Basic circles of pakua

[SFJane]

But ask Kumar about Jane. Then get back to me. Until then, STFU about it.

 

good lord.

 

if you actually do some how find and follow up on the urge to do that I ask only this

 

that you tell him I said " It worked and it saved my life. I know who I am now. Thank you"

 

I doubt I will ever deliberately cause a situation where I could deliver that message.

[Buddy]

Jane,

I didn't bring you up, Pietro did. I'm happy leaving you out of it. I don't want a dog in that fight. I'll stand or fall on MY merits, as I assume you will as well. That's all.

[Pietro]

Dear Buddy,

you might be under the illusion that I owe you something for having studied with Bruce Kumar Frantzis before me. Please let me dispel that illusion. I don't care a rat's ass. If you say bullshit, if I don't agree with what you say, if I think you are wrong I WILL get you on that. And with my voice too.

 

If this is a problem get on your mat and dissolve, or pay an analyist and whine about how I am not giving you the respect that you deserve.

 

You heard the people protesting for you being nasty and vidious, and making ad hominem respons. Well, I don't give a damn about that too. I take only truth as my guide. I tell you more, I corrected Bruce if when he was saing nonsense. Yes, during lesson. And guess what? He didn't gave a damn. He enquired to know more, and then he remained corrected because I knew more on that particular topic.

 

If you think that the fact that you have studied with Bruce this or that century would stop me from an honest, open, discussion with you here you are under a huge illusion. Huge indeed.

 

Now let's get to business.

 

In Bruce organisation there is no due respect to older students. We don't do Bai Shi. Have you forgotten that? You keep on trying to treat me like this was some sort of confucianist organization. You surely did not learn this from Bruce, so you are trying to sneak in some material you got elswhere. Off you go, on that.

 

NO, I don't care about any -isms.

 

You don't care about any -ism when is yourself behaving, then you expect other people to follow a confucian-ism attitude? Get this contraddiction straight.

 

"I am not interested in MA, and Bruce is not (that) interested in them either."

 

No, Bruce can't DO then any more and they are not as lucrative as teaching slackers lazy shit.

 

Whatever, he doesn't teach it. Deal with it.

 

"It is a game. The time for martial arts has ended. It has ended with the revolt of the boxer. And sometimes you get tired of a game, especially if you are doing a lot of dissolving. Especially (2!) if your body has been ruined to the point that you cannot play it well anymore. Do you want to crucifix him for this."

 

Not at all. But I've known him for a lot longer than you. YOU brought this on him.

I brought this on him? What are you babbling about?

 

I know how and by whom the current situation evolved. I'm trying my hardest to not break his rice bowl.

Look, stop the veiled threats. With me they don't work. If you have something to say do it, if not Shut The Fuck Up (That's what STFU stands for, right?).

 

Look, I'm trying my be to not be a bad guy anymore. But

 

Good luck with that, I can see you'll need a lot of it. But honestly I don't care. Say what you have to say, or shut up. See above.

 

ask Kumar about Jane. Then get back to me. Until then, STFU about it.

 

Why should I enter in the private relation of two other human beings. I was making an example to show how the practices can be very helpful. But I guess the point was made and I don't need to find other examples.

If your not being a bad guy means that you write in a polite way, suggesting me to act in an unethical way, you probably need to go back to grade school... sifu.

 

What if I told you Bruce told someone else something different entirely?

 

Again the veiled threats. Saying and not saying.

Sure Bruce stories are not always the same.

The point is if those differences are cosmetic differences or fundamental.

 

How about the fact that those who knew Liu better say something different?

 

That knew Liu better... interesting.

 

Look, Alan was in Beijing, and has asked about Liu, too. What came out was that Liu was a very well known in Beijing in the 50's and 60's as a Tai Ji person and as a taoist. Ask Alan, he'll give you the references.

 

 

According to Alan: Bruce never said that Liu had no other students, Just that he and his spiritual brother where the only inside the door students.

 

Do you deny that Bruce was formally adopted in Liu's family?

That he got to spread Liu's ashes with Liu's son.

It's hard to have a closer relationship that that.

 

I can get deeper into this whole "revealing" thing, but it won't convince the converted.

 

You can but you won't? See above.

 

Quote a separate source other then Bruce.

...

Quote a separate source other than Bruce.

...

See above.

...

Go to Beijing, ask Zhu Baojen, or the student's that Liu was supposed to not have.

 

Ask Alan the references of people who can testify that Liu was a well known Taoist figure in Beijing.

 

Pietro,

What if you knew one of Bruce's top and most well known students committed a crime, say like when a dentist fucks one of his patients while they are asleep. Or a therapist takes advantage of a patient. Something that could, under normal circumstances send that person to jail. Would you say (even if that person is well respected among your community still) that the training was effective? How about if it was all covered up from the top because it might have been able to be traced that far?

 

Again the veiled threats.

You know, I know quite a lot of the inside stories, and honestly I don't give a fuck.

 

Let me clarify something.

Some years ago there was a mathematician, who after having done some good work for science went to a south east asian countries, used his money to have a big house, and in this house he started raping, and fucking kids. The whole thing eventually exploded. Did this made the theorem he had discovered non vallid? Surely not. Because they stand on their own legs.

 

Does the fact that the vatican has done all sort of nasty things, and covered them up, has any importance on the fact that Jesus was or wasn't the Christ? No, nothing.

 

You see, I find Bruce teaching to be valid in itself. And to be of a taoist origin in itself. How could whatever has Bruce done in the past, influence this?

 

It would be different if the teaching would advocate a behaviour that I would abhor. You know, the 4 taboo that taoist have regarding sex. Well, if inside the organization people after doing the practices would start to have a huge urge to do any of those, then I would worry. But do not confuse the fundamental-pragmatic value of a particular practice or teaching with

a.) the modern, western ethics;

b.) the history of a person;

and of course

c.) the politics necessary to keep an organisation alive. And Taoists were masters in this.

 

Please don't presume to ever preach to me boy. I walk my talk always.

 

You think you have nothing to learn from me.

 

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

indeed!

 

EDITED TO PUT COLORS AS QUOTES DO NOT WORK WITH BUDDY (don't ask me why)

 

good lord.

 

if you actually do some how find and follow up on the urge to do that I ask only this

 

that you tell him I said " It worked and it saved my life. I know who I am now. Thank you"

 

I doubt I will ever deliberately cause a situation where I could deliver that message.

Enter in the relation between you and Bruce? Why would I?

But if you do ask me to deliver a message I will very surely do.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Pietro

[Buddy]

And I'm happy to leave you to your delusions. So piss up a rope.

 

"In Bruce organisation there is no due respect to older students. We don't do Bai Shi. Have you forgotten that?"

 

"The teachers in the this directory have successfully completed at least one instructor training in the Taoist arts given by Energy Arts, Inc. and received a certification. They are all independent instructors who operate their own businesses and are neither affiliated with nor endorsed by Energy Arts, Inc."

 

 

Kind of make one wonder what 'certification' means.

Edited February 10, 2008 by Buddy