Phoenix3 Posted June 23, 2018 Obviously i’m not there yet, but I’m quite sure that Theravada Buddhist monks do not experience an increase in saliva production, and hence do not have neidan, despite being able to experience emptiness in meditation (probably). So what else is there to do? I notice that a lot of neidan texts seem to refer to the spine and the wei lu, yu zhen and jia ji gates, so perhaps after achieving emptiness, one has to develop their kundalini energy? I’ve read secret of the golden flower, but it just seems to say if one meditates on stillness over and over again, then neidan will arrive eventually. But as I said before, Theravada Buddhist monks do that and they don’t get Neidan, so there must be something else one can do. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 23, 2018 After attaining empty-mindedness the only thing left to do is get up and live to the fullest extent of your capabilities and capacities. Don't search for immortality - just a long, good and healthy life. I know. Others will offer more complicated advice. That's okay too. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nebulae Bred Posted June 24, 2018 17 hours ago, Wuschel said: learning to access emptiness is just the beginning. it is like having a baby, you have to be there for it 24/7, and it will grow stillnes/an empty mind is not emptiness Any recommended literature/media on emptiness? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted June 25, 2018 The only real, tangible and scientifically proven benefit of Buddhist meditation is to get rid of suffering and all of its paraphernalia (stress, attachment, destructive emotions). The goal of neidan is to achieve a transcendental state of spiritual semi-material immortality after death and to ride golden unicorns on the rainbow and singing with magical cerulean dragons. But the most you can get with it, is just strange tactile sensations that will trick you into believing that you are into something. If you want to specialize in neidan and actually have a chance not to waste your time with it, you need to find John Chang junior. 1 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 6:44 AM, Phoenix3 said: Obviously i’m not there yet, but I’m quite sure that Theravada Buddhist monks do not experience an increase in saliva production, Why are you "quite sure" - just search https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita#Theravada_Buddhism Quote "Revered Nagasena, what is the nectar shop of the Buddha, the Blessed One?" "Nectar, sire, has been pointed out by the Blessed One. With this nectar the Blessed One sprinkles the world with the devas; when the devas and the humans have been sprinkled with this nectar, they are set free from birth, aging, disease, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. What is this nectar? It is mindfulness occupied with the body. And this too, sire, was said by the Blessed One: 'Monks, they partake of nectar (the deathless) who partake of mindfulness that is occupied with the body.' This, sire, is called the Blessed One's nectar shop." — Miln 335[7] Your logic is faulty. "The Blessed One's City of Dhamma: From the Milindapañha", based on the translation by I.B. Horner. Access to Insight (Legacy Edition), 30 November 2013, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/horner/bl130.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted June 30, 2018 It doesn’t sound like he was referring to saliva itself though. More a stage or type of meditation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted June 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Phoenix3 said: It doesn’t sound like he was referring to saliva itself though. More a stage or type of meditation. I wouldn't let semantics get in the way of understanding the psychophysiology. If you have the tongue against the roof of the mouth this activates the vagus nerve which then increases saliva but it ALSO connects the front and back channel - as the Upper Magpie Bridge - so that cerebrospinal fluid flows out of the sinus cavity. So this fluid is charged with qi via the pineal gland. http://thekundaliniprocess.blogspot.com/2009/12/responses-to-questions-about-cerebro.html So here this person discusses the Buddha on Amrita... it is not "saliva" but it merges with the saliva - it's not an neither/nor situation but a both/and.... I Quote n an early article Yogananda described one of the benefits of practicing Khechari Mudra: It draws energy from the cerebrum and medulla by connecting the tip of the big tongue with the little tongue (uvula). He gave a more esoteric explanation in a lecture in India during his visit there in 1935-6: While practicing Kriya… a divine nectar-like current flows from the sahasrara (chakra, or spinal center, at the top of the head)...The positive and negative energies in the tongue and nasal passages (or uvula), when joined together, create a cycle of energy in the head which, instead of allowing the energy to flow outward to the body, generates a magnetic field that draws energy upward from the body and from the base of the spine to the brain. https://www.ananda.org/blog/paramhansa-yogananda-and-khechari-mudra/ Quote The salivary secretions which occur during the stage of ching-an are unusually sweet, but this sweetness will also vary at times (as will the thickness or viscosity of this secretion) due to a predominance of what the Hindu schools call the five tattwas, or five elements. Hindu yoga explains that an earth predominating tattwa would cause this secretion to be very sweet, a bit of excessive fire tattwa would make this sweetness a little bitter, and excessive air tattwa leads to a slightly acidic taste. You can actually taste the meaning of the "five elements" as this hormone takes on various flavors. http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/15330-sweet-nectar-taste-in-mouth-from-simran/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted June 30, 2018 2 hours ago, voidisyinyang said: ... So that cerebrospinal fluid flows out of the sinus cavity. YAhahaha 2 hours ago, voidisyinyang said: So this fluid is charged with qi via the pineal gland. Wank, wank, wank. