LHBF somewhat deceased thread

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[GreytoWhite]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:50 AM, rideforever said:

This 7hr video I believe is a transmission of the inner movements of Liuhe Bafa, shown in a Yiquan style (standing with small movements), by Wu Yinghua (or Yinghui).
1. Inner Exercises Drills, 2. Form and its Tuition, 3. Applications

 

I think this is Wu Yihui's son-in-law demonstrating and his son doing the talking.

 

I really like Mok Kei Fai and Choi Wai Lun's demos. Don't forget about David Chan if you want to look into the unification of Yiquan and LHBF or the Han family Yiquan guys.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

I'm sure those vids are cool but the traditional Yiquan training requires 2 hours a day of static exercise - for 2 years I think - before any movements are introduced.

 

[lifeforce]

How's the training going rideforever ?

Liuhebafa is a beautiful art.

I really like this version. Wouldn't mind trying to learn this myself.

As someone who's practiced xingyi and yiquan (and a little taiji and bagua), it might be possible. 

https://youtu.be/kJjHvS7O4-Q

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[Fa Xin]

54 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

 

 

Nice, I remember seeing this video a couple years ago and couldnt find it since. thanks for posting.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Fa Xin

[lifeforce]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

@GreytoWhite

.... was talking about David Chan (1950-2012) lived 62 years, not long.
Always check the details.
Also saw this pushing hands video of DC, he appears to be doing not very much with the hands, and then generating large Fajin and whacking the student against the wall.   Yes lots of Fajin.   

But I am primarily concerned with immortality, spirituality, naturalness, longevity, truth, arrow to the Source, the art, beauty.

And I don't see it here.

Fajin does absolutely not make you immortal nor healthy.
Perhaps there are other videos of him more artistic ?
( - but this group in the PI, I salute their efforts to make regenerate LHBF - )

 

 

There may be more factors involved in his shortened life. However, I've noticed a few high profile internal master's who don't live long. I've suspected it may be related to the release of fajin on a regular basis. I can't be entirely sure though. I'll have to do some more research on it.

My goal, if you could call it that, is longevity. I want to grow old gracefully, in the best health I can.

I see the internal arts as crucial to this goal. Of course, diet, mental well being and genetics play a big part.

In the xingyi lineage I practice in, folks were living until 100 years of age, 90's were very common. Plus they didn't deterioate much as they aged. I'm talking good eyesight and hearing, flexibility and strength, virus resistance up until their last days. Dying peacefully when their time is up.

Some things that are emphasized in their training is NOT hitting bags, pads. Fajin is non-existent. All movements, striking, forms, standing are internalised to the maximum in a process which is constantly ongoing. Softness and relaxation. Far too many videos I see in xingyi look like karate.

That's why I like the look of LHBF. It takes the internalisation to beyond what I've ever seen, maybe yiquan is similar in this respect.

 

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

So, which is the lineage that you train in and has all these benefits ?

Let's take a look at them ?

 

 

https://youtu.be/YIFDewOelkE. 

 

https://youtu.be/gxzYxi9fnL4

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

Wang Ji Wu lineage xingyi. Longevity of it's practitioners is the main reason I train.

Edited March 9, 2019 by lifeforce

[Fa Xin]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:32 AM, lifeforce said:

https://youtu.be/YIFDewOelkE. 

 

https://youtu.be/gxzYxi9fnL4

 

I like the continuous flow, no starting and stopping. 

[lifeforce]

On 09/03/2019 at 12:23 PM, rideforever said:

My opinion is that without proper knowledge of the internal energetics of LHBF there is a risk of wrongly training the energies,and that worries me

 

A conversation I had many years back with someone who practiced LHBF may shed some light on the energetic aspect.

He said that when practicing the form, or any of the associated neigong, your focus was on feeling as if water was resisting you. Hence the nickname "water-boxing" From this there is a definite crossover with yiquan, in particular the practice of of shili which I have some experience with. 

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

In LHBF I think they don't know, and whatever they train may be harmful as a result.

 

Seeing as this art has allegedly been around a lot longer than taiji, I think they actually DO know.

Have you heard of anyone who has 'harmed' themselves by practicing LHBF?

 

1. Wang Xiangzhai, the creator of Yiquan, made a public statement regarding Wu Yihui, the modern reformer of Liuhebafa, in 1928 saying, "I have traveled across the country in research, engaging over a thousand people in martial combat, there have been only 3 people I could not defeat, namely Hunan's Xie Tiefu, Fujian's Fang Yizhuang and Shanghai's Wu Yihui."

 

2. During the the 9^th century, the Daoist sage, Chen Xi Yi (Chen Tuan) of the Hua Shan mountains, who was reknown for his methods of cultivating health and longevity, developed a set of movements known as Liu He Ba Fa, the “six harmonies and eight methods” of mind and intention. Recognized as one of the most prestigious and excellent forms of internal art, the moves of Liu He Ba Fa are designed to stimulate and massage the internal organs, while exercising the spine. This form consists of 66 movements, which are often noted for their graceful, spiral turning. These movements are an 'intensifier' of the turning and stretching effects that are already evident through the practice of Daoist Internal Arts. Movement originating from the spine forms the essence of Liu He Ba Fa, and this art is most beneficial to students who have already developed some degree of spinal articulation through practice in other Daoist Arts.

