What exactly is ‘turning the light around’, in daoist meditation?

[Limahong]

On 7/17/2018 at 7:36 PM, joeblast said:

... pin a flowery language tail on that donkey...

 

... and make monkeys out of us.

 

[Limahong]

On 7/17/2018 at 9:45 PM, Bindi said:

... MCO opens naturally at a certain stage...

 

... and the chakras flower naturally at various stages?

[Limahong]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:03 AM, Phoenix3 said:

... then I’ll know i know it.

 

Whenever my bosses squeeze me for answers, this is how I may/will reply after trying my utmost ~ politely and gently:

 

I know what I know - this is what I have found.

I don't know - I will find out more.

But sometimes - I really don't know what I don't know.

So COLLECTIVELY - can you all please help me with what I know or don't know. 

 

The above is not a joke.

 

I retorted thus just before one of the Olympics and we were temporally tight. Then I was working in Singapore and finally a solution was found in Switzerland.

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Light, is it even light that’s talked about? Having vision isn’t having A vision, wether the eyes are closed or open. Around from where?

I’m thinking the light is Yi. Qi goes where Yi goes, put Yi in your belly and see what happens.

 

The funny thing about some of this stuff is that the techniques are very specific and the descriptions are poetry on how to use it or what it does.

Relaxation, intent, energy (both as fuel and as time put in), patience and practice with an open state of mind. There is so much to be found along the way i think, thousands of little tricks and knicknacks that are revealed.

But there is the need to mix...

Mix activity and rest, cultivation and harvesting, open eyes, closed eyes, sleep and wakefullness. Some of them dont mix simultaneously but cumulatively maybe?

 

We spend a lot of time with our eyes closed, literally.

Rest is one such thing. My head is spinning from thinking about this light and where it should be turned to and from. What does it even turn ON as a pivot?

Is it a lighthouse?

 

I’ve had too much rum.

bye now.

[Marblehead]

23 minutes ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

I’ve had too much rum.

bye now.

Hehehe.  No more light after you pass out.

 

[Bindi]

4 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

... and the chakras flower naturally at various stages?

 

I would say there are multiple layers of 'flowering' that occur at specific stages, it depends what system you follow. As part of the dantian system which makes sense to me, what happens in what order is vital, ideally there is a naturally ordained order in which they will unfold. 

[gj551]

i thought 'turning the light around' was just a another expression for doing the MCO.. 

[Cheshire Cat]

There are specific signs associated with a correct practice. We should use them as an indication of what turning the light might be. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Both the Golden Flower and the Golden pill (elixir) are simply symbols for true consciousness, which refers to the awareness of the Higher Self or Original Spirit. This consciousness is veiled by the discriminating or illusionary consciousness of the lower self. Making the lower self passive is done through internal action.

 

The Tao has no name or form; it is just the essence, just the original spirit.  Essence and life cannot be seen. They are contained in the light of heaven. The light of heaven cannot be seen.

 

What is the color of light? we call it gold. light is awareness Turn the light around. When we turn the light around and become aware of something that needs to be done allow the spirit to move you and then go back to practice.

 

When we turn the light around internal we become aware. Meditating on emptiness is like denial when we become aware act on it and go back to practice. Then there comes a time when all things are done life is in order and the mood is right for picking the medicine. we can not get the medicine unless we cultivate the mood, the mindscape, the body is comfortable all things have no urgency nothing is left to do even for a moment. The time is ripe and the flower burst open. we can not force a flower to bloom but the conditions must be right.

[dawei]

~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~

 

Lima... you tend to unload a lot of meme pictures and it has generated too many reports that cause staff time to have to look at so many.    I have hidden them here to keep the thread on topic. 

 

Please discern when a pic or two in an appropriate thread makes sense.. not all threads are they appropriate.

 

If you are unable to discern it, staff will simply just take action on the post and posting status.

 

Everyone likes some light humor but it begins to feel like spam at some point.

 

 

[lifeforce]

Not from a Daoist source, but the words of Dogen.

"put aside the intellectual practice of investigating words and chasing phrases, and learn to take the backward step that turns the light and shines it inward. Your body and mind will drop away of themselves, and your original face will manifest. If you want to get into touch with things as they are, you – right here and now – have to start being yourself, as you are".

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

When the body is full of it within, light will manifest without. These white and golden lights are like the positive and negative ends of an electric wire; and the union of generative force, vitality and spirit is like the current without which there is no light. In the same way if the two lights have not mingled within there will be no illumination without.

