Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light

[Cheshire Cat]

This thread is about an almost always forgotten chapter in the famous book "The Secret of The Golden Flower": chapter 6, titled Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light.

After talking about the philosophy, the method and the common errors, the author(s) dedicate an entire chapter to the description of specific spiritual events that accompanies the practice and -most importantly- confirm the effectiveness of what has been done.

 

Why is that important?

In my opinion, there are essentially two reasons that gives to this chapter a tremendous value.

The first one is that the spiritual experience tends by nature to be subjective and  it varies from an individual to another in most schools of practice, therefore when certain milestones are given in a method, it means that they are (or they tend to be) objective measure of spiritual progress to a large extent.

The second reason is that, when it comes to the actual method of "turning the light around", this specific book is interpreted in a variety of ways by different people who often rely on it to complement or explain a method that they already know from different sources. About this matter, it is sufficient to mention the Dan-Tien cultivation approach, the Ch'an sitting approach, the third eye meditation approach and the MCO approach which complement or explain the practice (even in the texts itself, given that there are at least 3 different versions of it available in translation, and maybe more in original language).

 

Nonetheless, this chapter  Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light is generally consistent in different versions and it is -at this point- evident that it could be effectively used to determine  the true original method of Turning the Light around among the various interpretations given to the text.

 

I will refer, copy and paste from this beautiful website The Secret of The Golden Flower to extract the relevant parts present in all of the available versions of the text and I will ignore the parts which are embedded with philosophies and that are open to interpretations.

 

Quote

Now there are three signs of verification that can be tested.

 

The first is that, when one has entered the state of meditation, it is like one`s spirit is in a valley. When one hears someone else talking, it is as if one hears it from about half a kilometer away, yet clearly. It sounds like an echo in a valley. One definitely hears it and yet it is not oneself that hears it. This is the state of the spirit in the valley. One can verify this at any time.

 

Quote

At times the following can be experienced: in the state of quietness, one`s vision becomes hazy, because of too much brightness. It`s like opening one’s eyes while being in a cloud and one doesn`t see one`s body any more. This is called: the empty chamber produces white (light). Inside and outside, are permeated with light. This is a very favorable sign.

 

Quote

The third experience is when in the state of quietness, the energy of the physical body becomes soft and pure like silk or jade. It feels as though one is floating upward and cannot stay sitting. This is the spirit returning to heaven above. Eventually, after a long time, one is able to ascend there. 

 

Now, can you talk a little bit about your experiences with those things while practicing the Golden Flower Method? And how do you actually cultivate the golden flower?

Edited July 22, 2018 by Cheshire Cat

[rideforever]

Between the eyebrows.
If you are calm, meditative, rest there, ... what is there ?
 

When people talk of the heart in their chest (the heart centre), they might say they "feel their heart".   The feel some warm feelings there, but there is something more ... they feel themselves.   They feel identity.   Do you see ?   They feel firstly an object - the feeling of the heart, but there is something extra there, they feel the subject identity.
That is at the heart.

 

And at the eyebrow centre ... how is it ?   Is it similar, with a different flavour of feelings, but in principle the same ?

[joeblast]

On 7/22/2018 at 7:32 AM, Cheshire Cat said:

Now, can you talk a little bit about your experiences with those things while practicing the Golden Flower Method? And how do you actually cultivate the golden flower?

Taking the turning far towards its logical conclusions, it has taught me that it is a method of resolving energy-remainder-loops.  When the entirety of the neural systems are ostensibly operating in a full Yin mode, there is no sensate experience related to the body whatsoever.  After I was able to stabilize the light....able to reabsorb any potential that might manifest itself in a yang state...then there was no sensate input to even consider.  "Sight" was paradoxically 360 degree view of dimensionless space - that one is a bit difficult to describe, as if there was simply no direction to be observed - all directions and no direction, at the same time.  A sort of infinite-consciousness-space where no time or space existed as part of what was being observed.  I found it curious that I remembered clearly, yet "there was no yang from the hippocampus to form the memory." 

