A friend talking to me about "ending it"

[Rara]

So I have a friend that I met years ago on a job and I have always kept him at arm's length due to his rage.

 

He has some good qualities though, and we have a few interests in common, but having a friendship with the guy comes at a cost.

 

The guy wants to message me a lot, every day. 90% of the time he is moaning, complaining and doing the whole victim thing for everything.

 

10% of the time he throws me some good funnies and cool stuff.

 

That part is all fine. I learnt to mute notifications and respond in calm, constructive ways when I have time in my day or eve.

 

But yesterday, silly me decided to respond at 11:30pm, in which he then decided to message back with more aggressive nonsense and talking about how he's considering suicide.

 

I really haven't got the patience for all this, because it's just another case of attention seeking. I'm a bit fed up that I've allowed this guy to get this far, but classic me always has a soft side that just lets these types of people in.

 

I'm looking for advice as to how to handle this. I always have two sides to me, either super nice or super-brutally horrible. I'd feel bad for shutting him out, as we all need a shoulder to cry on, but quite frankly, I just want to tell him to STFU, man up and go away.

[Lost in Translation]

I suggest meditating on what it is that you want and are are capable of giving in this relationship. Is he asking more than you are capable or willing to give? Be honest with yourself. Oftentimes we give because we feel we should and in the process drain ourselves because our desire exceeds our capacity. There is no blame in accepting limitations, either of capacity or desire. The highest goal in a relationship is truth.

[Michael Sternbach]

Yeah, Rara, that's always a tough one, gay or not. Saving the galaxy is so much easier...

 

But:

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Hi Rara,

 

When I thought a friend of mine was suicidal, I made him a no-nonsense offer.  I said..."If you really think you`re in danger, I`ll drive you to the emergency room."  This is probably not the right response for every depressive situation, but I felt good about it at the time because I felt that I was matter-of-factly offering the assistance that might have been necessary.  It`s a response that takes the suicidal talk seriously without communicating a willingness to endlessly listen to manipulative victim talk.

 

Not saying this is what you should do.  Just offering up a strategy for consideration.

[Michael Sternbach]

What I came up with so far as the result of my meditation:

 

I think the dude is trying to blackmail you. Which doesn't mean he might not actually mean what he says. Anyways, I understand you don't want to play that game.

 

So the issue seems to be to kind of put the responsibility for his life back on him - while still offering your compassion.

 

And I think that's what LL's post boils down to as well.

[cosmic4z]

Hi Rara,

 

Not sure how wise my advice is, but I'm thinking, could you ask him if he'd like to talk about it calmly? Also, maybe ask him why he has confided in you, what he hopes to achieve from doing so. Idea being, that you provide the space and he fills in the blanks (brings forth his own solutions).

Edited June 18, 2018 by cosmic4z

[Marblehead]

Good thing that's not happening to me.  I would probably ask him if he needed any help doing himself in.

 

[Aetherous]

We're taught in healthcare that if they have a plan to do it and the means, then it's serious. So if I were you, I'd make sure to ask them directly about that. If it's serious, then they need to be monitored until qualified help arrives...probably best to call EMS or police in that case.

There's still a chance that they'll do it if they don't have a plan, of course.

You don't want to live with it on your conscience that your coarseness might have been the last straw for a person's life...at least I think you won't in the future, when you look back. It's better if you help them.

 

You can tell them that you're very worried they're serious, and that you're not qualified...give them the national suicide help line to talk with someone who can offer more real help.

If it's just seeking attention, I can attest that is really annoying to deal with. Suicidal people are super draining and not fun to talk with.

But maybe you could put yourself in their shoes, and consider what it's like to be telling people you're going to no longer live, and they just push you away annoyed and won't even give you the time of day. At least personally, I would feel very worthless and alone if that was happening to me.

So...I encourage you to man up and give them a little bit of your time. Make sure they're going in the right direction getting help. I understand if even this is really hard to want to do, but if you do it, you can look back without deep regret.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Aetherous

[Starjumper]

6 hours ago, Rara said:

I just want to tell him to STFU, man up and go away.

 

Then do that.

[Kar3n]

Call 911 or whatever the emergency number is for your country and give them his address.

 

He will get help whether he wants it or not.

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Kar3n said:

Call 911 or whatever the emergency number is for your country and give them his address.

 

He will get help whether he wants it or not.

 

This is absolutely true.

 

When I was in grad school, some students were freaking out so hard about exams that several of them ended up in the mental health ward of San Diego. 

 

Spending 72 hours there will make anyone who threatens suicide either realize they wanted attention or far more suicidal because unfortunately, they don't distinguish much between patients who are outright 12 Monkeys crazy or emotionally melodramatic teens and twenty-somethings. 

