Dealing with the duo

[mgd]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by mgd

[freeform]

What I'm hoping for is a concise do's and don'ts regarding the duo.

 

Don't mix kundalini with kunlun.

 

[mgd]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by mgd

[Yoda]

I am of the opinion that one has to choose between Kunlun and kundalini/MCO type practices. Can't do both. But you can do stillness meditation and standing with Kunlun very safely and other practices like mantras can be done during the same 24 hour period, but just at different times of the day.

[Buddy]

What will happen if you do both?

[freeform]

What will happen if you do both?

 

what would happen if you trained taichi at the same time as competitive 100m sprinting?

[Buddy]

What would happen if a question were answered with a question?

They would not be incompatible.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Buddy

[freeform]

oh Buddy...

 

are you really, actually pretending to not understand what I meant?

 

It's sweet I guess...

 

See I dont know what exactly would happen - a lot of subjectivity, many variables etc. but you get the general idea that power sprinting and Tai chi wouldn't gel well...

 

I havent done any kundalini myself, but know people that have, and the whole approach is in opposition to the kunlun approach...

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

I am of the opinion that one has to choose between Kunlun and kundalini/MCO type practices. Can't do both. But you can do stillness meditation and standing with Kunlun very safely and other practices like mantras can be done during the same 24 hour period, but just at different times of the day.

 

Hi Yoda

Have you seen this post?

http://www.thetaobums.com/Kunlun-Rediscovered-t4616.html

 

Here is the main content:

"Vibrating your body means to hold your body in a position of tension that sets up involuntary physical vibrations in the body. This will increase energy flow and release blocks. These exercises are well known in core and bioenergetic therapy.

Stand with your feet parallel and shoulder width apart. After you complete the aura charging exercises given above, stand and again simply breathe out when you go down and in when you go up. Bend your knees as much as you can; let your legs begin to feel tired. If you keep doing this long enough, your legs will begin to physically vibrate in an involuntary way. If they do not, start a vibration by quickly bouncing up and down on your heels. Allow the vibrations to work up into the upper part of your legs and your pelvis. With practice, these vibrations will spread over your whole body. This is a very good way to create a strong energy flow throughout your body. Once you get the feel of it, you can devise exercises to cause any part of your body to vibrate in order to increase the energy flow through that part. In this case, one usually needs the pelvis to vibrate in order to enhance the earthly energies flowing through the first and second chakras. Later, when you are in a healing situation, you can slowly roll your pelvis back and forth (while in a sitting position), then add a little short, fast vibration to the rolling motion. This should help the pelvis vibrate. You will feel the increased energy flow throughout your whole body. "

From "Hands Of Light" - Barbara Ann Brennan

 

In my analysis of kunlun and Pillars of Bliss, the technique starts with a chi or cosmic energy gathering session, then you practice bioenergetic therapy which increases energy flow and releases blocks, and then you close by storing the extra chi to your tan tien. There are no warnings of harmful effects in "Hands Of Light". There are actually many books I've read that claim that a good way to clear yourself is through shaking, violent movements, screaming, panting etc. I don't see how increasing your energy flow is detrimental to someone with their kundalini active other than, if your kundalini is already flowing, you don't really need to increase your energy flow. But what do I know? However, it would seem that the question is this: Can you mix chi and kundalini energy? Chi is supposed to be very stupid energy, or energy that needs to be directed. Kundalini energy is very intelligent and can't be directed.

 

I've posted a question to Drew Hempel about growing a third harmonic which might produce energy sickness as Pillars of Bliss claims, but he hasn't responded yet.

 

TI

[Buddy]

"oh Buddy..."

 

oh guy with some moniker

 

"are you really, actually pretending to not understand what I meant?

 

It's sweet I guess..."

 

I'm happy it was good for you, son. I never pretend to not understand. You were being oblique.

 

"See I dont know what exactly would happen - a lot of subjectivity, many variables etc."

 

Than why did you even bring it up? Why would you expect me to know WTF you're talking about when you don't?

 

 

"but you get the general idea that power sprinting and Tai chi wouldn't gel well..."

 

No I don't. I don't think they are incompatible at all. Do you know anything about either?

 

"I havent done any kundalini myself, but know people that have, and the whole approach is in opposition to the kunlun approach..."

 

So you don't know anything about Kundalini Yoga but you'll still offer some pointless comment? I did study Kundalini Yoga with Gurucharen Singh Kalsa many years ago. SO, try to stay on track.

 

Why is there a problem with doing both?

[rene]

... the general idea that power sprinting and Tai chi wouldn't gel well...

 

They dont gel if you try and do them both at the same time.

 

Other than that, Taiji brings a benefit to motion that shows up all the time.

[mgd]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by mgd

[mgd]

I found the following information regarding grounding techniques in the forum topic entitled:

 

Help with Negative Effects of Meditation

 

Thank you freeform for posting it.