 

But I never finished Cleary's book, any of the times I bought it, each time I found someone who needed it more than I did.  I just read enough to grok turning the light around, and holstered it into my meditative batman-belt. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

In my experience the golden flower is not a method and can not be practiced.

 

When I experienced the verification I did not intentional sit down to meditate. I was out side and simply sat down in a nice spot I entered a meditative state at first I did hear talking and chanting it was like hearing monks on the mountain thousands of miles away reciting scripture (that was my own mind thoughts). Yes internally there was light and outside was hazy.

 

I also felt like I had no earth power like a weakness this was ascending upward. This state of being was experienced for over a week and during going to work and play. I had special abilities as someone at work said I know everything your thinking with no words.

 

This experience at 20 years old and full into Internal martial arts from 16 years of age.Just happened. It literally took me years of research of all modalities western and eastern to make some sense of what had happened to me.

 

Years latter I read the secret of the golden flower and finally had my answer and verification. If I had been with a Taoist master he or she could have directed me to high  levels at a very young age.

 

To this day because of this experience and after reading the golden flower I trained very hard with skilled authenticate teachers and now I am a linage holder of Dragon Gate Long Men Pei of Wudang mountain.

[CityHermit!]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:32 AM, Cheshire Cat said:

This thread is about an almost always forgotten chapter in the famous book "The Secret of The Golden Flower": chapter 6, titled Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light.

After talking about the philosophy, the method and the common errors, the author(s) dedicate an entire chapter to the description of specific spiritual events that accompanies the practice and -most importantly- confirm the effectiveness of what has been done.

 

Why is that important?

In my opinion, there are essentially two reasons that gives to this chapter a tremendous value.

The first one is that the spiritual experience tends by nature to be subjective and  it varies from an individual to another in most schools of practice, therefore when certain milestones are given in a method, it means that they are (or they tend to be) objective measure of spiritual progress to a large extent.

The second reason is that, when it comes to the actual method of "turning the light around", this specific book is interpreted in a variety of ways by different people who often rely on it to complement or explain a method that they already know from different sources. About this matter, it is sufficient to mention the Dan-Tien cultivation approach, the Ch'an sitting approach, the third eye meditation approach and the MCO approach which complement or explain the practice (even in the texts itself, given that there are at least 3 different versions of it available in translation, and maybe more in original language).

 

Nonetheless, this chapter  Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light is generally consistent in different versions and it is -at this point- evident that it could be effectively used to determine  the true original method of Turning the Light around among the various interpretations given to the text.

 

I will refer, copy and paste from this beautiful website The Secret of The Golden Flower to extract the relevant parts present in all of the available versions of the text and I will ignore the parts which are embedded with philosophies and that are open to interpretations.

 

 

 

 

Now, can you talk a little bit about your experiences with those things while practicing the Golden Flower Method? And how do you actually cultivate the golden flower?

I've focused less on that text than the Celestial Mechanism described in the text and in others before it.

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

It is not easy to produce the true seed from the golden nectar. This seed will grow in the cavity of vitality (under the navel) into a yellow stem which will blossom and bear fruit. Its flower is the light of vitality which manifests in front of the practiser. This flower has both stamen and pistil which will unite to form a fruit. If the practiser does not know how to unite them the flower will be sterile and will not bear fruit, for it will be illusory. Its pistil is the light of vitality that comes from nature-vitality and its stamen is the golden light that arises from life- vitality.

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

[Phoenix3]

Guys, does turning the light around involve going cross eyed? It feels a little strange.

 

Also, do I have to wear my glasses while doing this, as my eyes are weak.

[voidisyinyang]

4 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

Guys, does turning the light around involve going cross eyed? It feels a little strange.

 

Also, do I have to wear my glasses while doing this, as my eyes are weak.

