OldDog Posted July 13, 2018 16 hours ago, Harmen said: In my opinion the Yi always answers the question asked so when it seems as if it didn't it is best to ask your self "what am I missing or not seeing?" Some thoughts ... The advice here seems to be saying that if you get a response from the yi that does not make sense perhaps you should reevaluate your assumptions about the situation in the inquiry. Can one, indeed, approach the yi with a preconcieved notion of the situation that is at odds with reality? Goes to the quality of the question and how you approach the yi ... sincerity. Wondering if there is not a western bias at work that is influencing ability to use the yi. The western scientific oriented approach is to state a supposition and then determine if the evidence supports it. If one approaches the yi in that manner ... then is one really positioned to receive a furthering response? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted July 13, 2018 Different answers - and that is OK with me. This topic is meant to investigate what I Ching users do when the found hexagram doesn't seem to relate to the question asked. Apparently there is no "orthodox or standard way" to deal with this, or is there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, OldDog said: Wondering if there is not a western bias at work that is influencing ability to use the yi. The western scientific oriented approach is to state a supposition and then determine if the evidence supports it. If one approaches the yi in that manner ... then is one really positioned to receive a furthering response? Maybe not. When the I Ching is somehow dependent on a spiritual entity it could be that the entity in question doesn't like critical investigators. In that case the results a critical investigator gets could deviate considerably from the results of a "believer". See also: https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/sheep-goat-effect Such an effect however is not in principle beyond scientific investigation, but one would have to use a specially designed experimental set up to investigate it. Edited July 13, 2018 by wandelaar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted July 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, wandelaar said: Different answers - and that is OK with me. This topic is meant to investigate what I Ching users do when the found hexagram doesn't seem to relate to the question asked. Apparently there is no "orthodox or standard way" to deal with this, or is there? If I truly do not understand the response of the I Ching then I ask for clarification and cast again. I then look at both castings together, first to see how the latter influences the original question then to see how that latter influences the former casting. There have been instances where I was not able to satisfy my question fully, but even in such instances I usually take away at least a word or phrase of advice. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted July 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Harmen said: 5 hours ago, Bindi said: I can't imagine any direct association exists between random answers to any specific question beyond chance. Exactly. But that doesn't mean that the answer cannot be made meaningful. The Western perspective often is 'it happened by chance and therefore does not have any relevant meaning.' The early Chinese point of view is more like 'it happened by chance and therefore has relevant meaning.' It's a different perspective on the value of chance. I want to reiterate this different perspective on chance. This is so very fundamental to understanding the I Ching and to working with it as an oracle. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted July 13, 2018 Sometimes I get a hexagram which seems to not apply so well, or it's unsure. In those cases I pay special attention to what king Wen did. I don't know if the version you use talks much about king Wen, but the Alfred Huang version does, and there's always a part which talks about how king Wen was faced with a certain situation and what he did about it in order to have the best outcome, describing what is the best solution for a particular situation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said: I want to reiterate this different perspective on chance. This is so very fundamental to understanding the I Ching and to working with it as an oracle. That's an interesting issue worthy of its own topic. Started: Edited July 13, 2018 by wandelaar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldDog Posted July 13, 2018 32 minutes ago, wandelaar said: When the I Ching is somehow dependent on a spiritual entity ... My initial reaction is to reject the notion of a spiritual entity ... preferring, instead, to accept the notion that the Yi as the measure of heaven and earth (model) that is all encompassing and therefore capable of speaking to all situations without regard to spiritual bias. So, I have to admit of being a 'goat'. But all that means is that maybe I am just not consciously attuned to some manifestations of spirituality. I have seen convincing evidence of a spiritual realm that I cannot otherwise explain. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
