The Dao of Emotion

[Geof Nanto]

Early in the course of Earl Grey’s discussion topic on the Tao of Controversy I spent about an hour drafting a comment but then deleted it without posting it because I couldn’t adequately express my multifaceted feelings on the subject.   I was pleased I did because when I read the discussion the following day it had progressed in a way that covered a great deal of what I wanted to say – and better expressed than I could have managed. Hence my delight in being able to add a heart-felt ‘Like’ to most all of the posts.

 

However, the discussion was mainly about the negatives. A core reason I abandoned my original attempt at replying was that I could see much positivity in working through controversy, and the more I thought about it the deeper and more complex it got. Here’s an extract from a lecture on alchemy given by Marie-Louise von Franz, Carl Jung’s primary assistant in his work of interpreting alchemical texts from a psychological perspective, that covers a further aspect of that complexity…..

 

 

Dr. von Franz: What is fire? [In alchemy]

 

Answer [from an audience member]: Emotion.

 

Dr. von Franz: Yes, but what is positive about emotion? It transforms, cooks, and enlightens, that is the way in which fire brings light: if I am emotionally gripped by something I can understand it; if I am not emotionally wrestling with my problems, or something else, then nothing comes out.

 

Where there is no emotion there is no life. If you have to learn something by rote and it is of no interest to you, there is no fire; it does not register, even if you read it fifty times. But as soon as there is emotional interest, it need only be read once and you know it. Therefore emotion is the carrier of consciousness, there is no progress in consciousness without emotion.

 

The destructive aspect appears in quarrels; there it eats us up. The other person says it is terrible when you let out your destructive emotion, but if we don't let it out, then emotion eats us up. You know how enjoyable it is if you keep an affect to yourself; if you don't let your negative emotion out it just eats you up from within, there is a growling dog within you for hours.

 

Here there is an allusion to evil emotion: "The fire was kindled in the assembly and the flame consumed the impious on earth." It is the burning up of impious people, of sinners. And then it is said: "He extinguishes the fire in its own inner measure."

 

Psychologically that is very revealing. Again and again people say in analysis that they are in love with you, or hate you, although they say they know it is quite unreasonable: "I am not crazy, I can behave and be reasonable, but the thing is still there, what can I do about it? Please redeem me! It is not enough for me to know it is all nonsense."

 

The answer to that is hard to accept: the fire has to burn the fire, one just has to burn in the emotion till the fire dies down and becomes balanced. That is something which unfortunately cannot be evaded. The burning of the fire, of the emotion, cannot be tricked out of one's system; there is no recipe for getting rid of it, it has to be endured. The fire has to burn until the last unclean element has been consumed, which is what all alchemical texts say in different variations, and we have not found any other way either. It cannot be hindered but only suffered till what is mortal or corruptible, or, as our text says so beautifully, till the corruptible humidity, the unconsciousness, has been burnt up. That is the meaning, it is the acceptance of suffering.

 

If one is filled with 10,000 devils one can only be burnt up in them until they quiet down and are still, and the infantile demand on the analyst or anybody else, that he should redeem one with some kind of comforting trick, does not help. If an analyst pretends he can do that, then he is just a quack, because there is no such thing, and anyway it would be meaningless. If he tries to get analysands out of the suffering it means he takes away from them what is most valuable; cheap comforting is wrong, for by that you get people away from the heat, the place where the process of individuation takes place.

 

Sitting in Hell and roasting there is what brings forth the philosopher's stone; as it is said here, the fire is extinguished with its own inner measure. Passion has its own inner measure; there is no such thing as chaotic libido, for we know that the unconscious itself, as pure nature, has an inner balance. The lack of balance comes from the childishness of the conscious attitude. If you only follow your own passion according to its own indications it will never go too far, it will always lead to its own defeat.

 

Inordinate passion seeks defeat. People who have an inordinately passionate nature, a kind of devilish nature, are lovingly searching for a human person, or a situation, against which they can knock their heads, and they despise any partner or situation in which their passion wins out. Instinctively they seek defeat. It is as though something within them knows this devil has to be hit on the head, which is why if one is friendly or weak, or understanding towards such fire, one does not help the person; generally such people walk out on you, because that is not what they want. The fire of the passion looks for that which will extinguish it, and that is why the urge for individuation, as long as it is a natural inordinate urge, seeks impossible situations; it seeks conflict and defeat and suffering because it seeks its own transformation.