 

Most people end up being the former because it's a reflection of the state of a society that is not sympathetic towards suicidal tendencies. 

 

As someone who was one of the three individuals there for 72 hours, I realized it wasn't suicide I wanted, it was an escape from a paradigm I hated, and suicide is usually a call for help or a last-resort escape from frustration. They call it Thanatos instinct according to the questionable Freudian theory. 

 

My escape after the right counseling was finding out grad school sucked, and being the fool who said the emperor was naked found that the politics of my department seriously tried everything they could to get rid of me, reinforcing those diminished feelings of self-worth.

 

I do not recommend a trip to the mental health ward via the police escorting you there, but some people sadly may need to see that the intensity of their call for help is not a joke. It is made worse when loaded with sedatives and anti-depressants for some individuals there. I was on one for three months and got off eventually. The upside is that it pushed me deeper into the Taoist practice and more discerning of the realities I entered in the workplace, academia, an apartment complex, a restaurant, whatever--finding the rules for each pocket of reality not the reality, and extrapolating from that, the emotional state I was in to be the negative zone I was writing for myself.

 

Granted, I pondered some of that last year too, but I actively seek help and express the emotions and appreciate the overwhelming support I always get (especially here). 

 

There are cycles of emotions, and your friend may be in their emotional winter and spiritual midnight--and perhaps you may be seeing them as a warning for your own too given your karmic lesson and test here. 

[Rara]

14 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

I suggest meditating on what it is that you want and are are capable of giving in this relationship. Is he asking more than you are capable or willing to give? Be honest with yourself. Oftentimes we give because we feel we should and in the process drain ourselves because our desire exceeds our capacity. There is no blame in accepting limitations, either of capacity or desire. The highest goal in a relationship is truth.

 

I know how much I can give, but it's like he doesn't get the hint. I've told him to get the help that is needed, and I will support him all the way. I guess I'm just fed up with him comong back with more moans having not taken the advice.

[Rara]

14 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

What I came up with so far as the result of my meditation:

 

I think the dude is trying to blackmail you. Which doesn't mean he might not actually mean what he says. Anyways, I understand you don't want to play that game.

 

So the issue seems to be to kind of put the responsibility for his life back on him - while still offering your compassion.

 

And I think that's what LL's post boils down to as well.

 

I think so too. If he's spending all this time on me, he's clearly mot talking to too many other people about his issue. Unfortunately, he does feel like one of those that needs to sap the energy out of those willing.

 

So I've taken your approach so far, I guess I just have to keep strong and not cave in to constantly entertaining his messages because as soon as I respond with one, I get five back.

 

I feel sorry for him, because he is lonely to an extent, but he has also made himself this way.

[Rara]

9 hours ago, Aetherous said:

If it's serious, then they need to be monitored until qualified help arrives

 

He did say that he has "some things to do first", which makes me feel he's just playing the fool.

 

He also idolises Chris Cornell though, and is saddened by his suicide. You never know though, it could prove to be a strong influence here.

9 hours ago, Aetherous said:

You don't want to live with it on your conscience that your coarseness might have been the last straw for a person's life...at least I think you won't in the future, when you look back. It's better if you help them.

 

 

I agree. 

10 hours ago, Aetherous said:

But maybe you could put yourself in their shoes, and consider what it's like to be telling people you're going to no longer live, and they just push you away annoyed and won't even give you the time of day. At least personally, I would feel very worthless and alone if that was happening to me.

 

Yes, and that's why I have given him the time of day so far. I have felt in places of lonliness and sadness and he has been there in part before. The difference is though, I encounter an issue, get over it and move on. He doesn't.

 

10 hours ago, Aetherous said:

So...I encourage you to man up and give them a little bit of your time. Make sure they're going in the right direction getting help. I understand if even this is really hard to want to do, but if you do it, you can look back without deep regret.

 Well I suppose there is no harm in seeing how he is when he is quiet and to go from there. But as I said, he is stubborn and doesn't want to get help. He "doesn't see the point anyway"...

[Rara]

10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Then do that.

 

That is my knee-jerk reaction. Where's that line in the TTC though, something about giving a few chances but if not getting anywhere then give up and move on...?

[Rara]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

As someone who was one of the three individuals there for 72 hours, I realized it wasn't suicide I wanted, it was an escape from a paradigm I hated, and suicide is usually a call for help or a last-resort escape from frustration. They call it Thanatos instinct according to the questionable Freudian theory. 

 

My escape after the right counseling was finding out grad school sucked, and being the fool who said the emperor was naked found that the politics of my department seriously tried everything they could to get rid of me, reinforcing those diminished feelings of self-worth.

 

 

This is one of the big things about him. To him, everything sucks. He keeps quitting jobs, temping, everything is always the fault of others or immigrants or something and I just don't support this nonsense.

