What Did The Buddha Actually Say

[rideforever]

Did Sidharttha Gautama actually say the Four Noble Truths ?  And the Eight .... whatever it was ?   And the Five .... thingies ?

 

Did he actually say this stuff ?
I can't tell look these things up on vast Wikipedia articles its difficult to tell, these things are in the suttras but who wrote them ?

Buddhism long ago became a religion for people who want to imagine they don't exist so they don't have to get off their arse and can spend their life shaving their heads, shaving their food, shaving their heart, shaving everything.

 

Because somehow shaving everything is a wonderful expression of existence.

 

Probably existence made a mistake creating the whole world, and now little monkeys called Buddhists have to fix up existence because existence was so dumb.   Nice logic.

 

In Christianity at least you can read the words of Jesus of Nazareth quite clearly in the gospels and if you throw everything else away you have some good quality instructions.

 

But with Buddhism doesn't seem to have any direct quotes just mountains of words, all beginning with a number the Eight this or the Sixty Nine that.

!!!

[rideforever]

Here's an answer:

"The short answer to this question is very simple: we do not really know. That, however, is not really an acceptable answer to most people because in the past 2500 years or more, many had produced what they claimed were teachings they received from the Buddha directly."

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/features/what-exactly-did-the-buddha-say-

And so I will make up my own mind then that Sidharttha was not actually a suicidally depressed maniac !!!

[Miroku]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Did Sidharttha Gautama actually say the Four Noble Truths ?  And the Eight .... whatever it was ?   And the Five .... thingies ?

 

Did he actually say this stuff ?
I can't tell look these things up on vast Wikipedia articles its difficult to tell, these things are in the suttras but who wrote them ?

Buddhism long ago became a religion for people who want to imagine they don't exist so they don't have to get off their arse and can spend their life shaving their heads, shaving their food, shaving their heart, shaving everything.

 

Because somehow shaving everything is a wonderful expression of existence.

 

Probably existence made a mistake creating the whole world, and now little monkeys called Buddhists have to fix up existence because existence was so dumb.   Nice logic.

 

In Christianity at least you can read the words of Jesus of Nazareth quite clearly in the gospels and if you throw everything else away you have some good quality instructions.

 

But with Buddhism doesn't seem to have any direct quotes just mountains of words, all beginning with a number the Eight this or the Sixty Nine that.

!!!

Don't like to play this card but please be a bit more respectful.

The thing with sutras is that they were written after his death. One of his attendants I think Ananda had perfect memory so from that it came and other students who attained arhatship also gave their testimony. So that is where sutras are from.

We do not imagine we do not exist that would be nihilism and it is a wrong view. And check the news and you will see many great masters like H.H. Chetsang Rinpoche or H.H. Gyalwang Drukpa do a lot of important work.

The gospels are (tbh) at least the same level of reliability as sutras.

[rideforever]

You aren't respectful the Buddha if you join the religion.

His example was to leave religions and go on his own.

Same with Jesus he left Judaism and went on his own.

Truly it is strange and of very low dumbness to say you follow these men by joining a crowd of wise-acring monkeys, who write a million things all attributed to someone.

It's quite obvious in Christinaity that the wars and hatred that have flowed out have zero to do with what Jesus taught.   Likewise the nihilism has flowed out of Buddhism.

You are empty before the path, that is why you take the path to become full.

[Miroku]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

You aren't respectful the Buddha if you join the religion.

His example was to leave religions and go on his own.

Same with Jesus he left Judaism and went on his own.

Truly it is strange and of very low dumbness to say you follow these men by joining a crowd of wise-acring monkeys, who write a million things all attributed to someone.

It's quite obvious in Christinaity that the wars and hatred that have flowed out have zero to do with what Jesus taught.   Likewise the nihilism has flowed out of Buddhism.

You are empty before the path, that is why you take the path to become full.

Meh

[Spotless]

On 7/13/2018 at 1:37 AM, rideforever said:

Did Sidharttha Gautama actually say the Four Noble Truths ?  And the Eight .... whatever it was ?   And the Five .... thingies ?

 

Did he actually say this stuff ?
I can't tell look these things up on vast Wikipedia articles its difficult to tell, these things are in the suttras but who wrote them ?

Buddhism long ago became a religion for people who want to imagine they don't exist so they don't have to get off their arse and can spend their life shaving their heads, shaving their food, shaving their heart, shaving everything.

 

Because somehow shaving everything is a wonderful expression of existence.

 

Probably existence made a mistake creating the whole world, and now little monkeys called Buddhists have to fix up existence because existence was so dumb.   Nice logic.