 

 

 

"Excess energy in an undeveloped head centre can cause serious, permanent damage - stop pushing energy in, and stop anything that involves imagining light, or any visualization, especially anything to do with the head.

 

For grounding you need to first learn how to relax your body completely - sounds simple but there are always small tensions that come up when you pay attention. For this you need to learn thorough abdominal breathing (and softening the tummy) - there is a fantastic book called "unwinding the belly" - teaches you both of these.

 

You should activate the bottom half of your body - doing simple excersises like well structured squats will get quick results. Also pay more attention to your feet - foot massages, shoes with a very thin sole, walking barefoot on rocks or at least just round your house. also ankle rotations are very good.

 

When you've done the above daily for a few months, you can add some simple dan tien meditation - which involves sitting upright in a chair (not using the back), your feet firmly planted on the floor, your hands covering your lower belly, taking long relaxed belly breaths that you learnt from 'unwinding the belly'.

 

After you've done this for several months and can physically feel (not visualize!) a connection to the ground/earth (you may be able to feel a very slow dense buzz going between your belly and the ground under your feet) - then you might consider learning standing meditation...

 

this is quite important for you! you may notice that you get some genius ideas or thoughts that stop you doing any of this - this is just the mind sabotaging you, notice when this happens give yourself a knowing smug smile that you caught it in its tracks."

Edited February 2, 2008 by mgd

[minkus]

What will happen if you do both?

 

I will put it very dry.

 

If you combine kunlun and another energybuilding practice the 2 will start to react more then to interact with eachother. I can easily believe this can lead to energetic disharmony if you persist doing so as it is clearly obvious from the beginning. Disharmony in a body's energysystem is commonly believed to be the cause of many physical illnesses.

 

Mixing 2 practices with each having a distinct strong flavor will lead to some strange events wich i discourage to try out. For myself this resulted in very strong unwanted emotions and a change in auditory and visual perception, also not the ones you aimed for .. mainly oversensitivity.

 

In short, its not fun and you better stick to 1 practice at a time and then still ground yourself toroughly.

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[Yoda]

I'd say it's kundalini that is the tricky thing to deal with regardless of the particular practice mix. Gopi Krishna is the classic case study of the madness and symptoms that can come up if the kundalini chain reaction gets out of control.

 

Any time you are doing kundalini exercises like ayp's spinal breathing, you have to be mindful of the problems that can arise and to back off the second anything does. advancedyogapractices.com is a great resource for anyone interested in grounding techniques and self pacing. AYP says to go slow and practice grounding techniques

 

Here's a list:

 

Back off or quit practicing, take walks, showers, hold a black rock, spend time outside, get some sunlight, have sex, massage your feet, do squats, jump, take a run, hug a tree, incorporate the principles of periodization into your training, back off/quit particular herbs or supplements, staring at a candle flame, praying for grounding, praying to the earth, "looking" into the center of the earth, adjusting the Vaastu/fengsui of your home, cleaning your home, carrying a black stone in your pocket, singing, dancing, eating meat, cooked tomatos or other heavy foods, eating more often and in greater quantities and reduce raw foods, make an angry post on taobums, shooting anger out of your eyes like in the 8 brocades, take some magnesium or minerals or clay etc... *anything* that makes you feel better... go by feel, not by any prescription. Reread alchemicaltaoism.com

 

I know that Kundalini activity is tricky and that Kunlun sets up an type of energy flow that I'm not accustomed to from my past experience... so you won't see me doing spinal breathing anymore, for instance, but I'm not going to research exactly what gets messed up by trying it. I'll just take Max's word for it. If somebody is happy with their Kundalini practice, there's no need for Kunlun and vice versa, so no big deal.

[Buddy]

"so when I said 'it's sweet I guess' I was talking about the little 2/3 year old Buddy after having been chastized for crapping in the wrong place taking on this anal/territorial mask... sweet, but also sad in a way..."

 

Please save your condescending pseudo psychology for chatting up chicks at the bar. All you needed ever do was address the question as asked. But you're a little too above that, it would seem. Typical, "but also sad in a way."

 

Yoda,

Since you seem to have experience in both traditions, thank you for your comments.

[mgd]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by mgd

[freeform]

Would Kunlun have a balancing effect if I experience Kundalini activations while practicing, or should I stop practice until all activity subsides?

 

Aah! so you're doing kunlun, but experiencing kundalini-like effects?? The contraindication is doing a kundalini practice along with kunlun practice. So dont mix practices.

 

I know they say kunlun is a downwards flow, but I find that it's more of an 'inwards' flow - you'll get both rising heat and descending coolness - sometimes things get intense and sometimes very calm. kunlun's a practice of 'letting go' - that means letting go of thought, judgement, logic etc and just becoming intensly curious about what's happening inside - paying very close attention to the kinesthetic sense. and that's about it.