 

Everyone else has to get through life, and I had to learn that the hard way. I used to whine like a bitch about this and that, went on meds with "depression" yadda yadda ya. At the end of the day though, there's only one way out and to take accountability and sort it out.

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, Rara said:

That is my knee-jerk reaction. Where's that line in the TTC though, something about giving a few chances but if not getting anywhere then give up and move on...?

 

Sorry I'm not familiar with that statement in the TTC.  It does sound like you've given the guy his chances.  Telling them to get lost, haul himself up by his bootstraps, and stop bothering you is a difficult kind of thing for me to do to as well but it gets easier.  However, you never know, being harsh in that manly manner could be just the thing both he and you need in order to bolster your self respect.  One of  the world's sages has said that already high suicide levels are going to skyrocket in the future and there really isn't that much we can do to turn that kind of population control program around.

 

You could also call 911 like Karen suggested.

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, Rara said:

I guess I'm just fed up with him comong back with more moans having not taken the advice.

I know how you feel I have known and still know some people like that. Makes me want to say "See you later alligator".

 

[Rara]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

Sorry I'm not familiar with that statement in the TTC.  It does sound like you've given the guy his chances.  Telling them to get lost, haul himself up by his bootstraps, and stop bothering you is a difficult kind of thing for me to do to as well but it gets easier.  However, you never know, being harsh in that manly manner could be just the thing both he and you need in order to bolster your self respect.  One of  the world's sages has said that already high suicide levels are going to skyrocket in the future and there really isn't that much we can do to turn that kind of population control program around.

 

You could also call 911 like Karen suggested.

 Yeah, it doesn't say it specifically, but something about giving chances and if after two you get nowhere, roll up the sleeves and throw them out. But I'd need to find this actual quote and get back to you, in case I have it wrong.

[thelerner]

It's a terrifying hard subject.  I think you do your best, be compassionate but at some point you can only save yourself.  Having given time, and skillful strategies, the final move is to leave them alone or set limits and minimize help.  See if they hit bottom, find there way and recover on there own. 

[ilumairen]

22 hours ago, Rara said:

So I have a friend that I met years ago on a job and I have always kept him at arm's length due to his rage.

 

He has some good qualities though, and we have a few interests in common, but having a friendship with the guy comes at a cost.

 

The guy wants to message me a lot, every day. 90% of the time he is moaning, complaining and doing the whole victim thing for everything.

 

10% of the time he throws me some good funnies and cool stuff.

 

That part is all fine. I learnt to mute notifications and respond in calm, constructive ways when I have time in my day or eve.

 

But yesterday, silly me decided to respond at 11:30pm, in which he then decided to message back with more aggressive nonsense and talking about how he's considering suicide.

 

I really haven't got the patience for all this, because it's just another case of attention seeking. I'm a bit fed up that I've allowed this guy to get this far, but classic me always has a soft side that just lets these types of people in.

 

I'm looking for advice as to how to handle this. I always have two sides to me, either super nice or super-brutally horrible. I'd feel bad for shutting him out, as we all need a shoulder to cry on, but quite frankly, I just want to tell him to STFU, man up and go away.

All those negative words and thoughts he shares are painting the world he lives in. And based on you mentioning responding in calm and constructive ways, I'm guessing you've tried to help him see the world differently. 

 

And I don't know how he responds to this, but there are a few things I've noticed in my own experiences. 

 

Sometimes the individual will feel as though their experience and feelings are being negated. And sometimes they'll feel better - while you're around, and then when you're not the same thought patterns will arise. 

 

And as you mentioned rage, there are those who will fight with everything they have to hold onto their mind constructs.

 

And the only real advice I have is to maintain your center - which is sometimes easier said than done. 

 

I don't know your friend. And I don't know how serious he is..

 

Others here have given some good advice regarding him.. And in different situations I've followed most of it. 

 

You're in my thoughts

[Rara]

16 hours ago, ilumairen said:

And the only real advice I have is to maintain your center - which is sometimes easier said than done. 

 

Yes, in fact, when I wrote the OP, I had been quite tired the previous day and having got a string of messages just before bed, it shook me up a bit. With all the advice given, some space and rest, I feel a lot better in myself about handling this.

 

As predicted, no mention of "it" last night. Just a string of World Cup updates.

 

16 hours ago, ilumairen said:

You're in my thoughts

 

[Marblehead]

What's the saying?  All things must pass.

 

[cosmic4z]

How did this pan out Rara?

 

I hope you found the wisdom and the right words, right approach to help your friend.

[Lost in Translation]

On 6/20/2018 at 2:47 AM, Marblehead said:

What's the saying?  All things must pass.

 

 

This too shall pass.