LHBF somewhat deceased thread

[lifeforce]

On 11/03/2019 at 8:21 PM, lifeforce said:

Yiquan's shili practice looks very similar to the movement in LHBF form. I believe there's crossover material there. So many of the internals compliment each other.

 

Well, I've had confirmation of my theory. I just KNEW there was a connection.

My yiquan teacher (who also happens to teach me xingyi), travels regularly to Hong Kong where he learns Han Xingyuan branch of yiquan. The Han brothers were the students who studied the most with the founder of yiquan, Wang Xiangzhai, and their branch is considered pure to the original. So it's held in very high regard. When I mentioned my interest in LHBF he told me what he knows.

In Hong Kong, LHBF lineage holder Li Zhong became concerned when he noticed that the pure LHBF form was being diluted with aspects of xingyi, bagua and taiji and wished to restore LHBF back to its original intention. He enlisted the help of yiquan master Han Xingyuan who helped soften the form and to take out the elements of xingyi, bagua and taiji.

My teacher then went on to tell me that he has been learning LHBF also and that he would teach me on one condition:

That I drop my xingyi altogether and focus solely on LHBF and yiquan. He has himself stopped his own xingyi practice.

I've known my teacher for 15 years now and have enormous trust and respect for him. I've enjoyed learning and practicing xingyi but I can definitely see huge benefits in switching to LHBF. So, that's it. A new adventure awaits and I'm looking forward to learning this incredibly beautiful art.

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[rideforever]

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aaedoc.pub_fundamentals-of-dachengquanpdf.pdf

Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[GreytoWhite]

From a trusted LHBF and practitioner of other arts he says that the focus on the 4 ends (feet and hands) in taiji will keep you from attaining the 9 Joints 5 Hearts method. The same person also says that training in xingyi and bagua will most likely help you with your LHBF. Granted, what kind of xingyi and bagua are we talking about? Jiang Rong Qiao was known to have exchanged arts with Chen Yiren and at his Hong Kong school they still teach the Jiang bagua.

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[Fa Xin]

Xingyi has a high level of internal cultivation. Don’t let the speed of the practice fool you. 

[Earl Grey]

On 3/7/2019 at 11:36 PM, GreytoWhite said:

 

I think this is Wu Yihui's son-in-law demonstrating and his son doing the talking.

 

I really like Mok Kei Fai and Choi Wai Lun's demos. Don't forget about David Chan if you want to look into the unification of Yiquan and LHBF or the Han family Yiquan guys.

 

 

 

This is my teacher's home as this is his channel and this lineage is indeed legitimate. The video is of JR Rodriguez, his martial son, who is one of the two masters in the lineage because his biological sons weren't interested. JR is the only one teaching because Dylan is only teaching his own sons.

 

On 3/9/2019 at 7:48 PM, lifeforce said:

There may be more factors involved in his shortened life. However, I've noticed a few high profile internal master's who don't live long. I've suspected it may be related to the release of fajin on a regular basis. I can't be entirely sure though. I'll have to do some more research on it.

My goal, if you could call it that, is longevity. I want to grow old gracefully, in the best health I can.

I see the internal arts as crucial to this goal. Of course, diet, mental well being and genetics play a big part.

In the xingyi lineage I practice in, folks were living until 100 years of age, 90's were very common. Plus they didn't deterioate much as they aged. I'm talking good eyesight and hearing, flexibility and strength, virus resistance up until their last days. Dying peacefully when their time is up.

Some things that are emphasized in their training is NOT hitting bags, pads. Fajin is non-existent. All movements, striking, forms, standing are internalised to the maximum in a process which is constantly ongoing. Softness and relaxation. Far too many videos I see in xingyi look like karate.

That's why I like the look of LHBF. It takes the internalisation to beyond what I've ever seen, maybe yiquan is similar in this respect.

 

 

Likewise David Chan is my Shigong, the master of my teacher. He did a lot of Fa Jin and I posted some stories about him already. 

 

We do the Liuhebafa form and training, but also 1/3 of Yi Quan is incorporated for power. 

 

His death was attributed more to bone cancer which was derived from an older version of Iron Shirt/Golden Bell training he was doing that he forbade us from doing later on when he realized it does not mix with our practice. Publicly, he says to everyone do not put your knuckles on flesh when doing Iron Shirt--use your palms only. We have felt the differences in training significantly. 