 

Let us say someone is possessed by a power devil. If he can dominate people in his surroundings he is not happy, but remains restless; he dominates the whole family and goes on dominating outside and in his professional life, but he is still restless. He is really searching for someone who can overcome him; that is what he longs for, though naturally he does not like it. It is an ambiguous attitude, for he hates it but at the same time longs for somebody or something to overcome him and put an end to his power. It is very important to know that in the treatment of borderline cases, for they usually suffer from tremendous emotions and always try to let the whole impact fall on the analyst in the hope and fear that he will hit back; that is because the fire knows its own inner measure.

 

[Bindi]

I was just reading this, I think it is describing the same thing in Chinese alchemical terms:

 

On one hand, fire stands for the yang energy of illumination; the illumination of the mind of Tao, which is conscious awareness.

On the other hand, fire stands for extinction; the extinction of everything that opposes conscious awareness. This opposition refers to the (false) yin energy of the human mind or lower self; the pollution of acquired conditioning, compulsive habits, the six senses troubling one, and the seven  emotions running wild.

The method of action in spiritual alchemy is to burn away all the pollution of acquired conditioning. -- Liu Yiming (Taoist I Ching, Hexagram #7 ,The Army)

When mundane yin is stripped away, and the celestial yang is pure, the firing is sufficient. -- Li Daochun, 13th c. Taoist master (The book of Balance and Harmony)

The firing process, which burns away false yin and reaches a state of pure yang, requires a balance of yin and yang. Here, balanced yin and yang refers to firmness and flexibility being balanced, while pure yang refers to conscious awareness of the Original Spirit and false yin, to the mechanical awareness of the human mind.

Stabilize the will with firmness; do the work with flexibility.
Making the will firm and strong is setting up the crucible;
Gradually progressing in the work is setting up the furnace.
Firmness and flexibility are both used, without imbalance;
Having prepared, work the fire and the convergence according to the time. -- Liu Yiming, The Inner Teachings of Taoism

[Geof Nanto]

Thanks, Bindi. I was hoping someone would see the parallels with Daoist alchemy. That’s why I started the topic in the Daoist section. For me, a key aspect is how much of this work can be done internally as per Neidan and how much needs to be expressed and burnt out externally the way von Franz describes.  I know from my own experience that basic Daoist praxis such as working to harmonise the energy system of the body through qigong, food energetics etc goes a long way to aiding emotional balance. Yet I’m a great believer that much of this has to be played out in the real world over an extended period of time.  All things being equal, life is long; and so is the course of this work. 

 

(Incidentally, those Thomas Cleary translations you’ve referenced are all books I have and have gained much insight from. They gave me my introduction to Daoist theory and praxis going back almost 30 years ago now. His Taoist I Ching is still my favourite Yi Jing book.) 
 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Yueya

[Bindi]

Personally I have never practised any Daoist system or form, I have only ever 'sat in hell and roasted' while as much as possible trying to understand the process. I've come at it more from a psychoanalytical perspective, and untangling emotions has always been the driver for me. Yet this has led me to an understanding and appreciation of Daoist alchemy above all other systems as it so perfectly articulates much of what I have experienced and come to understand. 

 

Jung examined his own subconscious and also came to alchemy, it seems like a natural outcome for this sort of active self-exploration. 

[Geof Nanto]

54 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Yet this has led me to an understanding and appreciation of Daoist alchemy above all other systems as it so perfectly articulates much of what I have experienced and come to understand. 

 

 

For me too. A life safer. Also Western alchemy. One complements the other.  (I suspect you'd also like Western alchemy with its use of Christian imagery. It has great parallels with Daoist Neidan.)

 

58 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Jung examined his own subconscious and also came to alchemy, it seems like a natural outcome for this sort of active self-exploration. 

