What is a Daoist?

[Lost in Translation]

What is a Daoist?

 

I'm not asking about Daoism. That is well documented. I am asking about the Daoist himself (or herself). What does a Daoist do? What are the defining events that make a Daoist, well, a Daoist?

[wandelaar]

As there are many versions of Taoism, there will also be many types of Taoists. But to me it's a person with a certain view of life (as described by Lao tzu and Chuang tzu) and a corresponding personality structure that makes it possible to joyfully and relatively effortlessly live according to that view of life.

 

It may take some study and training to reach that stage. 

[Lost in Translation]

10 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

joyfully and relatively effortlessly live

 

This is the kernel of what I am interested in. Are you saying a Daoist is, by virtue of his understanding of Tao, someone who lives joyfully and effortlessly? How does he do that?

[Starjumper]

As in most religions, the main requirement is a silly hat:

 

[Lost in Translation]

"Fezzes are cool!"

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lost in Translation
Added image. Removed link

[wandelaar]

45 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

This is the kernel of what I am interested in. Are you saying a Daoist is, by virtue of his understanding of Tao, someone who lives joyfully and effortlessly? How does he do that?

 

I put that part in because forcing oneself to live like a Taoist would be missing a crucial part of being a Taoist. As I understand it now the joy and effortlessness comes from:

 

- Realising that you are on the exact road that you want to be on.

- Applying the playful game of changing your perspective as it befits the situation.

- Enjoying the creative solutions that your subconsciousness comes up with when it is no longer restricted by egocentric considerations.

- Appreciating the little pleasures the world affords us at (almost) no cost when you no longer care about cheap and expensive, big and small, important and unimportant, etc.

- Being able to take it easy because you no longer feel the need to prove yourself.

 

There are probably some more, but you get the idea. A very good book on being a Taoist in daily life is:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Daily-Life-Enlightenment-Illuminated/dp/1585425834 

 

(I don't consider myself a full-blown Taoist as yet, but I think I understand and sometimes experience what the sages were after.)

Edited June 19, 2018 by wandelaar

[Lost in Translation]

So what's our conclusion? Is a Daoist someone who approaches life seriously while maintaining a soft and light demeanor, one who understands emotionally the omnipresence of change and does not clutch too tightly to what is at the current moment, who is filled with dispassionate love and compassion; or is a Daoist someone who wears a funny hat?

 

Or is it both?

[Marblehead]

A Daoist is a person who does their best to follow the Way of Dao.  Tzujan baby!

 

[Rara]

On 19/06/2018 at 6:13 PM, Lost in Translation said:

 

This is the kernel of what I am interested in. Are you saying a Daoist is, by virtue of his understanding of Tao, someone who lives joyfully and effortlessly? How does he do that?

 

I know of many dudes that I could call "Daoist" and yet they probably don't know what one is.

 

Maybe it's forgetting one's self that defines it

[Lost in Translation]

4 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

I know of many dudes that I could call "Daoist" and yet they probably don't know what one is.

 

Maybe it's forgetting one's self that defines it

 

A "Daoist" is a "Daoist" who does not know what a "Daoist" is? Hmm... I can accept that. I knew someone like that once.

[Aaron]

A Taoist, by definition, is someone who identifies as a follower of Taoism, or follows the teaching of Taoism. It's nothing more than a title in the end and should not be deemed to certify someone as "in the know". There are a lot of Taoists who merely identify and have no understanding of the deeper meaning. Remember, "he who knows says little."

 

edit- I should add, that's fine too. If that's what they need, then let them be.  

Edited June 21, 2018 by Aaron

[Lost in Translation]

It's easy to say a Daoist follows Daoism. Ok. Great. But what does a Daoist do? What are the actions a Daoist takes that identifies him as a Daoist?

 

For example a Jew prays to the God of the Torrah, keeps kosher, obeys the ten commandments, attends synagogue, etc. What does a Daoist do?