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

 

So - physics have proven that light has a "hidden momentum" that is from relativistic mass - meaning Emptiness or spacetime curvature. So when spacetime shifts there is a change in the light frequency, due to the wavelength of spacetime shifting. But quantum energy is based on frequency directly. Louis de Broglie realized that there is a limit to relativity - a paradox - that he solved - called the Law of Phase Harmony.

So the yin qi has red light - and the yang qi has blue light. When the Yuan Qi is activated as the Yuan Shen - at first it is yellow-white light - this is called the Full Moon in the Sun - when the yin qi is fully restored. As the yang qi builds up - then it creates red light from the lower frequency energy (the jing) - so that is the Sun within the Moon - the "light of vitality" or yang qi.

So then you get ambrosia - which is swallowed - to return the qi and shen back to the lower tan t'ien.

As the energy builds up - this ambrosia turns into the golden Nectar - as it has more yang qi within it.

It still combines with the yin qi of the five organs. As you deepen the practice the yin qi is converted into more yuan qi, via building up the yang qi. The Yuan Qi is the "light of no light" as the hidden pressure or momentum within the Shen light - so it is also the Yuan Shen manifesting - the Spirit of No Spirit.

So this is why the yin qi light (white) and yang qi light (golden) then create the yuan qi  as the hidden momentum of light from the light being turned around - into the opposites of frequency and wavelength.

[Small Fur]

On July 16, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Phoenix3 said:

I’ve read a few books which mention this, and ‘turning the light around’ seems to be a fancy way of saying to meditate on emptiness with the eyes closed.

 

Am I correct?

 

Also, once one’s eyes are opened, does the ‘turning the light around’ suddenly cease?

 

 

The process of ‘turning the light’ is a reference to the methods of how we engage our awareness in consciousness. The application of such begins in how we apply our mundane awareness and eventually leads to how we become connected to our original consciousness (yuan shen). This in turn affects our literal visual perception of the world through the light of consciousness in the body.  

 

Thus, consciousness- which is perceived in the human as various qualities of light, changes as our state of awareness evolves.

 

I do not provide methods here or talk about the details because until you come to each stage of awareness inside yourself, the conceptual knowledge of it can itself become an obscuration, in part because it becomes an object of desire; objectification and desire are obstacles to spiritual development. The specifics of what occur at later stages are not as important as your commitment in willingness to look inward and the development of capacity to witness profoundly (aka laying the foundation for the light to continuously emerge and turn). Encountering psychic phenomena, even seeing lights, etc., these are are in many ways just symptoms of various mundane experiences through the vessel and is itself not what is essential even when they are conditions of heightened psychic and spiritual phenomena. If you are sincere and commit each moment to living truthfully, then the purity of that engaged intent will naturally lead you the right teachers, the right experiences, and the place of integrity in yourself to actually know what it is to turn the light and become the expression of such virtue.

 

So to answer your second question, once your conscious awareness deepens inside the system, opening the eyes does not prevent one from being conscious as it does for most people. Once your consciousness is substantively rooted in the pivot of the ‘turn’ and passes through it, the visual field is permanently altered and one becomes consciousness. One becomes light.

 

(Oh.. .and to answer your question from a different post on “what is there to do after meditating on emptiness”- the answer is: begin to turn the light.

 

[rideforever]

The instructions in this book are quite dumb and miserable like most on this planet.   Most of the book is just empty words, talking very generally and sort of poetically an mystically about breath heart soul higher soul eyes belly sages mountains.   FFS what is wrong with people on this planet.

 

Here is a good instructions : sit down.    Then it will not be misunderstood.    I can only imagine that if 100 people read this book they will all practice completely differently.

 

What are the ACTUAL instructions ?   

Unclear instructions come from unclear people.   

 

"Lower the eyelids and establish a point of reference" .... means what ?   Point of reference on my ass ?   Why do I need to lower my eyelids ?

 

"This methods makes use of two lights .... eyes .... ears ... . sun ... moon" ....FFS.

 

"A dung bettle rolls a pill of dung, from which life emerges, by the pure effort of concentration of spirit" .... er .... I thought we were merging with the breath here, or was that the Sun and Moon and what happened to the eyes ?

 

"A hundred and thirty-seven years old!"