 

In Christianity at least you can read the words of Jesus of Nazareth quite clearly in the gospels and if you throw everything else away you have some good quality instructions.

 

But with Buddhism doesn't seem to have any direct quotes just mountains of words, all beginning with a number the Eight this or the Sixty Nine that.

!!!

Wanted to save this prior to your edits - look at it in a few years - 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Spotless

[Starjumper]

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

His example was to leave religions and go on his own.

Same with Jesus he left Judaism and went on his own.

 

There's a big difference between religion and spiritual in the Western religions, in the Eastern ones not as much.  There are leaders and there are followers, there are realizers and there are wankers, there are the mystics at one end of the spectrum and the fundamentalists at the other, and every shade in between.  Buddhism has something for everyone.

 

Do you know what the difference is between religion and spiritual?

 

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

Truly it is strange and of very low dumbness to say you follow these men by joining a crowd of wise-acring monkeys.

 

You refer to what is sometimes called armchair Buddhists,  I have a different name for them.  They aren't all like that.

 

but ...

 

What's your problem, little guy?

 

 

[rideforever]

The central tenets of Buddhism do not seem to be what he said, that is a big problem, another problem is that they are wrong.
The good thing about Buddhism is that they do actually shut up and sit in meditation, and as long as those tenets are not rolling around in their head, there is a reasonable chance that something might happen.
But it's all pretty stupid, like most things on this planet.
I have just been learning about the degeneration of the traditions of "A Course In Miracles", 5 years after the book was produced it started to decay with wise-acres arriving to rewrite and delete bits they didn't like.
And then the next generation comes and edits once again, and it decays to the next level and the next.
It didn't take long, people can't help themselves.

If you actually read what Buddha did, and copy him you won't go far wrong.  Likewise with Jesus, he spent most of his life trying to teach disciples that just didn't get it, and outwitting Jewish teachers who were trying to get him killed.   Finally he couldn't bear it much long and walked into his own execution, apparently.
Their own lives are the message.
But people seem (and correct me if I am wrong) to just read the tenets and the rivers of sewage that flow out of the generations of followers all adding their own special crap to the flow.

 

 

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

What's your problem, little guy?

You never hate your brother for his sins, but ONLY for your own.
Thank you for reminding me.

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

You never hate your brother for his sins, but ONLY for your own.
Thank you for reminding me.

Glad I could help.   Maybe hate is too strong, and annoying people can be annoying all right.  I know just how you feel though and I used to have the exact same feeling back when I was raising hell back on the old AOL Buddhist forum.  There I was surrounded by all kinds of idiots, wankers, fundamentalists, you name it, and I used to tease the hell out of them ... so moderators were invented.  There were a couple of people on those earliest of all forums who were wise, but the idiots simply could not hear them.

 

Anyway your question about what Buddha said is a good one, because I never could believe that such an enlightened person could be such a huge blabbermouth, particularly of all the repetitive inane stuff.  Now I can believe it, because I seen one, only what he says is not inane ... so it must be the followers, bless their widdle hearts, that put out all the inane stuff.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Starjumper

[rideforever]

I am interested in these topics, it is part of my study, and watching the light go out in traditions has been important to study.

Buddha managed to awaken Sariputta / Mogallana in 7 and 13 days, which indicates that his teaching included direct state to state energy transmission as well as other guidance

 

Another interesting thing is that awakened teachers often do not know what happened or why, and so default to tradition.  Those who have something interesting to say about "how",are either those who investigate "how" after it happened, and perhaps also those who followed simple paths.  Therefore a being may not teach what works, he may not understand what happened.  But his own journey says a lot.   Many are exhausted by the struggle, trying this and that, pulling and pushing, until it happens ... it is not easy to teach such a mess of a path ... but this approach is common (for instance Eckhart Tolle).  And many teach paths they did not themselves take, which is strange logic.

And worryingly people like Jiddhu Krishnamurti and Nisargadatta Maharaj taught for decades and in the end said nobody really understood.  Mooji has just reached this point and is starting to warn students about it.   Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev also.   These beings are happy to be in an awakened state, but do not have the will or competence to investigate "how" or "what" actually happened.  So instead they try to explain on the cuff, or they default to tradition ... and then it doesn't really work, maybe only for a few who were close.   This is not really a very good state of affairs for mankind for things to be this bad.

Of course I can fall into hatred and frustration, I do not know to what extent this is excusable or appropriate, personally a large part of it is not so I can work on that.