[Starjumper]

43 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

It's easy to say a Daoist follows Daoism. Ok. Great. But what does a Daoist do? What are the actions a Daoist takes that identifies him as a Daoist?

 

For example a Jew prays to the God of the Torrah, keeps kosher, obeys the ten commandments, attends synagogue, etc. What does a Daoist do?

 

[Rara]

20 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

A "Daoist" is a "Daoist" who does not know what a "Daoist" is? Hmm... I can accept that. I knew someone like that once.

 

It's not as if Laozi or Zhuangzi were Daoists...but they followed the Way.

[Rara]

56 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

It's easy to say a Daoist follows Daoism. Ok. Great. But what does a Daoist do? What are the actions a Daoist takes that identifies him as a Daoist?

 

For example a Jew prays to the God of the Torrah, keeps kosher, obeys the ten commandments, attends synagogue, etc. What does a Daoist do?

 

This is a very good question. To my mind, those from other philosophical or religious backgrounds still have SOME common grounds with Daoism and Daoist ways.

 

And if I call myself a Daoist, I can assure you I still do many non-Daoist things.

[wandelaar]

@ Lost in Translation

 

Again you will have to specify what kind of a Taoist you mean:

- Is he* on some esoteric path?

- Is he a religious Taoist believing in gods, spirits, immortals and all that?

- Is he a philosophical Taoist?

- Is he someone who just wants to call himself a Taoist for whatever reason, without caring about what it means?

 

As to philosophical Taoists I think it's all about a certain view of life and a corresponding personality structure. Because the basics of early Taoist philosophy are extremely simple ("don't overdo things", "don't imagine you are something special", "recognize the world as it is") it happens that even some ordinary western people know and live by those basic rules without even having learned about philosophy (let alone eastern philosophy). Taoist philosophy is just a bunch of aphorisms.   It's the intellectuals (like myself) who have a lot to learn, or rather to unlearn. As to personality structure, being a simple person is a great advantage when you want to be a philosophical Taoist, because then you are almost there already. So I think being a philosophical Taoist is not so much about doing certain things. It is more about thinking about and experiencing life in a certain way. And yes - that will then show in what you do.

 

* I'm not going to write "he/she" every time, when I write "he" it's to mean "he or she" when both apply.

Edited June 21, 2018 by wandelaar

[Michael Sternbach]

When I call myself a Daoist, sometimes people are surprised and say they thought of me as a Hermeticist. I tell them that I see no contradiction between the two. In fact, I started studying the Yijing and the DDJ (not to mention Eastern martial arts) earlier than the Hermetic philosophy and arts. In many ways, I think of them as equivalents. They also complement each other in a fashion.

 

To me, calling myself a Daoist simply means that I find much of value in the ancient Daoist teachings. I do read them a certain way (which everybody does) and try to apply them as I see fit.

 

Marblehead did call me a Daoist on some occasions, and he must know.

[Rara]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

When I call myself a Daoist, sometimes people are surprised and say they thought of me as a Hermeticist. I tell them that I see no contradiction between the two. In fact, I started studying the Yijing and the DDJ (not to mention Eastern martial arts) earlier than the Hermetic philosophy and arts. In many ways, I think of them as equivalents. They also complement each other in a fashion.

 

To me, calling myself a Daoist simply means that I find much of value in the ancient Daoist teachings. I do read them a certain way (which everybody does) and try to apply them as I see fit.

 

Marblehead did call me a Daoist on some occasions, and he must know.

 

I did read The Kybalion and nodded my head all the way through.

 

Whether or not I am technically a Daoist, I practice what I feel is important universally: interfere as little as possible with other people, be kind to both them and nature. With this, I do not introduce myself to anyone as a Daoist. Why should they care anyway?