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by rideforever

[rideforever]

Maybe some people would like to form an experimental group to try and work out what this golden flower is about.

 

In my opinion, apart from merging with the breath, the technique specifically mentions the eyes and the practice should be something like this :

1) push out with the eye energy into the world (to sort of set you up) ... light flows out

2) tilt head back and reverse-the-flow-of-the light, gently sucking the light in so that it

3) gently direct the light into the area of the mid-eyebrown point and behind, try to fill it up like an internal region of energy that is alive until you have like a "cave" there of energy

4) merge with that region of energy until identity is felt there

5) - merging with the breath has to be co-ordinated with this show before or after or during.

 

This practice corresponds to what is written in Chapter 1 with the following notes;
a. the author speculates on the correct location drawing from a previous treatise (Book of the Yellow Castle) .... however I believe the location to be the mid-eyebrow point rather than between the eyes, is better.

b. the author also describes collecting thoughts together .... by which I take to mean .... notice that your thoughts arise in your forehead and collect them together at the point - presumably after you turn the light around and pull in the "visual energy" into the area

c. the author indicates that this region becomes a new spiritual body / identity, the real heaven, and brings to discipline all the undisciplined parts of you

d. I suggest that if you are able to feel the light flow "reversing" and aim it to the eyebrow centre, then after some time you will feel a presence there like a region of energy, then try to merge with it (use a little imagination eh) until you wake up there, it's like your identity open up there, or if you prefer like a new eye opens there, but's it's an awakened identity.

 

- not sure about the breathing business that comes later - author says this practice is sufficient to fix everything, but the breathing - tantien practice relates it to the rest of Taoist practice

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by rideforever

[voidisyinyang]

pointed concentration means the left and right eye have to rotate so that the yin qi and yang qi combine - thereby the yang shen and yin shen. You should feel the pineal gland activating the lower tan t'ien. Then you bring the qi and shen down to the lower tan t'ien - to transform the jing into qi.

Only Quick Fire breathing has the power to sublimate the jing or water above the fire. So just relying on bring the Shen or positive fire down will not be real alchemy - unless your jing is full and the heart pure.

[rideforever]

18 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

pointed concentration means the left and right eye have to rotate so that the yin qi and yang qi combine - thereby the yang shen and yin shen. You should feel the pineal gland activating the lower tan t'ien. Then you bring the qi and shen down to the lower tan t'ien - to transform the jing into qi.

Only Quick Fire breathing has the power to sublimate the jing or water above the fire. So just relying on bring the Shen or positive fire down will not be real alchemy - unless your jing is full and the heart pure.

 

You seem to be referring to a different practice.   Is any of this stuff in the GF ?   Quick fire breathing isn't, is it ?   Rotating the eyes, that's not in there either - sounds painful.   Have no idea what you are doing when you say yinqi yangqi combine.   Pineal gland hmmm sounds new age,    In fact the Pineal is in the centre of the brain, and the GF mentions a region between the eyes, and doesn't it mention the eybrow centre ?   Anyway doesn't appear to be the Pineal does it.   Different loctaon.   
Maybe you have your own practice and are trying to translate GF into that even if it doesn't fit ????

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

You seem to be referring to a different practice.   Is any of this stuff in the GF ?   Quick fire breathing isn't, is it ?   Rotating the eyes, that's not in there either - sounds painful.   Have no idea what you are doing when you say yinqi yangqi combine.   Pineal gland hmmm sounds new age,    In fact the Pineal is in the centre of the brain, and the GF mentions a region between the eyes, and doesn't it mention the eybrow centre ?   Anyway doesn't appear to be the Pineal does it.   Different loctaon.   
Maybe you have your own practice and are trying to translate GF into that even if it doesn't fit ????

 

The book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality discusses the Golden Flower details. Daoist Alchemy books are not written in a vacuum. They are related to each other. If you limit yourself to one book and refuse to consider other books, then yes you might be confused.

[rideforever]

21 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

They are related to each other. If you limit yourself to one book and refuse to consider other books, then yes you might be confused.

 

The Golden Flower includes in it all the source it is using, it mentions those books, so there is no confusion.
It also includes quite specific type of instruction thereby reducing confusion again.
It is also an instructional text designed to teach students what to do on its own with no need for other heresay.

Most of what you say you are doing does not seem to be linked to the text.

My interpretation above is extracted directly from the text.