 

3. The newly acquired Hua Shan Mountains became the training grounds for many of Chen Tuan's practices. It was here that he developed Liu He Ba Fa, otherwise known as “Six Harmonies Eight Methods.” It is said that Chen Tuan's earlier fascination with water deeply influenced the movement and power used in Liu He Ba Fa. The essence of this style is to demonstrate how energy becomes matter which will eventually return back to its original state of energy.

 

There's plenty of positive feedback around if you do some digging. Like I mentioned earlier, my 17 years xingyi experience and a little yiquan would probably stand me in good stead pursuing this.

Just because you have chosen to do Chen, doesn't mean that other arts have faults, however hard you look to find them. Each has it's own merits. We all have our own path and I'm glad that you started this topic as it's given me a lot to mull over.

 

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Anyway, dying at 62 is not in my plans.

This world is messy, so it makes sense to stick to Chen.
I truly wish I had found something better, I did look.
Any if you or anyone does find something concrete please let me know

 

I plan on being around, and healthy, a lot longer than 62 also.

I still have a theory that issuing ridiculous amounts of fajin may have something to do with these masters dying early.

Chen is a really good choice, it may turn out to be the best thing for you. For me, I might just stick with my xingyi and yiquan. It's what I know best and has served me well enough so far.

Best wishes and good luck with your practices.

[lifeforce]

17 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Yiquan is the way to go for fans of Wang Xiangzhai, it's pretty much idiot proof and requires time and a lot of standing.   Perhaps you could go from there into the LHBF form, that might work.

For me personally it is not artful enough and not internal enough and not spiritual enough.

I don't want to die being the best fighter in the world, because I don't want to die, and my practices have to help me in that regard.

Yiquan's shili practice looks very similar to the movement in LHBF form. I believe there's crossover material there. So many of the internals compliment each other.

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[GreytoWhite]

Oh man - no wonder you're confused. You're doing 10,000 things at once and are learning from DVDs. If you don't already have a live instructor near you go get one or move to where one is. I've got transmissions from two different lineages now one has xingyi and bagua and the other I'm only learning bagua - both do things differently. I also learned Chen village method about 10 years ago and have gone around to touch hands (not always fight) with people in all kindsa different styles including Aikido, Eskrima, Silat, I Liq Chuan, Han family Yiquan, Yang taiji, and Chen Practical Method. Some things are the same - a LOT is different. Don't think you're building the same skill in Chen as you will in Liuhebafa - probably won't even get the same flavor from LHBF teacher to LHBF teacher dependent on their other experience. Even within my own lineages the instructors express their styles differently.

 

 

[OldDog]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:50 AM, Fa Xin said:

I like the continuous flow, no starting and stopping. 

 

Other internal forms can be practiced in this manner. Often times in taiji the starting and stopping is unintentional. It came with learning the form in sections. Logical breakpoints were identified for teaching purposes. My teachers usually started and ended with a complete form, regardless of the ability of the student to keep up. In between, sections of the form were worked on for correction. But by emphasising the full form, the continuity of flow was conveyed.

 

I actually had one instructor tell me that it was important in forms competition to have a slight pause between movements so the judges could assess posture. I did not buy that. I figured if they were judges they would be able to observe correct posture and alignment even while in transition.

 

Still, the advice was helpful in that it helped me me develop a better sense of what competition was all about.  I did not compete thereafter.

 

btw ... I did not know there was much interest or practice in LHBF. Interesting to see.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by OldDog
Grammar error

[Fa Xin]

6 hours ago, OldDog said:

 

Other internal forms can be practiced in this manner. Often times in taiji the starting and stopping is unintentional. It came with learning the form in sections. Logical breakpoints were identified for teaching purposes. My teachers usually started and ended with a complete form, regardless of the ability of the student to keep up. In between, sections of the form were worked on for correction. But by emphasising the full form, the continuity of flow was conveyed.

 

I actually had one instructor tell me that it was important in forms competition to have a slight pause between movements so the judges could assess posture. I did not buy that. I figured if they were judges they would be able to observe correct posture and alignment even while in transition.

 

Still, the advice was helpful in that it helped me me develop a better sense of what competition was all about.  I did not compete thereafter.

 

btw ... I did not know there was much interest or practice in LHBF. Interesting to see.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I do some pauses with my Tai chi forms too. And sometimes with my Xingyi I pause and hold San ti. But my Bagua practice is always moving 😀

 

Now that I think of it, my Tai chi form has very subtle differences each time I practice - I feel it reflects my mood. Sometimes it’s very very slow, other times I will add Fajin. I’ve even done it fast like a Shaolin form. And backwards too! How can you learn the material unless you play with it 😁

[OldDog]

15 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

How can you learn the material unless you play with it.

 

True enough ... and how can you learn your limits without practice in different ways.