 

If people really want to know about me, I mention the Tai Chi and liking the Daoist philosophy and and then see where the convo goes. 95% of the time they will then go on to talk about themselves and their teachings. Good for them

[cosmic4z]

On 19/06/2018 at 5:39 PM, Lost in Translation said:

What is a Daoist?

 

I'm not asking about Daoism. That is well documented. I am asking about the Daoist himself (or herself). What does a Daoist do? What are the defining events that make a Daoist, well, a Daoist?

 

I would think of a Daoist as a human being who has a strong interest in, and derives benefit from, the study and practice of Daoist texts and arts.

 

I wonder, is there is a point at which you are so proficient in your understand and practice, that you have the legitimate right to call youself a Daoist?

[Marblehead]

What does a Daoist do?

 

Many of them spend a lot of time on the internet.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, cosmic4z said:

 

I would think of a Daoist as a human being who has a strong interest in, and derives benefit from, the study and practice of Daoist texts and arts.

 

I wonder, is there is a point at which you are so proficient in your understand and practice, that you have the legitimate right to call youself a Daoist?

 

I don't think so. 'Daoist' isn't some kind of honorary title; it simply expresses that you resonate with Daoist lore. And who else could tell that but yourself?

[Lost in Translation]

It seems defining a Daoist is a tricky matter. 

 

A Daoist probably knows about Daoism and probably tries to live his life according to the accepted teachings, be it Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, I Ching, or even Winnie the Pooh (yeah, it's a thing). But a Daoist might not have heard of any of these things and may indeed live life by sheer chance in the manner of the sages.

 

A Daoist might engage in energy work, be it Tai Chi, Chi Gong, Nei Kung, Moon Pie (it's a joke!), or whatever teachings there are. Of course he may not.

 

A Daoist may wear a funny hat. But maybe he doesn't.

 

So really we have no idea what a Daoist is. I find this to be an oddly satisfying answer...

Edited June 22, 2018 by Lost in Translation

[Starjumper]

I think it's pretty clear in the religion end of things.  There are Taoist temples which have their priests and acolytes who would be officially Taoist. and then there are habitual 'church' goers, I think they would consider themselves to be Taoists also.

 

There's another part of the religion, the purely Taoist nei kung systems which lead to enlightenment and immortality (as opposed to the weak systems that are stained by Buddhist practices, which are in the majority) are considered to be official parts of the Taoist religion, therefore those who practice this and adepts and masters who teach it, although extremely rare and often hidden, are real Taoists as well.  I think it's kind of cool that the deeper mystical parts of the system, which are essentially 'underground' are officially included in the religion.

 

Then we get to the other internal arts, which are purely Taoist lineages,  The masters in such lineages 'should' consider themselves to be Taoists, although I know of one who appear to be Christian.  As for the students of such things, anything goes.

 

Of course a lot of hot air has already been passed here about philosophical Taoists so no need to comment on that.

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

51 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

It seems defining a Daoist is a tricky matter. 

 

A Daoist probably knows about Daoism and probably tries to live his life according to the accepted teachings, be it Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, I Ching, or even Winnie the Pooh (yeah, it's a thing). But a Daoist might not have heard of any of these things and may indeed live life by sheer chance in the manner of the sages.

 

A Daoist might engage in energy work, be it Tai Chi, Chi Gong, Nei Kung, Moon Pie (it's a joke!), or whatever teachings there are. Of course he may not.

 

A Daoist may wear a funny hat. But maybe he doesn't.

 

So really we have no idea what a Daoist is. I find this to be an oddly satisfying answer...

 

How about this: The Daoist that can be defined is not the real Daoist?

[wandelaar]

2 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

How about this: The Daoist that can be defined is not the real Daoist?

 

Don't see any problem in defining a Taoist as long as one recognizes there are different types of Taoists that each need their own definition to be precise. But in my opinion one goes against the very basics of Taoism by claiming to be a real Taoist as opposed to Taoists of other persuasions, because in that case you value the claim to a label and corresponding status above the experience itself.