 

Perhaps some other blokes told you to do ... the things you are doing.   But if you read the text it is clear that what you are doing is not the same.   Perhaps you do not have the time to read the text itself ?

Edited August 13, 2018 by rideforever

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

The Golden Flower includes in it all the source it is using, it mentions those books, so there is no confusion.
It also includes quite specific type of instruction thereby reducing confusion again.
It is also an instructional text designed to teach students what to do on its own with no need for other heresay.

Most of what you say you are doing does not seem to be linked to the text.

My interpretation above is extracted directly from the text.

 

Perhaps some other blokes told you to do ... the things you are doing.   But if you read the text it is clear that what you are doing is not the same.   Perhaps you do not have the time to read the text itself ?

It appears there has been great confusion about the Golden Flower text for a long time.

The Golden Flower stage is actually advanced training - requiring long fasting and deep meditation. Preferably cave meditation.

But we can count on Western translations to goof it up. haha.

 

Quote

The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tài Yǐ Jīn Huá Zōng Zhǐ) is a Ch'an Buddhism and 'neitan' {inner elixir} Taoist manual for use at the later stages of the spiritual path.

https://allaboutheaven.org/sources/1001/190/the-secret-of-the-golden-flower

Edited August 13, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[rideforever]

8 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

Always there are priests and complicated people who know better.

 

But the author of the Golden Flower makes simple instructions directed to students.   The author says it is simple and complete.

 

But ... why would you take something simple when you can be in charge ?

 

The simple truth is that your ideas are completely different from what is in the text.

[voidisyinyang]

Just now, rideforever said:

 

Always there are priests and complicated people who know better.

 

But the author of the Golden Flower makes simple instructions directed to students.   The author says it is simple and complete.

 

But ... why would you take something simple when you can be in charge ?

 

The simple truth is that your ideas are completely different from what is in the text.

well it's not exactly "ideas" but rather training instructions.

So first the Yuan Shen is activated via the Yuan Qi by restoring the yin qi. The light of the yin qi restored is white-yellow light that is seen externally as the Absolute Void but the Yuan Shen is the "light of no light" from the Yuan Qi having the Yuan jing restored through purification. Most people never reach this stage.

Then after that ONLY the Yuan Shen, by "turning the light around" unites the yin qi and yang qi to increase the Yuan Qi which then increases the light - and is stored via the yang qi.

So at first the yang qi is swallowed as white ambrosia - it overflows out of the sinus cavity as cerebrospinal fluid that is "cleansed" by the pineal gland.

So as the yuan qi increases - the skull gets soft - and body fills with qi - so you enter immortal breathing first - which means the Yin Qi is taken in from the Earth - and it rotates with the Yuan Qi. And so then the yin qi of the organs are turned into yuan qi.

So then the Ambrosia turns into the Golden Nectar or Golden Elixir - with the yang qi increased - and so the Golden Light is the byproduct of the increased Yuan Qi created from the increased Yang Qi.

You can read all this in the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortal training text.

 

[voidisyinyang]

On 8/3/2018 at 6:40 PM, Phoenix3 said:

 

Hi awaken,

 

Could you please describe the light you see in your vision? (Perhaps it is spiritual, perhaps it is just cataracts? It’ll be interesting to hear a bit more about it). Would you say it is like a circle of light in your vision, or is it like your entire field of vision gets brighter?

 

thank you

Her "personal practice diary" has the details

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

In the original creation there is yang light, which is the determining factor. In the material world it is the sun;

 

So science has proven that the source of the Sun is actually quantum "negentropy" from quantum entanglement. It means it's actually from reverse time virtual photons, called superluminal "yin matter" as the Golden Key in Daoist alchemy (Zhong Gong).

 

So yang light means radiation that turns into matter by storing up energy from the future - this is also what powers the sun as fusion energy. Negentropy is also what powers life, as Schroedinger proposed in 1930, his book "What is Life?" and as has now been proven by quantum biology in the last few years of Western science.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

The two founders of Buddhism and Taoism have taught that one should look at the tip of one's nose. But they did not mean that one should concentrate on the tip of the nose. Neither did they mean that while one`s eyes are looking at the tip of the nose, one`s thoughts should be concentrated on the middle yellow court.

What this really means is that each eye is solar and lunar and also yin qi and yang qi - and so only when the energies of the eyes 'cross" is the energy of light returned back to its source via the third eye, via the heart and then the lower tan t'ien.