 

To fix the eyes, the energy has to be stored up. Going cross eyed is also not necessary as you can rely on rotating the eyes as well.

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/07/on-golden-nectar-dragonmercury-is-both.html

See my new blog post for more details.

 

[Aetherous]

Unfortunately, to me it seems like these signs of verification can lead almost anyone to assume they've experienced them....when they haven't. They're too poetically written, vague, and aren't clear enough for the anyone but the most discerning and self-critical practitioner to judge their own progress.

 

Consider Lu Dongbin's qualifications in the first line: "One cannot receive these signs if one ... does not relinquish arrogance". For instance, the arrogance of thinking one understands the book.

In my view (which may be wrong), even most people reading the book don't know what the light is. Without knowing what the light is, it's never turned around, and signs of verification never happen.

[Rwo]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

To fix the eyes, the energy has to be stored up. Going cross eyed is also not necessary as you can rely on rotating the eyes as well.

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/07/on-golden-nectar-dragonmercury-is-both.html

See my new blog post for more details.

 

This blog has a lots of good info BUT iTS SUCH A HUGE MESS !

Please could you do something?

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

Without knowing what the light is, it's never turned around, and signs of verification never happen.

Thats true. Btw, one of my students obtained 2 last signs above a month ago.

 

1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

Consider Lu Dongbin's qualifications in the first line: "One cannot receive these signs if one ... does not relinquish arrogance". For instance, the arrogance of thinking one understands the book.

That is also true...but ....the translator of this site did a good job in general, but misunderstood some key points. 

"One cannot receive these signs if one does not have a high valuation, does not relinquish arrogance and does not practice the teaching." Its a wrong translation, plus the translator did not recognize a quote.

 

In fact the sentence just says : {You cant be frivolous in your duty (of practice),  'i will practice what you said'}, the last quoted part being a quote of a student replying to Confucius  :  "Though I am deficient in intelligence and vigor, I will make it my business to practice this lesson."

 

So the meaning is about succeeding through hard practice, lack of talent notwithstanding.

 

[voidisyinyang]

5 hours ago, Rwo said:

This blog has a lots of good info BUT iTS SUCH A HUGE MESS !

Please could you do something?

Quote

 

Recently on a collaborative/forest service field tour, participants were shown some fir trees with root rot. The group was told that the forest was “too dense” and thus the trees had become susceptible to root rot. The solution, of course, was to log (read kill) the fir trees so they would not succumb to root rot and die.

When I asked the collaborative members and agency personal assembled, “What was the ecological role of root rot in the ecosystem?”, I got perplexed blank stares.

It appeared that no one had ever considered such a question. Yet here they were anxious to log the forest based on the assumption that root rot killing trees was something to control or remove from the forest ecosystem.

 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/27/let-forests-restore-themselves/

[voidisyinyang]

On 7/29/2018 at 10:09 AM, Rwo said:

This blog has a lots of good info BUT iTS SUCH A HUGE MESS !

Please could you do something?

 

People often ask how does [insert secret real name of real ancient Chinese secrets] unify the yin and yang?

In Neidan this is called "Extracting Lead to Replenish Mercury." Lead is then translated as vitality or qi and mercury originates from original spirit or yuan shen.

And so first of all in meditation, the shen must be visualized as below the jing - or the fire below the water - so that steam is created. This is called turning the Red Dragon into the Green Dragon - so that the power of the shen, the liver qi, turns into wisdom as the female energy (external red yang goes internal green).

Secondly ONLY the Quick Fire breathing or Warrior breathing has the power to sublimate the Lead - so that the black water is turned into the white tiger as True Lead - going into the brain. The pressure in the brain increases and this overflows as the Golden Nectar, after the white tiger combines with the Shen and qi that emanates from the heart, and out of the pineal gland.