 

As there are far more stories for training from strength trial and supernatural things from our school that relate to our training, I can't discuss too many of them aside from what has already been posted in the archives of the site years ago, but a PM to me depending on what you want to know might be more appropriate. 

 

Besides: the statement earlier that there seems to be no evidence of internal magnetic comprehension bears no weight on our school because what the eye can see in a video and what the body feels in person are totally separate things. It takes a skilled and properly trained eye to see these things in videos and it isn't even just energetics, it is particular movements and knowing the difference between rooting and grounding.

 

The videos, by the way, are from years ago and the skill by today's standards in our school are low as Master JR himself says that they were just learning Fa Jin when he posted himself and his contemporaries outside of Master David. Teaching in the school is very different now from when Master David was teaching, and skill development is different as he is teaching power, skill, and form simultaneously as opposed to form and skill before power like Master David used to teach. There's also an emphasis only on martial applications as supernatural skills are not of any interest to the lineage, but we have had them. It's my other lineages that embrace the supernatural, and those are for moving beyond martial applications. 

 

From the words of Master JR about an individual LHBF teacher who claimed the lineage of David Chan and JR has no power or legitimacy: “He's welcome to meet us anytime. 😎”

 

So there you have it. If you are in Australia, Philippines, or Thailand, schedule a meeting with JR and see if you want to do an initial test, train with him, or test power with him. He goes between those three countries often and as his primary student I can arrange meetings with people interested in meeting him. Anyone in Taiwan this year may or may not have a chance to see him too based on availability.

 

As a last message from Master JR: "We are still teaching but only to very VERY few select pupils. We claim direct lineage to both Liu He Ba Fa and Yi Quan through Chan Yik Yan and Lieu Peng Chi, who are our Great Grand Masters."

Edited March 29, 2019 by Earl Grey

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

But hey, who knows what people can do with XingYi maybe they really embody the power of the 5 elements.

Yes. 

[Earl Grey]

Lineage is pedigree and power is one measure of skill.

 

People can generate many things that are theirs, but the value of it is highly subjective. The masters of old lineages generated things themselves and the pedigree is what keeps these teachings going. How one creates something and measures value is difficult to self-assess without others to test against.

 

Fighting, healing, and transcending are hardly seen in words alone, and never seen in arguments because the ones who know don’t need to argue. I learn from my lineage because while there’s definitely more to it than just the martial skill, there is the life transformation and health that comes with it and it complements my other lineages.

 

I find that on this site for many people who are in the camp of not needing masters because of modern technology and DVDs, if they were to meet people with actual skill and able to teach them then they would have a very different attitude as opposed to the “there is no need for teachers” battle cry. I also find if they can’t find teachers, or are rejected by said teachers, or find that their own teachers are frauds or unqualified that they seek to find ways to disqualify other teachers and those who are their students.

 

The easiest measure of skill happens in person when touching hands or making eye contact, or in their character and interaction with others and respect for them.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Earl Grey

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

I find that on this site for many people who are in the camp of not needing masters because of modern technology and DVDs, if they were to meet people with actual skill and able to teach them then they would have a very different attitude as opposed to the “there is no need for teachers” battle cry.

 

Yes to this !

There was one particular person who I trained with who showed me the true power of internal arts. It was incredible and scary at the same time. 

[Earl Grey]

Yes, real teachers have terrifying power, but are wonderful beings because of their cultivation.

 

Push hands is not a game because it actually has energetic value to it. Few people on this forum talk about it let alone know about it or have quality training and it shows in the level of understanding of posts here, especially nowadays with many former members gone. Fighting itself is a game because it’s juvenile and is the expression of unaware and un-evolved beings.

 

A lad once thought he was tough because he competed in MMA. He met my teacher in Manila and my teacher played with him like a parent and a child throwing a tantrum, which was exactly that based off of that lad’s ego. I did the same to a drunk once two years ago and the drunk cried about how I “was so mean” for “hurting” him when I merely refused to allow him any chance to strike me with his limbs. Sensing hands came out naturally in that situation.

 

Sensing hands is an exchange in energy and great for both control and understanding your own energy projection. Wang Xiangzhai once shook hands with another challenger while walking into a stadium and they maintained their grip the whole time until the opponent fell suddenly. This was just before the match. They were already engaged in sensing hands in a way nobody else could see without that level of skill.