 

Yes. But Jung says the unconscious content thrust itself into his consciousness by itself.  It almost sent him crazy with its bizarre content. He writes in Memories, Dreams, Reflections: “An incessant stream of fantasies had been released, and I did my best not to lose my head but to find some way to understand these strange things. I stood helpless before an alien world; everything in it seemed difficult and incomprehensible. I was living in a constant state of tension; often I felt as if gigantic blocks of stone were tumbling down upon me. One thunderstorm followed another.” His journal of this time is amazing, published long after his death as The Red Book. It was only after he received a dream message that he looked for parallels in alchemy, and then he had to spend a decade collecting, translating and deciphering these long forgotten works that had been discarded into the rubbish bin of history, before he was able to get a measure of their great value.

 

[Marblehead]

I have stated elsewhere that I love my emotions.

 

But then, sure, there are sometimes some that appear out of nowhere and they ain't very nice.

 

These negative emotions are likely subconscious problems we haven't yet resolved.

 

 

[Daemon]

Is the intellectual (therefore dualistic) classification of nondualistic (complex) emotions (and other even more profound complex underpinning feelings) as being either positive or negative (as opposed to being more profoundly informational than dualistic thoughts) at the root of all existential angst?

 

☮️

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Daemon said:

Is the intellectual (therefore dualistic) classification of nondualistic (complex) emotions (and other even more profound complex underpinning feelings) as being either positive or negative (as opposed to being more profoundly informational than dualistic thoughts) at the root of all existential angst?

 

☮️

 

 

 

Just reading that made me worry about being at all.

[Daemon]

Maybe you could find some religious cult that would help you to convince yourself to believe you that don't exist?

Perhaps that would be the easiest way for you to escape your own specific angst?

 

☮️

 

[Bindi]

12 hours ago, Yueya said:

 

For me too. A life safer. Also Western alchemy. One complements the other.  (I suspect you'd also like Western alchemy with its use of Christian imagery. It has great parallels with Daoist Neidan.)

 

 

Yes. But Jung says the unconscious content thrust itself into his consciousness by itself.  It almost sent him crazy with its bizarre content. He writes in Memories, Dreams, Reflections: “An incessant stream of fantasies had been released, and I did my best not to lose my head but to find some way to understand these strange things. I stood helpless before an alien world; everything in it seemed difficult and incomprehensible. I was living in a constant state of tension; often I felt as if gigantic blocks of stone were tumbling down upon me. One thunderstorm followed another.” His journal of this time is amazing, published long after his death as The Red Book. It was only after he received a dream message that he looked for parallels in alchemy, and then he had to spend a decade collecting, translating and deciphering these long forgotten works that had been discarded into the rubbish bin of history, before he was able to get a measure of their great value.

 

 

To your knowledge does Western alchemy start with work on the gut, and progress to the heart and then the head? Also did Jung refer to either the gut or the heart? 

[Geof Nanto]

7 hours ago, Daemon said:

Is the intellectual (therefore dualistic) classification of nondualistic (complex) emotions (and other even more profound complex underpinning feelings) as being either positive or negative (as opposed to being more profoundly informational than dualistic thoughts) at the root of all existential angst?

 

☮️

 

 

Consciousness can’t exist without polarity.  And sure, whether I call that polarity positive / negative or yin / yang, both poles are part of a greater whole.  And yes, if there was no individual consciousness there'd be no existential angst.  There are many discussions here on non-dualism and also, often by the same people who profess to be non-dualists, much duelism. 

[Geof Nanto]

3 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

To your knowledge does Western alchemy start with work on the gut, and progress to the heart and then the head? Also did Jung refer to either the gut or the heart? 

 

In a very real way, I feel it dishonours this work to try to discuss it on an open forum. It’s simply impossible to convey anything but some basics.  And it’s only meaningful for people like yourself who have come to it through their own experiences. For me, alchemy in all its varied forms best describes the natural transformation processes that happens self-so over time if we allow it. In my case it’s a gradual, slow but profoundly transforming growth. I've had many ups and downs with much emotional trauma, all of which has given me insights into the work. Significantly, it all feels like a part of a meaningful whole, whereas in retrospect I can see my early life as meaningless (though I wasn't aware of this at the time). 