Thirdly - this White Tiger then overflows as ambrosia - the golden nectar - which contains shen and qi - as the hidden yang within the yin. And so at first the green dragon merged with the black tiger to create the white tiger - and now the white tiger turns back into the red dragon - meaning the Lead functions in the House of Li, the Fire.

So this is the secret of how Dragon goes into Tiger and Tiger goes into Dragon - so that the yang qi returns as with "substance" - the overflowing ambrosia - and when swallowed, creates great heat in the pit of the stomach, which is then absorbed back into the small intestines.

Fourthly - then the qi of Mercury through this process is replenished - so then the alchemical pill as the undivided yin-yang elixir then is restored, once the jing as yin qi is restored to a 16 year old - and thus the middle tan-t'ien opens up as the Yellow Sprouts (the Absolute Void of the T'ai Chi) and the light as shen then issues forth as the mysterious valley. (Mysterious is the yang qi, Valley is the yin qi). And so the central channel opens up as the three tan-t'iens working together.

Fifthly - at this stage - it is now chapter 6 of Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality - the yin-yang (dragon-tiger qi) has to be crystallized to turn the yuan qi into shen - and thus achieve "cold storage" as the "inner cell" of the lower tan t'ien - to store the qi for safe keeping. This is achieved by the two eyes, each one being (left) dragon and right (tiger) - and so when rotated - this activates the shen-qi unification. Rotating to the right, raises up the shen-qi to open up the third eye. Rotating to the left, then stores the qi back into the inner cell of the lower tan-t'ien. And thus as the yuan qi continues to build up, then the Yuan shen continues to build up and the light gets stronger, seen externally, outside the body.

Six: - then the Golden Nectar as the Yang Qi has to keep developing, thereby increasing the the Light of Vitality or Light of the Lead, from the Tiger, the Water. And so the first light of the T'ai Chi, is the first half of enlightenment. It creates the Yin Shen - and so a person at this stage will be a ghost immortal. The 2nd half first creates golden light and so achieves true immortality - of the yang shen, to preserve a new body. This body can be seen by others - but in the end it returns back to original vitality or "yuan Qi" which is the Mother of Shen.

 

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

Well I am not sure I could follow instructions like that personally.

 

But let me ask you what concrete results have happened to you.   As you walk around town what is changed ?

Thanks.

[Wu Ming Jen]

On 7/29/2018 at 4:46 AM, Phoenix3 said:

Guys, does turning the light around involve going cross eyed? It feels a little strange.

 

Also, do I have to wear my glasses while doing this, as my eyes are weak.

All day long we use our light of awareness to shine the outside world. Turn the light around to the internal body/ world / unseen this is done with no eyes.

[Wu Ming Jen]

All the words void is using are metaphors and are all actual  physical transmutation.The same simple understanding have many, many different ways to describe the same thing

 

True lead is the original awareness (Shen) that sinks to the bottom. True mercury is acquired awareness ( shen) that rises to the top and is unstable. Cause what sinks to float and what floats to sink same as water and fire or dragon and tiger or yin and yang 

 

Basically turn the power over to the true self and not the acquired self and life is much better.

 

There are many errors of what terms actually mean with void (sorry dude)

[voidisyinyang]

4 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

There are many errors of what terms actually mean with void (sorry dude)

No need to get emotional (being sorry) as you have made an accusation without any evidence and so your claim has no substance.

 

So let's be clear without resorting to vague metaphors. True lead (tiger) is yang qi. True mecury (tiger) is yin qi. The Hun Soul and Po Soul as manifestions are still yin shen. What makes this alchemy is they have to copulate - which means in meditation using the Shen spirit - the "red dragon" (which is the eyes open as  yang) causes the yin qi (the dragon) to leave the body and get lost. So the light (shen) has to be "turned around" so that the red dragon has wisdom as the green dragon - meaning the yin qi then ionizes the yin jing (water) so that the black tiger (kidney water) turns into white tiger (the yang qi) that rises up.