 

So if you have a real adept in your life, you may already be learning without realizing it.

[Zork]

11 hours ago, rideforever said:

Often true secrets in lineages are never given to students; they are saved for the sons to continue the family business. 

Yes that is true sometimes but doesn't this also happen if you learn from dvds? I mean even if someone does have intention to teach you deeper aspects of the art how will he/she do that through a non interactive medium?

 

15 hours ago, rideforever said:

But power .... is not what I need, nor lineage, nor fighting any more.

 

11 hours ago, rideforever said:

Pushing hands is a game, fighting is not a game - I heard that once.

If you don't need fighting ability why do you care if pushing hands is a "game" or not?

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[Earl Grey]

43 minutes ago, rideforever said:

My interest is the Real, the existential, the immortal.   And practice is a means to that end, fighting is truth it is confrontation with reality, as a tool - it saves you from mentalising your learning.   Fighting is fighting, if you have been in a fight or a war, you see how things are.  There are no rules, there is the will to kill, to win, at any cost, using any method, using deceit.

I have many things to learn, and in the future will rejoin a Taiji group here.

My teacher is my teacher, he is a teacher of existence, not of following, but of entering, of becoming.   Of having the will to be.   That is the foundation of my practice and my life and enters into all activities, like Taiji.

Being taught is only a small beginning.   It is only when you do it yourself that you are suddenly woken up, and confronted with this.   What can I make of this ?   What shall I do with this ?   Suddenly life is alive, it tears something into you.  You have the choice, to do it, or not to do it.  There are no excuses.   There is just you, and the will to live, or not to.  "Lessons" are then seen as getting into a comfortable bed, break time, between encountering life itself.

It takes years of deep work to create yourself.   If you wish to.   But if you have that wish then 20 years of effort passes by almost unnoticed because when you are climbing a mountain you don't notice the "effort" any more.

This kind of mindset is fresh and alive.  

 

I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying. I also don't understand why you come to learn Liuhebafa and then appear to say fighting is useless and teachers and lineage aren't important but are trying to find someone who can instruct you or a good DVD it seems. 

 

What you're describing as "the real, existential, and immortal" doesn't seem to add up to some of the things you're saying in this thread and responses to what's been said on this page alone. It sounds more like you're still brainstorming or organizing your thoughts, and in my earlier days of training, the seated and standing practices brought all sorts of thoughts and experiences which my teachers helped correlate to the advancing of skill and depth of understanding...which, by the way, is something that is the beginning of awareness, just like awareness is the beginning of true martial skill, and true martial skill is what transforms fighting into healing and how traditionally they learned to heal before fighting.

 

Some people can learn one basic standing or seated meditation and from that the ten thousand things manifest after years and years of constant cultivation. But why spend decades wandering on your own when an opportunity to learn from someone presents itself and doesn't just shorten your journey, but gives you a roadmap and compass? If wandering is your thing, knock yourself out, but you seem to have an end goal and it doesn't appear to be clear with what you say you want versus what you actually want and how you're going about getting it/them. 

 

Anyway, the levels of fighting go beyond just sensing hands or combat for survival.

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Zork said:

Yes that is true sometimes but doesn't this also happen if you learn from dvds? I mean even if someone does have intention to teach you deeper aspects of the art how will he/she do that through a non interactive medium?

 

 

If you don't need fighting ability why do you care if pushing hands is a "game" or not?

 

How does one test skill without others? I practiced for a year away from my training group here and thought my skill got worse. I was relying on my own sense of self and had no one to compare to because I felt weaker. When they saw me at the Christmas gathering, they all noted I had appeared to gain levels of skill beyond what they expected. This was from one-on-one training only with the teacher and with my daily practice before seeing the group.

 

Conversely, another student didn't feel he needed our group and joined a different group who claimed to be better. His tension increased and his form looked sloppy from their "corrections" and his Zhan Zhuang looked like Jim Carrey as Ace Ventura attempting yoga postures, especially what appeared to be him doing downward dog (and he may as well have talked with his ass as well) and calling it ZZ. 