 

My simple answer to your question is that Neidan and its preliminary practices are focused on working with energy flows within the body whereas Western alchemists focused on external chemical processes and into these they projected psychic content. It’s rich in emotion; rich in symbolic content. Jung found in it the precursor of what he called individuation. That’s why I said these two are complementary. I’ve needed both – and many other teachings, relationships etc – yet my path is intensely my own. 
 

[Daemon]

17 hours ago, Yueya said:

 

Consciousness can’t exist without polarity.  And sure, whether I call that polarity positive / negative or yin / yang, both poles are part of a greater whole.  And yes, if there was no individual consciousness there'd be no existential angst.  There are many discussions here on non-dualism and also, often by the same people who profess to be non-dualists, much duelism. 

 

 

I'm not one of those advaitins or neoadvaitins nor am I interested in debating any religious philosophy (as opposed to practical philosophy), let alone this non-sense about the duality or the non-duality of "Consciousness" over which these Buddhists and Hindus seem waste their lives dueling, as you put it so elegantly.

However, although "Consciousness" is clearly somewhat complex, I'm forced to agree with you that anyone who's rendered unconscious probably wouldn't be suffering anything at all, let alone existential angst.

Apologies for the confusion that I seem to have introduced to this topic.

I will now leave you in Peace.

 

☮️

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Daemon

[Geof Nanto]

17 hours ago, Daemon said:

nor am I interested in debating any religious philosophy (as opposed to practical philosophy)

 

I agree but would take it further.  I’m not really interested in debating any philosophy. However, practical theory is very important for me. 

 

17 hours ago, Daemon said:

However, although "Consciousness" is clearly somewhat complex, I'm forced to agree with you that anyone who's rendered unconscious probably wouldn't be suffering anything at all, let alone existential angst.

 

That's not what I meant. Can you see greater depth in my statement: "If there was no individual consciousness there'd be no existential angst."  

 

Edit: At the risk of stating the obvious, you come across as rather war-like. Surely you're aware of this? I assume the polarity between your peace signature and your confrontational manner with almost all members of this forum is so blatant it could not possibly be anything but deliberate.  Hence I make this reply with ambivalent feelings. I'm hoping something constructive comes from it, yet wary of provoking a hostile response. If that’s the case, it’s unlikely I’ll reply to you as I don’t come here for confrontation. But if you’d drop your aggression (which so far you haven't directed at me) I feel you have much to offer this forum. 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Yueya

[Daemon]

This symbol to which you refer is not the "peace" symbol it is the sigil Algiz (reversed), which carries a more profound and nuanced meaning.

As I previously attempted to convey, please accept my apologies for my original misunderstanding, which led to my mistake in contributing to this topic.

 

Peace and Goodbye,

 

☮️

 

[Apech]

10 hours ago, Yueya said:

 

I agree but would take it further.  I’m not really interested in debating any philosophy. However, practical theory is very important for me. 

 

 

That's not what I meant. Can you see greater depth in my statement: "If there was no individual consciousness there'd be no existential angst."  

 

Edit: At the risk of stating the obvious, you come across as rather war-like. Surely you're aware of this? I assume the polarity between your peace signature and your confrontational manner with almost all members of this forum is so blatant it could not possibly be anything but deliberate.  Hence I make this reply with ambivalent feelings. I'm hoping something constructive comes from it, yet wary of provoking a hostile response. If that’s the case, it’s unlikely I’ll reply to you as I don’t come here for confrontation. But if you’d drop your aggression (which so far you haven't directed at me) I feel you have much to offer this forum. 

 

 

 

Please continue with your discussion of emotion in alchemy (if you so choose).  I would contribute but I fear then the discussion would be far too Buddhist

[Geof Nanto]

Thank you for your supportive comment, Apech. Please feel free to add some Buddhist flavour, if you so chose.  In a general sense, I’d say any path that results in profound inner transformation could be described as an alchemical one. For instance, some people describe the Ten Ox Herding Pictures as a story of alchemical transformation.  (However, I’ve spent much time living in Buddhist meditation centres when I was younger and I can tell you these places are rife with unacknowledged, and therefore destructive, emotion.) 