 

Now the real secret is there is a DOUBLE inversion - which means that yang qi now has to go back down the front to replenish the yin qi - (but it now has substance). So this is called Semen-mercury - or Dragon-Lead - which is to say as Green Dragon the yin goes into the yang - and now the White Tiger (with silver in it) returns to the Red Dragon - called White Blood. In other words the yang qi has to go down the front. The pressure builds up in the skull, as cerebrospinal fluid and then overflows out of the sinus cavity and then down the throat, as the ambrosia or nectar. As this builds up, then it is "Golden Nectar."

 

So unlike Western thinking - we have to realize in alchemy - the yin goes into yang and then the yang goes into yin. And so this only happens without any emotion - and so the elixir is also now the Yuan Qi - that returns to the lower tan t'ien. When the Ambrosia (Golden Nectar) is swallowed, this created great heat in the pit of the stomach and the qi is absorbed back into the small intestine where it is stored. It is Golden because in the pineal gland, the Shen and Qi are infused into the cerebrospinal fluid. The lecithin (of semen) is what, when ionized, bypasses the blood brain barrier and also myelinates the neurons. The neurons are made up of collagen as microtubules, that are quantum coherent - and therefore the Yuan Qi is actually reverse time energy (the hidden momentum of the Shen).

 

This is why the Yang Shen returns back to the Yuan Qi - because light is powered by relativistic mass - aka alchemy is verified by relativistic quantum science (that also acknowledges the secret powers of alchemy: precognition, telepathy, telekinesis, levitation, remote viewing, longevity, etc.).

 

Why is this teaching so rare? It requires celibacy first of all. Any time the eyes are open - then the spirit can engage with forms at light speed causing subconscious blockages .

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

45 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

All the words void is using are metaphors and are all actual  physical transmutation.The same simple understanding have many, many different ways to describe the same thing

 

True lead is the original awareness (Shen) that sinks to the bottom. True mercury is acquired awareness ( shen) that rises to the top and is unstable. Cause what sinks to float and what floats to sink same as water and fire or dragon and tiger or yin and yang 

 

Basically turn the power over to the true self and not the acquired self and life is much better.

 

There are many errors of what terms actually mean with void (sorry dude)

Tai Chi Chüan: Harmonizing Taoist Belief and Practice - Jeaneane D. Fowler, Shifu Keith Ewers ALSO GIVES THIS REVERTED ELIXIR SECRET:

Quote

The triagram Li is fire and predominantly yang, but the important middle line is yin, and so the Dragon is female. It is the yin essence in the yang, water in fire, the female in the male, the moon in the sun. It is referred to as Green Dragon....It is water that rises, being heated, and is therefore fiery but yielding, rising to Heaven.      The triagram K'an/Kan is Water and predominantly yin and female. But the middle line is yang and alchemically it is the yang in the yin, the White Tiger, ....its function is to descend to Earth when fire reacts with it. It is the fire in the water.

So what is being referred to - is "normally" the mercury as yin qi - to quote Wu Ming Jen

Quote

rises to the top and is unstable.

This is the liver qi that goes out of the eyes with the eyes open.

So as Green Dragon - it first is reversed to go back down - and then it rises being heated - up the back. It is connected with the black tiger - so that the mercury now has substance as white tiger (the silver hidden in the lead).
 

Quote

 

Cause what sinks to float and what floats to sink same as water and fire or dragon and tiger or yin and yang

 

 

 

So - what "normally" sinks is Black tiger as water - and so it has to then rise up the back but then - it goes back down the front as the white tiger (see highlighted colored quotes above).

 

So to reference Pregadio's translation of Awakening to Reality:

 

Quote

Reverted Elixir is formed by joining the two breaths (yin and yang qi) and therefore called the Male Tiger or True Lead and Female Dragon or True Mercury.

 

So normally the tiger is female and the dragon is male.

