" assumed that quantum mechanics is not necessary to understand - which is somewhat ironic considering computers would not exist without quantum mechanics. Since the early 20th century, the foundation of science has been quantum mechanics.

 

So if you think quantum mechanics is not necessary to understand Pythagorean music, anatomy or philosophy - that is all fine - but this is a DAoist website. Have you searched out a Daoist spiritual master yet so you can "understand" the subject at hand? haha.

 

Why not just cut to the chase instead of playing silly games. http://springforestqigong.com is a real spiritual master - you can call and get a "phone healing" - and then your experience will provide much greater understanding. You might even realize that only quantum mechanics can explain the phenomenon you experience (that is if you want to "reverse engineer" the experience back into Western science).

 

But thanks for sharing that you don't think quantum mechanics is worth learning - that explains why you incessantly were stilted in your dialog with me. haha.

 

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind - if you don't want to study quantum mechanics - no problem.

 

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Having seen about half of the lecture at the time I'm writing this, it seems to me that Connes is not talking about music theory at all,

 

That's your "evidence" - someone who watched HALF of the video and jumped to the wrong conclusion? haha.

 

If you read my research online - you can find that I first cite Connes over ten years ago - and it's an entirely different source, based on music.

 

Let's see if I can find it.

 

Secret of the Snake: Kepler and the Nine - Ancient Mysteries ...

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com › ... › Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History

Aug 16, 2006 - By drew hempel, August 16, 2006 in Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History .... The book Triangle of Thoughts (2000) by top French quantum chaos mathematicians Alain Connes, Andrew Lichnerowicz and Marcel Paul ...

 

Yep - here we go. So that was the FIRST book I read by Connes - on music theory....

 

 

The book Triangle of Thoughts (2000) by top French quantum chaos mathematicians Alain Connes, Andrew Lichnerowicz and Marcel Paul Schutzenberger (M.P.S.) ends with a promotion of music theory as the secret key to solving humanity’s problems. The argument by Alain Connes is that music transmitted aurally is currently in the same

stage as when people read out loud—as they did until the 12th Century A.D. Connes states that if people could, as conductor Solti did, read music

scores and hear multiple texts in their head "

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that is inscribed in a

time that would no longer be sequential, because a score is a multitude of

chords, a tangle projected onto physical time of course, but that

manifestly evolves in an higher dimensional space, giving rise to a

variability much more pertinent to the description of individual

time."

 

Alain Connes continues “

Quote

 

And it could be formalized by music.

...I think we might succeed in this way to educate the human mind to deal

with polyphonic situations in which several voices coexist, in which

several states coexist, whereas our ordinary logical allows room for only

one. Finally, we come back to the problem of adaptation, which has to be

resolved in order for us to understand quantum correlation and

interrelation which we discussed earlier, and which are fundamentally

schizoid in nature. It is clear that logic will evolve in parallel with

the development of quantum computers, just as it evolved with computer

science. That will no doubt enable us to cross new borders and to better

integrate the mathematical formalism of the quantum world into our

metaphysical system.”

 

 

So just as I did with the youtube lecture online - I transcribed it.

 

Now let's look at a third source of Connes on music theory....

 

Just type the quote into google and presto:

 

arXiv:math/0404128v1 [math.NT] 6 Apr 2004

https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0404128

by A Connes - ‎2004 - ‎Cited by 14 - ‎Related articles

Quote

discrete scaling manifests itself in acoustic systems, as is well known in western classical music, where the two scalings correspond, respectively, to passing to the octave (frequency ratio of 2) and transposition (the perfect fifth is the frequency ratio 3/2), with the approximate value log(3)/ log(2) ∼ 19/12 responsible for.

 

This isn't just metaphorical - it is precise math.

 

There is another quantum physicist who makes a similar point about music - actually I quote half a dozen quantum physicists on music and noncommutative phase. Professor Basil J. Hiley (with whom I've corresponded) - his collaborator David Bohm. Nobel PHysicist Brian Josephson (with whom I've corresponded), This quantum physicist in Mexico - ....Fred Alan Wolf - so that's half a dozen right there....including Alain Connes.