 

Practicing daily with a bad group affects your skill. Practicing on your own with the right instruction and teacher does improve your skill. A DVD is not enough, and this is from me, someone who first learned Flying Phoenix Qigong from the DVDs and then went to Sifu Terry later on to personally learn and improve beyond the skill level from those DVDs. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Zork]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

My interest is the Real, the existential, the immortal.

How do you know what is "real"? This is a serious question!

Advanced practitioners will tell you that this world isn't really "real", whatever you make of this statement.

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

And practice is a means to that end, fighting is truth it is confrontation with reality, as a tool - it saves you from mentalising your learning. 

That is a false analogy. If you are practicing on cooking your violin skills won't get better. So if you get better at fighting you will be just that.

 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 Fighting is fighting, if you have been in a fight or a war, you see how things are. 

And in how many warzones have you been? There are many ways to fight. Gandhi was one hell of a fighter and he couldn't hit a sack.

 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

There are no rules, there is the will to kill, to win, at any cost, using any method, using deceit.

I have many things to learn, and in the future will rejoin a Taiji group here.

My teacher is my teacher, he is a teacher of existence, not of following, but of entering, of becoming.   Of having the will to be.   That is the foundation of my practice and my life and enters into all activities, like Taiji.

Being taught is only a small beginning.   It is only when you do it yourself that you are suddenly woken up, and confronted with this.   What can I make of this ?   What shall I do with this ?   Suddenly life is alive, it tears something into you.  You have the choice, to do it, or not to do it.  There are no excuses.   There is just you, and the will to live, or not to.  "Lessons" are then seen as getting into a comfortable bed, break time, between encountering life itself.

It takes years of deep work to create yourself.   If you wish to.   But if you have that wish then 20 years of effort passes by almost unnoticed because when you are climbing a mountain you don't notice the "effort" any more.

This kind of mindset is fresh and alive. 

All this is contradictory to your own statement that you are not interested in the martial aspect of internal arts. I fail to see how your approach to learning has anything to do with Liuhebafa. The more you post here, the more i get the impression that you are more suited to an external art like jujitsu which has some internal aspects rather than an internal art which might take forever to make you into an efficient fighter.

[Earl Grey]

8 minutes ago, Zork said:

There are many ways to fight. Gandhi was one hell of a fighter and he couldn't hit a sack.

 

This is a fantastic point here. There's an entire book called "Blueprint for Revolution" which talks about fighting with nonviolence against oppressive regimes. The line there that correlates to this is that the conflict hasn't ended, the battlefield has changed. 

 

External styles I've found really reveal the nature of practitioners as much as internal styles reveal the mystique behind their adepts. Some MMA fighters I know are very friendly and respect my internal styles, another spends his days trying to recruit me as a student because he thinks internal styles are just fake and about mind training. The latter lad has never been in a fight outside the ring and was surprised that I know how to handle myself in conflict better than he had assumed. 

 

Liuehebafa, by the way, is a style that is meant to appear weak and compared to Tai Chi, appears to have no internal power. When you feel yourself hit by someone doing Liuhebafa though (even without Fa Jin)...

[Zork]

I must point out to @rideforever that i do not wish to be confrontational in this matter. If you like to pursue Liuhebafa the way you do now with other arts (Dvds et cettera) be my guest and do so, but be warned that this way lies frustration, fakes and scam artists.

Imho you are better suited for external arts. Don't underestimate the value of arts like daito ryu or any external kung fu style taught by a good teacher.

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[Mudfoot]

There is always boxning or something more modern and street-related, if your purpose is to reality test yourself. Nothing like a whack on the head to stay real 🤪

 

With the meditational and energetic practices you have described, why learn more systems when you can deepen the methods you already have? 

[rideforever]

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Edited July 15, 2019 by rideforever

[GreytoWhite]

On 3/30/2019 at 3:31 AM, Zork said:

I must point out to @rideforever that i do not wish to be confrontational in this matter. If you like to pursue Liuhebafa the way you do now with other arts (Dvds et cettera) be my guest and do so, but be warned that this way lies frustration, fakes and scam artists.

Imho you are better suited for external arts. Don't underestimate the value of arts like daito ryu or any external kung fu style taught by a good teacher.

 

I would consider Daito-ryu to be a direct strategy internal martial art. Many of the teachers don't have it or only pieces. It's an attempt to channel baguazhang from Fudo Myo-o. So many parallels between the aiki arts and the internals.