So Reverted Elixir is a double inversion as undivided yin-yang.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[rideforever]

The OP has some good ideas, however it will not be easy to find them.   If you can find a teacher who before you start can confirm your state, and knows his own.   You would find one teacher in a thousand who can do this.  

 

In terms of the 3 statement signs of verification, as far as I can make out :

 

1. This is simply absorption in any state through any practice; you go deep and the world is distant.

2. Experiencing "light" inside the head is a sign of energy cultivation is that area which produces a number of phenomena, one is a subtle sound/ vibration can be heard which is "Om" (Om is an approximation of the sound); the second type of phenomena is the feeling of a light (meaning your head feels lit up, as you sit in meditation you can see the light glowing from this part of the body although it is ethereal).   I am sure there are other phenomena as well.
3. I don't know what 3 means, but certainly if you work with the body during meditation then many things of this ilk can happen, also the breathing can become quite strange and appear to stop.  But I am not certain that this is what the author means.

 

Which is all very nice however these are circumstantial effects; and the true verification is that you have awakened at the mid-eyebrow point.   Meaning you are present without object, and you have a stable permanent identity inhabitint this area.

[voidisyinyang]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

The OP has some good ideas, however it will not be easy to find them.   If you can find a teacher who before you start can confirm your state, and knows his own.   You would find one teacher in a thousand who can do this.  

 

In terms of the 3 statement signs of verification, as far as I can make out :

 

1. This is simply absorption in any state through any practice; you go deep and the world is distant.

2. Experiencing "light" inside the head is a sign of energy cultivation is that area which produces a number of phenomena, one is a subtle sound/ vibration can be heard which is "Om" (Om is an approximation of the sound); the second type of phenomena is the feeling of a light (meaning your head feels lit up, as you sit in meditation you can see the light glowing from this part of the body although it is ethereal).   I am sure there are other phenomena as well.
3. I don't know what 3 means, but certainly if you work with the body during meditation then many things of this ilk can happen, also the breathing can become quite strange and appear to stop.  But I am not certain that this is what the author means.

 

Which is all very nice however these are circumstantial effects; and the true verification is that you have awakened at the mid-eyebrow point.   Meaning you are present without object, and you have a stable permanent identity inhabitint this area.

 

if you just see light internally - that's just "yang qi" manifesting - also called the relative void. Once the qi builds up then you see light externally - called the "absolute void."

The center of the brain - the pineal gland - opens up with the mysterious gate - and this only happens after the jing is restored - after the yin qi is built up so that the yuan qi is activated.

The Golden Light only starts after the yang qi keeps building up - via the golden nectar. So first the yin qi (mercury) has to be replenished back into the lower tan t'ien (via the yang qi as substance going down as ambrosia). Then the light of inner nature manifests - this is white light as the moon - and so is the T'ai Chi - seen externally - this is the third eye opening up.

Then celibacy has to be maintained and more yang qi stored up and purified - and then more colors of light are seen and then the golden light develops.

The golden flower is then the combination of the light of the yuan shen - the moon light - from the yin qi - and then the light of the vitality (the yang qi) - creating the yang shen.

So what happens is the light issues forth from the heart once the yang qi develops - via the middle tan t'ien. So after the yin qi or mercury is replenished.

So if celibacy is not maintained - then the light goes away - as the qi gets lost - and the heart has to be purified - since the light is going out of the eyes with the eyes open. The shen will then cause loss of celibacy.

So unless the qi keeps being stored up - and purified via the shen - then the light does increase.

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

We cant stop here! This is Nei Dan country!

 

*gets out of the vehicle waving haphazardly in the air with a flyswatter mumbling something about ”those fucking pigs are everywhere” and ducking for cover*

[Wu Ming Jen]

6 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Tai Chi Chüan: Harmonizing Taoist Belief and Practice - Jeaneane D. Fowler, Shifu Keith Ewers ALSO GIVES THIS REVERTED ELIXIR SECRET:

 

So what is being referred to - is "normally" the mercury as yin qi - to quote Wu Ming Jen

This is the liver qi that goes out of the eyes with the eyes open.