 

Let's go back to the "explanation" page that you link to....this quote below is imposing a Western bias onto an empirical truth. There is no need to "line up the octave and the Perfect Fifth" - unless you decide to define infinity as a geometric materialism and so therefore need to change the empirical truth of the noncommutative phase tuning. The Daoists DID NOT CHANGE THE EMPIRICAL TRUTH. THe Western Science revolution from Plato DID change the empirical truth by "tempering" the noncommutative phase or complementary opposites. Alain Connes acknowledges the truth.

 

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You end up with a distribution of simple, consonant harmonies and complex dissonances that will together sound out of tune. Various techniques were developed to temper the ratios until the modern equal temperament system was discovered and developed. What equal temperament does is divide the octave into 12 equal steps so that consecutive ratios are ¹²√2/1, and the scales have symmetry built right in. Other than octaves, everything is slightly out of tune compared to intervals of simple ratios, but everything is equally out of tune with everything else just enough not to matter much at all. There is nothing special about √2 in equal temperament other than that it produces an equal temperament tritone.

It’s not the irrationality of log(3)/log(2) that is the problem, but just that multiplying by powers of 3 and dividing by powers of 2, or vice versa, is not necessarily the best way to tune a harp with a lot of strings. Whereas scaling by 3/2 gets you to weird places, scaling by ¹²√2 will get you back to where you started.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Phoenix3]

I don’t want to upset you by being accusational, and you already have provided a lot of help to me for understanding Daoism and music theory, so for that i’m very grateful, as I have said before.

it’s just that you said I seemed to not try to understand what you were saying, or that you said I was practicing ‘willful ignorance’. But I spent a lot of time and effort trying to understand what you were trying to say.

 

However I’m too tired on trying to understand, and besides in the past few weeks I’ve had a lot of spare time but these days I’ll be working and I have no more time or energy to try and understand such advanced theories anymore. It’s too much for me. Maybe someone else will continue the conversation if they’re interested. 

 

Thanks for everything, that’s all from me.

[voidisyinyang]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said:

I don’t want to upset you by being accusational, and you already have provided a lot of help to me for understanding Daoism and music theory, so for that i’m very grateful, as I have said before.

it’s just that you said I seemed to not try to understand what you were saying, or that you said I was practicing ‘willful ignorance’. But I spent a lot of time and effort trying to understand what you were trying to say.

 

However I’m too tired on trying to understand, and besides in the past few weeks I’ve had a lot of spare time but these days I’ll be working and I have no more time or energy to try and understand such advanced theories anymore. It’s too much for me. Maybe someone else will continue the conversation if they’re interested. 

 

Thanks for everything, that’s all from me.

 

Look at my edits above dude - you think you can just run away after all of this? haha.

You refuse to engage with the evidence? Is that your problem? Willful ignorance. I have been answering your questions and I will continue to do so - because I have engaged with the evidence honestly.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

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I don't think any of these quotes are verbatim or even real for that matter.

 

This is total B.S. - I listened to the lecture at HALF SPEED and transcribed the lecture quotes verbatim - and I used to work for the deaf community transcribing phone calls and I was also a legal secretary transcribing a law professor.

 

So this person gives no evidence that that quotes are not verbatim - they are indeed.

 

That FALSE accusation - with no evidence is by someone who admits they only listened to HALF the lecture! Hilarious. And this is supposed to be "engagement" with the "evidence?"

 

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Having seen about half of the lecture at the time I'm writing this,

 

So who is wasting my time now? haha. C'mon people ENGAGE WITH THE EVIDENCE.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

OK let's test my transcription skills. Let's look up the book Triangle of Thoughts - from 2000 - and see if I just "made up" the above quotes.....

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

https://books.google.com/books/about/Triangle_of_Thoughts.html?id=PgSMBgAAQBAJ

 

No review by google....