 

or are you practicing kundalini and thinking that kunlun would balance things out? Well - it may well balance things out, but in nature a devastating earthquake is a way of balancing out the pressure within the earth's crust... so just be carefull - if you want to have a go at kunlun, it's probably a good idea to stop all kundalini practice - do the grounding work recomended and then give it a go...

 

either way let us know how it goes, Gloria

[gendao]

Anyone know if there is perhaps a common etymological origin between kunlun & kundalini?

[Buddy]

Hmmm. Kunlun is a mountain range. Kunda is the root of kundalini. Kunda means curl or coil. I don't know if there is a etymological similarity.

[gendao]

Edited February 2, 2008 by vortex

[mgd]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by mgd

[voidisyinyang]

Umm -- didn't see the "third harmonic" question but I posted the below this morning on another blog and it seems to fit several recent threads here so bombs away:

 

I should clarify that by "associative reasoning" Gurdjieff meant "Kundabuffer" which is a central term in his unreadable opus: "All and Everything: Tales of Beelzebub" or whatever. Gurdjieff states that there was a cosmic accident caused by comets (water-covered amino acids) which created the moon and also Kundabuffer aka kundalini. Kundalini is just the sublimated sex energy manifesting as visions and vanity -- delusions of grandeur and even real power of transformation.

 

In contrast to Kundabuffer is again "objective reasoning" which has no cause and requires no effort. The best logical presentation of objective reasoning is "Be that which you are." or similar title -- it's by David Godman on Sri Ramana Maharshi.

 

When, as Gurdjieff taught, we focus on the I-thought there is no object in this philosophy -- as Dan Zahavi describes, the I-thought is the only thought for humans which is "self-transcending." At first we hold onto the I-thought, repeating I-I-I over and over to see the logical source of all our thoughts. Eventually we logically infer that we retain consciousness even in deep sleep and consciousness is therefore objective -- not based on either associative reasoning (sex energy) nor formal reasoning (civilization).

 

The process whereby the I-thought becomes objective is when it creates will-power which is actually the kidney energy and created through complementary opposite harmonics. So this is why full-lotus is so effective in sublimated and transforming the kundabuffer -- the source of delusion in humans -- so that kundalini can return to it's source as objective consciousness.

 

Gurdjieff takes that psychological and physiological process and relates it to cosmology. He states that as civilization "progresses" humans are increasingly controlled by the Kundabuffer -- and therefore the humans are increasingly machines. Freemasonry calls this the "separation of heaven (mind) and earth (body)" through mass ritual sacrifice, as detailed in my blogbook, "when the mothership lands."

 

The negative energy of the kundalini -- electrochemical, yin energy, and the positive energy of the electromagnetic energy -- the source of our thoughts - is resolved by the neutral energy as objective consciousness or what the Buddhists called "essential nature" as the root of the heart. It's therefore experienced and discovered through a great feeling of love and bliss which is then transmitted through the I-thought now transformed by the yang electromagnetic-light energy. This is why modern studies on OBEs, and say Susan Blackmore's much tauted book on the subject, are all bunk -- a true full-lotus yoga master is a rare find in the West. In contrast qigong master Chunyi Lin just had a chapter published in a Mayo Clinic medical textbook on paranormal healing energy through OBEs -- so to speak -- coauthored by Mayo Clinic oncologist Dr. Nina Mishek. I think qigong master Chunyi Lin is also doing a new N.I.H. study on pain relief through chi energy transmission.

 

http://springforestqigong.com for further details

[freeform]

mgd

 

thanks, I now have a fuller picture of where you are.

 

The "Help with Negative Effects of Meditation" topic was started by an inexperienced person doing very forcefull head based practices he kind of made up on the go - which is pretty much the worst combo you can get - that's why all the warnings came up.

 

You're not in the same position at all.

 

What specifically are the negative effects that you get?

 

Because any effective practice has you deal with 'negativity'. It can come in the form of feeling overwhelming emotion, repressed trauma, difficult memories etc. This is all stuff that needs to be processed and integrated... It often seems insurmountable and rather scary to deal with. But untill you properly deal with all that stuff, it's going to be there stuck in your body, mind and energetic system, subtly controling your life...

 

Ofcourse grounding really helps with this. Having a body with enough 'space' to accomodate for whatever internal storms may come is what is extremely valuable - that book called "Unwinding The Belly" really does open up space and gets any stagnation moving. developing a connection with the ground/earth also opens up a huge amount of space beneath you which you can also use - this is where the leg/foot work comes in.

 

However we still dont know exactly what your negative experiences with this energy are...

 

I'm no authority on these matters I just have my personal experiences and intuitions. It's probably a good idea to get in contact with Max and see what he suggests...

 

Serious grounding is always a good idea, appart from helping to integrate/discharge powerfull, hot energies, it also opens up 'body wisdom' - which is where intuition, the ability to make good decisions, the ability to deeply relate with people and the world around you all come from.

 

anyway - remember - we're here to help!