So as Green Dragon - it first is reversed to go back down - and then it rises being heated - up the back. It is connected with the black tiger - so that the mercury now has substance as white tiger (the silver hidden in the lead).
 

So - what "normally" sinks is Black tiger as water - and so it has to then rise up the back but then - it goes back down the front as the white tiger (see highlighted colored quotes above).

 

So to reference Pregadio's translation of Awakening to Reality:

 

 

So normally the tiger is female and the dragon is male.

So Reverted Elixir is a double inversion as undivided yin-yang.

 

 

The classics word for word I understand. lets say the same thing a different way, just for fun

 

The Yuan Shen is original spirit; it does not recognize time or place.  The Shi Shen is intelligent spirit.  At the beginning of human life there is no existence of a Shi Shen or intelligent self.  When humans learn the access to the material world this gives birth to the Shi Shen.  Humans are meant to evolve from the innocence of a newborn baby, to the intelligence of youth, and on to the wisdom of the peak power of the Shi Shen.  At the same time Shi Shen is evolving, Yuan Shen starts from a birth of spooky capabilities and evolves towards numbness or unawareness of its true ability in most people.  Yuan Shen and Shi Shen are like master and servant living in the same room with their position and power changing all the time.  The wise man learns to be a dummy and the intelligent man fights for an empty statue of “self.”

 

Sometimes Shi Shen says things that may conflict with the Yuan Shen.  That is, the mind conflicts with the original spirit.  The Yuan Shen however, never gives up on the pursuit for purity.  The original spirit is kindness, which we never give up.  However; the Shi Shen sometimes contradicts this original spirit.  The Shi Shen may not allow the Yuan Shen to speak or act freely.  We must learn to live and let live!  Live and let live is equal to unconditional love.  Once you are able to love unconditionally then you will break out of the cycle of living in the expectations of others.  Learn to forgive yourself of being a victim.  Only then can you overpower your pains and aches.  Stupid people look for perfection in themselves, others and the world.  Life is not perfect!  If you always try to defend yourself for being a victim, then you are already a victim again.  There is no need to defend yourself!  Give up the will or desire to “win.”   Give up the fear of death.  There is no need for offense or defense.  Life is merely a puzzle.  Welcome your opportunity to solve this puzzle.  Always look for the other side, the dialectic side of "me".  If you can know one side of “me” then you can know other side of "me".  Strive to understand the opposite of what you are feeling.

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is a great conversation Jing is not considered sexual energy because sexual energy is neutral and belongs to having a physical body which is not forever. Jing is vitality. a non physical energy it has no form and can not be found.

 

So a funny thing happens when one begins the Taoist methods of cultivation they will feel sexually charged just because of the methods so then people get instantly confused, they can find their body parts and are like this is it!!!

 

Then they start reading about neidan and get it all confused with what they can touch. The original Shen the clear mind emerges with actual practice of neidan passed on by a Master. Sex or no sex has absolutely nothing to do with the life and death solving methods of neidan.  I only mention this because this conversation is pointing directly this error.

[rideforever]

5 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

 

So, what is your personal experience of life as you walk down the street then after all these practices ?   What has been the change, benefit ?

[voidisyinyang]

18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

So, what is your personal experience of life as you walk down the street then after all these practices ?   What has been the change, benefit ?

Since 2000, due to Chunyi Lin's "empowerment" and my own training - what he called my "enlightenment experience" - I have had permanent magnetic-bliss emanating from the pineal gland - out of the heart and lower tan-t'ien. I've had lots of other experiences as well - precognition, telepathy, telekinesis, strong healing, psychic tantra, seeing ghosts; and smelling cancer (nonlocally), answers to lots of practical questions and other insights, etc.

Edited July 31, 2018 by voidisyinyang