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted June 30, 2018 Quote What else is there to do, after being able to meditate on emptiness? After being successful in no mind, non thinking, meditation the next step is to work on establishing non thinking during your day to day activities. This leads to what is called clarity. After nonthinking is firmly established during your day to day activities then thought can return to stillness because then it will not distract one out of clarity. Once clarity is established then one's life long pursuit is stillness within movement within ethics, which is Te, virtue. When a person can navigate through difficult day to day situations while maintaining an inner stillness then you are closer to becoming one with the Tao. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Starjumper said: YAhahaha Wank, wank, wank. Quote The dragon and tiger are therefore the components or ingredients of mundane generative energy. Do not confuse them with their carriers, fluid and vapor. Central to the preservation and cultivation of generative energy is the process known as the copulation of the dragon and tiger. The yin and yang components of generative energy meet and merge to become purified generative energy, with is also called the primordial vapor. [yuan qi or water pre-birth qi]. The process begins with the vapors of pure yang (dragon) and pure yin (tiger) rising from the base of the spine and traveling separately up the spine and through the shoulder blades. When the vapors reach the head, they interact (copulate) and merge to become one unified vapor. This unified vapor descents to the palate of the mouth and is manifested as nectar, a sweet, sticky fluid. Swallowed down the throat, the nectar enters the middle tan-t'ian (in the area of the solar plexus) and eventually completes its circuit when it reaches the base of the spine again.“ Nourishing the Essence of Life : The Outer, Inner and Secret Teachings of Taoism . Translated with and Introduction by Eva Wong. Boston, Shambhala, 2004. Pages 9-10, 8-23,94. Translation of three texts from the Daoist Canon, circa 1400 CE, called The Mysteries of the Tao (Tao-hsuan p'ien), Understanding the Mysteries (Wu-shuan p'ien), and the Sacred Treatise on the Great Mystery (T'ai-hsuan pao-tien) of the Complete Reality School of Daoism. Quote And in that full moon day the nectar, amrita, [ambrosia] ripens. Until lowering into the external mind from kundalini heights, time stands still. Tamil alchemical Tirumantiram 875 pineal gland= full moon energy. Quote Route II: Micro-Cosmic Circulation This route is the same as above, except when the Qi passes through the foramen magnum. The Qi enters into the brain through the Cingular Gyrus. The Qi travels along the Cingular Gyrus and enters into the third ventricle. At the chamber near the pineal gland, the Qi turns around and down the brain stem into the Vagus nerve and back to the lower Dan Tian. This is called the micro cosmic circulation. In Dao meditation, the micro-cosmic… the meridian of Ren, in our opinion, equivalent to the Vagus nerve in the abdomen Dr. Shuang Yan Guan Zhu, physician Alchemy: Science of Enlightenment scribd Quote Internally, Soma is associated with the Bindu point of transcendence located in the head center. The symbolism of the Bindu and Soma are both associated with the Moon. The Bindu point and crescent Moon are seen at the top of the Sanskrit Om symbol of infinity. Through advanced meditation, Soma nectar is said to drop from the Bindu down to the throat or Vishuddhi chakra where one drinks the internal nectar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 7:44 PM, Phoenix3 said: ... so there must be something else one can do. Hi Phoenix3, Yes. That something else - get to know yourself better. - LimA 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted June 30, 2018 http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php@story=TheCrystalPalace&mode=print.html Quote The cerebrospinal fluid and collect in the ventricle underneath the pineal gland (possibly finding its way to the sphenoid sinus under the pituitary). At a point of maximum excitation, very much like an orgasm, this fluid is excreted out from the sinuses and into the back of the throat....The amrita is forced out of the brain at the peak of ecstatic charge, not for any purpose in itself perhaps, but because there is simply too high a hydraulic and ionic pressure within the Cerebrospinal Fluid (CFS) that it is forced out of the ventricles, and into the sphenoid sinus. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted June 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Starjumper said: YAhahaha Wank, wank, wank. ~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~ Although the Gordon Liu pic brings a nice walk down memory lane of his works... you need to work on creating better memories of posts here. We can only take so many reports that seem to have a valid concern. I don't suggest you have to like someone where but you will need to let them say what they have to say if we deem it is acceptable. ~~~ / Admin Out ~~~ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted July 1, 2018 OK, sorry you got some reports, but this: Quote ... So that cerebrospinal fluid flows out of the sinus cavity. The mental picture of spinal fluid dripping out of someone's nose was hilarious. The rest of it was off topic and like, who cares. I did read a little bit of one of his links posted and read where he got the idea from. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Quote The cranial CSF displays a rapid caudally-directed ventricular flow followed by a slower rostrally-directed subarachnoid flow (mainly towards the cribriform plate and from there into the nasal lymphatics). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821375/ Cerebrospinal Fluid Res. 2010; 7: 1. Published online 2010 Jan 6. doi: 10.1186/1743-8454-7-1 PMCID: PMC2821375 PMID: 20157443 The regulation of brain states by neuroactive substances distributed via the cerebrospinal fluid; a review Edited July 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) On 6/23/2018 at 7:44 PM, Phoenix3 said: ... there must be something else one can do. 16 hours ago, Limahong said: Yes. That something else - get to know yourself better. Hi Phoenix3, - LimA Edited July 1, 2018 by Limahong Enhance ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted July 1, 2018 Quote Recent animal investigations, however, have shown that at least 50% and perhaps up to 80% or more of the CSF leaves the cranial cavity through the cribriform plate, via the perineuronal spaces surrounding the olfactory nerves, to drain into the nasal and cervical lymphatics (Fig 2) [64-70]. This rostral outflow of CSF contains considerable amounts of interstitial fluid, especially from midbrain areas [71,72], and plays an important role in CNS immune system interactions [68,73]. https://openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult.php?img=PMC2821375_1743-8454-7-1-2&req=4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Starjumper said: YAhahaha 2 hours ago, Starjumper said: hilarious Hi Steve, A great weekend. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted July 1, 2018 Thanks, but does this fluid affect the vagus nerve, or is it just swallowed into the stomach? Like yin qi travels up the du mai, I thought this fluid may affect the ren mai, but most sources say that it is simply swallowed, where it is then absorbed in the gut. After all, the vagus nerve doesn’t enter the tongue or palate area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phoenix3 said: After all, the vagus nerve doesn’t enter the tongue or palate area. Vagal afferent activation induces salivation and swallowing-like events ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27707722 by H Ueda - 2016 - Related articles Oct 5, 2016 - Vagal afferent activation induces salivation and swallowing-like events in ... salivation and increased the activity of the vagal afferent nerve. Activation of Phosphatidylcholine Cycle Enzymes in Human Epithelial ... cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/5/2126 by E Iorio - 2010 - Cited by 142 - Related articles Mar 1, 2010 - Altered phosphatidylcholine (PC) metabolism in epithelial ovarian cancer (EOC) could provide choline-based imaging approaches as powerful ... It is through the epithelial cells - activated by the vagus nerve. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25433161 Quote Phosphatidylethanolamine N-methyltransferase (PEMT), a liver enriched enzyme, is responsible for approximately one third of hepatic phosphatidylcholine [lecithin] biosynthesis. When fed a high-fat diet (HFD), Pemt(-/-) mice are protected from HF-induced obesity; however, they develop steatohepatitis. The vagus nerve relays signals between liver and brain that regulate peripheral adiposity and pancreas function. Here we explore a possible role of the hepatic branch of the vagus nerve in the development of diet induced obesity and steatohepatitis in Pemt(-/-) mice. Edited July 1, 2018 by voidisyinyang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zetsu Posted July 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Wuschel said: maybe i got your definitions wrong, but i want to stress again that the buddhist term emptiness doesn't refer to non-thinking. non-thinking, just like thinking, is just another part of creation. like the space between objects, it's not beyond objects You can think while being empty, you can think without verbalization of thoughts, This kind of thinking is more powerful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted July 1, 2018 If you are still there when meditating on emptiness then there is still a duality between you and your meditation object. Even if the meditation is emptiness if there is a duality it just means your mind has created an object which it calls emptiness. The collapse of that duality results in realisation that you are the emptiness, it is what is reading this text right now. After that it is just a matter of being what you already are. Being what you are will open many of the energy gates as most of them are held shut by psychic tensions which all revolve around the sense of being a seperate "I". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Starjumper said: The rest of it was off topic and like, who cares. Hi Steve, I cared at the start to understand - but now it is really beyond me to follow. But I do recognize the effort behind the... - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted July 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Wuschel said: maybe i got your definitions wrong, but i want to stress again that the buddhist term emptiness doesn't refer to non-thinking. non-thinking, just like thinking, is just another part of creation. like the space between objects, it's not beyond objects OK, I'll take your word for it. I have no idea what emptiness refers to and as far as I'm concerned it's only religious word games and doesn't exist ... unless someone can explain it in plain English, saying what it is rather than what it is not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) On 6/24/2018 at 6:24 PM, Nebulae Bred said: Any recommended literature/media on emptiness? Yes, you generally want something 5 or 600 pages. Hold it a few inches from your head and when a thought comes, Whack. Kidding, but imo it's not a book you need. It's your ears. Breath so quietly there is absolutely no sound. It tends to create a slow but not too slow rthym. You can no longer sniff the air and have to use slow abdominal movement. I find the focus on listening helps create a deep quiet alertness. Edited July 1, 2018 by thelerner 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