 

Other than that, all I’d like to add at this stage is that attacking people is easy. It’s allowing oneself a measure of emotional vulnerability that’s hard. But’s that’s an essential part of the alchemical method; the transmutation of raw, chaotic emotion into spiritual gold. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Yueya

[Bindi]

I'm not well read in neidan literature, but I see there is an acknowledgement of the role that emotions play in this reference from "Awakening to Reality" in the first few lines of Poem 3 -

 

If you study immortality, you should study celestial immortality: only the Golden Elixir is the highest principle.

 

When the two things meet, emotions and nature join one another; where the five agents are whole, Dragon and Tiger coil.

 

And Fabrizio Pregadio’s commentary on the second line - 

 

When the two things meet, emotions and nature join one another. The "two things" are, fundamentally, True Yin and True Yang. Inner nature (xing) is essentially pure and unaffected by phenomena or events of any kind. Emotions (qing, a word also translated as feelings, sentiments, or passions) are often impure and tend to disjoin from one's nature, to the point that they may become uncontrolled. According to many Neidan texts, the separation of inner nature and emotions is a feature of the conditioned state in which we live. Only when True Yin and True Yang merge can one's inner nature and emotions be not independent of one another, but in agreement with one another.

 

The Chinese view of "emotions" is more complex than it might at first seem. Emotions are not seen as merely psychological phenomena, but rather as pertaining to the sphere of existence, of one's being in the world as an individual entity. For this very reason, emotions are often at odds with one's inner nature, which is inherently transcendent. When emotions and inner nature join one another, emotions turn into qualities - personality, temperament, attitudes - that allow a person to express his or her inner nature in life, according to his or her individuality.

 

edit: I am astounded that Pregadio has encountered this reference to emotional and inner nature separation in "many Neidan texts," very interesting. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Bindi

[Apech]

9 hours ago, Yueya said:

Thank you for your supportive comment, Apech. Please feel free to add some Buddhist flavour, if you so chose.  In a general sense, I’d say any path that results in profound inner transformation could be described as an alchemical one. For instance, some people describe the Ten Ox Herding Pictures as a story of alchemical transformation.  (However, I’ve spent much time living in Buddhist meditation centres when I was younger and I can tell you these places are rife with unacknowledged, and therefore destructive, emotion.) 

 

Other than that, all I’d like to add at this stage is that attacking people is easy. It’s allowing oneself a measure of emotional vulnerability that’s hard. But’s that’s an essential part of the alchemical method; the transmutation of raw, chaotic emotion into spiritual gold. 

 

Yueya,

 

Even though a practicing Buddhist I am allergic to Dharma centres for that very reason - conflicting emotion overlayed with false emotion - but I won't go on about it.

 

I think that there is actually an alchemical view of things - which some people get and some do not.  Once you see it you can begin to work with it.  Then as one tantric master said 'emotion is the path'.

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

On 18.6.2018 at 8:37 PM, Bindi said:

 

To your knowledge does Western alchemy start with work on the gut, and progress to the heart and then the head? Also did Jung refer to either the gut or the heart? 

 

It is a little hard to set a standard for what Western Alchemy teaches in this regard. It does not typically employ the kind of physio-spiritual characteristic of Neidan, although parallels can be found in the works of people who can be said to be spiritual Alchemists, such as Jakob Boehme, Johann Georg Gichtel and, more recently, Julius Evola.

 

And here it seems fair to say that, overall, Western Alchemy takes more of a circular approach, in accordance with its most foundational text, the Emerald Tablet:

 

It ascends from the earth to the heaven & again it descends to the earth & receives the force of things superior & inferior.
By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world
& thereby all obscurity shall fly from you.

 

An example of this can be found in the work of aforementioned Gichtel, as illustrated here:

 

 

According to Gichtel's scheme, the work of transformation starts from and revolves around the heart centre, the great unifier of what is above and what is below.

 

And as Western Alchemy emphasizes cyclic opening and closing, it seems appropriate to say that this process ends where it began.

[Daemon]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

According to Gichtel's scheme, the work of transformation starts from and revolves around the heart centre, the great unifier of what is above and what is below.

 

And as Western Alchemy emphasizes cyclic opening and closing, it seems appropriate to say that this process ends where it began.

 

 

Outstanding précis Michael! (@Michael Sternbach)

 

☮️