cosmic cycles

[3bob]

47 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

As an addict to Taoist cosmology, I was formulating a post but your beat me to some point... 

 

Laozi is not the best source of Taoist cosmology... there are about 4-5 texts which are much more revealing.  His is more a summary of the manifest unfolding.

 

The Taiyishenshui states, in one study:

that the Taiyi sheng shui is the only text which explicitly reflects the idea of reciprocal assistance and interdependence among different phases of the cosmologic process. To be specific the Taiyi sheng shui says: “太一生水, 水反輔太一, 是以成天” (Taiyi [Grand One] gives birth to water. Water returns and assists Taiyi, thereby forming Heaven.) This passage clearly implies a reciprocal interaction and interdependence between the cosmogonic phases of Taiyi and water. To be specific, although Taiyi generates water according to the Taiyi sheng shui,, water assists Taiyi in forming the other cosmogonic stage of tian 天. Likewise, though the Taiyi sheng shui offers an account of somewhat hierarchical steps of genesis similar to those offered by other Chinese texts on cosmogony, the Taiyi sheng shui is particularly noteworthy in that it explicitly illustrates reciprocal interaction between the different cosmogonic stages.

 

The other very ancient text, HengXian, Primordial Beginnings, is also a better text for Taoist cosmological understanding.

 

To the comments so far, it may be like a wave coming to the shore that splashes up and returns to sea and then returns to the short to 'return and assist', over and over... thus creating a new expansion of One on each return.  I get that some might call that Two, Three, etc.   but that is from the perspective of the manifest and not original origins, whereby the original One becomes a new One each time.  

 

Very interesting Dawei, thanks for the research...I've read something like those principals being implied by another school but that was many years ago and it escapes right now.

[Michael Sternbach]

On 10.7.2018 at 4:41 AM, 3bob said:

since all exceptionally long cosmic cycles have the same causal source, and sequences of creation, maintenance and dissolution it would seem to follow that they are all identical and gloriously repetitive...    along with all types of forms and souls repetitively going through all the motions in same.   Now that does not really sound like evolution resulting in anything that brings about cosmic or even an end game of change  for beings since cosmic dissolution also claims them, thus it sounds like we are in and part of  a fated machine although a truly incredible, diverse and long lasting one!  Btw, the Self (per the Upanishads) cannot gain or lose anything thus It is non-evolutionary.  Considering these points how many would say we then have an unanswerable why about the big picture?  (although beings may have eons and dharmic motive to participate in and enjoy a cosmic cycle as much as possible there is still noting that can really be gained or lost regarding true identity)

 

As seen from the perspective of the evolving entity, the Self you speak of is in the future. It is that Entelechy, the Telos, the Great Attractor which needs that evolutionary process in order to become what it is.

 

True that outside space-time, all exists simultaneously... Infinite possibilities, that must, however, be actualized. And many never come to blossom. Or maybe they do - in another world.

 

As one cycle ends - in dissolution alright - and another one begins, something is carried over: an information; a seed; a genetic code. Call it a karmic turnover! And once again, the wheel starts turning... Will this ever end? Is it even supposed to?

 

Just some incoherent late night ramblings... 

 

Cool topic, anyways.

[3bob]

29 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

As seen from the perspective of the evolving entity, the Self you speak of is in the future. It is that Entelechy, the Telos, the Great Attractor which needs that evolutionary process in order to become what it is.

 

True that outside space-time, all exists simultaneously... Infinite possibilities, that must, however, be actualized. And many never come to blossom. Or maybe they do - in another world.

 

As one cycle ends - in dissolution alright - and another one begins, something is carried over: an information; a seed; a genetic code. Call it a karmic turnover! And once again, the wheel starts turning... Will this ever end? Is it even supposed to?

 

Just some incoherent late night ramblings... 

 

Cool topic, anyways.

 

Cool late night ramblings.... I see the summation in your first sentence differently.  To me the Self already is and needs no becoming per-se... thus becoming as you've brought up is to me really a manifesting of Self through the  evolution of a matrix for such to happen.  (as far as that is possible for certain and various matrices which are not the Self Itself but more like  vehicles that drive or are driven) 

Edited July 11, 2018 by 3bob

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, 3bob said:

 

so a Jeff can make assumptions and or put words in my mouth?

 

I am confused, did you not say above that a Satguru was not simply playing out of a movie like a normal person? And if so, does that not imply independent action (or free will)?

[3bob]

yes Jeff you are confused....

[Marblehead]

10 hours ago, 3bob said:

yes Jeff you are confused....

I attain that state oftentimes too.

 

[3bob]

one for MH...

 

“Means and Ends
 

The purpose of a fish trap 
Is to catch fish,
And when the fish are caught
The trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare
Is to catch rabbits. 
When the rabbits are caught
The snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words
Is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped
The words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man
Who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.” 
― Thomas Merton, The Way of Chuang Tzu