And of course those who come to a being of light, to be nourished by the light, can only understand so much and their understanding degenerates the path, generation by generation.   This is the process by which light is disseminated into this dark world from above.   Like light entering the ocean, the further it goes from the source, the darker it gets, the more mixed with the darkness it becomes, until nothing is left but pitch.   But it also true that meditation is a fine environment within which good things naturally happen.

Edited July 13, 2018 by rideforever
missed out something

[Marblehead]

Somewhere along the line I think he said, "Sit down and shut up."

 

[EmeraldHead]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

If you actually read what Buddha did, and copy him you won't go far wrong.

You know anyone who can all samatha and vippasana jhanas with mastery and build all buddhas kayas?

[Fa Xin]

Edit: Just sitting back and watching. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Mark Foote]

Rideforever,

 

I went through the sermon volumes (except the 5th, which is a later composition), and tried to get a cohesive (short) picture of the teachings, in 1995.  I finally edited what I had, and put it up online a couple of years ago:

http://zenmudra.com/zenmudra-wheel-of-the-sayings.html

 

or, as a PDF:

http://zenmudra.com/Making Sense of the Pali Sutta--the Wheel of the Sayings.pdf

 

I'm not sure Gautama's vision of the natural social order was any great shakes, and the thing I value most in his teaching was his response to the suicide of scores of his monks (Sanyutta Nikaya V Pali Text Society pg 285):  he assembled the monks, and taught "the concentration on in-breathing and out-breathing" as a thing complete in itself (forget about striving for enlightenment), and a pleasant way of living, besides.  More about that here, if you're interested:

http://www.zenmudra.com/zenmudra-shikantaza-Gautama-way-of-living.html

 

There's some of the best information I've found in the sermon volumes, but I agree you have to speed-read a lot to find it.  The Gospel of Thomas is another of my favorites, as is Cheng Man-Ching's "Thirteen Chapters" on Tai Chi.

 

Good luck!

Mark Foote

Edited July 20, 2018 by Mark Foote

[rideforever]

 

On 13/07/2018 at 9:48 PM, Arramu said:

You know anyone who can all samatha and vippasana jhanas with mastery and build all buddhas kayas?

 

Buddha made the 8 jhanas with the 2nd ascetic he studied with.   
But it wasn't what he was looking for, then he left and went walkabout.
Sitting under a tree one day he remembered something from his childhood.

[3bob]

On 7/13/2018 at 10:22 AM, rideforever said:

The central tenets of Buddhism do not seem to be what he said, that is a big problem, another problem is that they are wrong.
The good thing about Buddhism is that they do actually shut up and sit in meditation, and as long as those tenets are not rolling around in their head, there is a reasonable chance that something might happen.
But it's all pretty stupid, like most things on this planet.
I have just been learning about the degeneration of the traditions of "A Course In Miracles", 5 years after the book was produced it started to decay with wise-acres arriving to rewrite and delete bits they didn't like.
And then the next generation comes and edits once again, and it decays to the next level and the next.
It didn't take long, people can't help themselves.

If you actually read what Buddha did, and copy him you won't go far wrong.  Likewise with Jesus, he spent most of his life trying to teach disciples that just didn't get it, and outwitting Jewish teachers who were trying to get him killed.   Finally he couldn't bear it much long and walked into his own execution, apparently.
Their own lives are the message.
But people seem (and correct me if I am wrong) to just read the tenets and the rivers of sewage that flow out of the generations of followers all adding their own special crap to the flow.

 

 

 

so what the hell and what else is new sewage mouth? 

 

[Limahong]

On 7/13/2018 at 4:37 PM, rideforever said:

Sidharttha Gautama actually say the Four Noble Truths ?  And the Eight .... whatever it was ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Limahong]

On 7/14/2018 at 2:50 AM, Marblehead said:

"Sit down and shut up."

 

 

 

Dualistically speaking - "Stand up and close down" :

 

[Limahong]

On 7/13/2018 at 5:50 PM, Miroku said:

Don't like to play this card...

 

[Limahong]

On 7/22/2018 at 8:57 AM, 3bob said:

so what the hell...

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Buddha said to himself sit down and shut up and he did sit down and shut up under a tree.

 

After getting up he said some words we know like bird, tree, suffering we still use these words today 1000 of years latter

 

Unless we are actually there with Buddha when he is talking it would not be in the cards to know for certain the actual order of words spoken.

[Limahong]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:04 AM, rideforever said:

... he remembered something from his childhood.

 

 

[Limahong]

3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

... not be in the cards...

 

 

 

[Limahong]

On 7/22/2018 at 8:57 AM, 3bob said:

... new sewage mouth...